Klipsch Referance Line IV vs Klipsch Reference Line III

[Labbetuss]

Hi folks!

I'm new at this forum, but have been a happy owner of RF7, RF5, RC7 for quite a time I see that Klipsch has come with a new Reference Line series, and I must say that I was a little disappointed at first sight. To be honest I was expecting 10" horn and 12" woofers

But when I took a closer look at their specs, i realized that this is mean shit. The RF-83s has a frequency response from 29hz-21kHZ. 250W cont and 1000W peak. Better motors, drivers, cabinets. Heavier, MUCH deeper an higher, but not as wide

I think these (rf-83) will give RF7 quite a test! Smoother frequecy response and not all those dips in frequencies response because of the big drivers in rf7. I think they will sound better an clearer. But this is offcourse just hypothetic assumptions, but I really look forward to hear these in real life. I am really thinking of changing my system to RF83, RF63 an RC64. This because of lack of midrange and highest frequencies. Offcourse I'm satisfied with the 7's and 5's, but what annoys me is the cheap cabinet, crossover, fronbaffel (inside), and the lack og midrange and highs. I really hope they have done something about this. It would seem like it since the rf83s weigh 52.x kgs, and has three 8" woofers

I am also very curious of how the rc-64 would do against rc7. The rc64 doesn't run as deep as the rc7, but still. It's really huge, just like rf83. The rf7 is only wider, but not at all as deep og high as th rf83.

I really look forward to hear about your thoughts and experience with these speakers! And I hope for some reply

Sincerely yours

KML

[HTADDICT]

I'm covering my ears and going lalalalala, man I just bought six rf-7's, they could come up with a speaker that looks like pamela anderson & sounds like berry white and nora jones singing in the shower together!!!

I'm not looking at buying another darn thing[]

[tsmalls]

I am a dealer in GA, and received my RF-83s today. I have been "a/b" ing the speakers all day since i cracked open the boxes at 9am this morning. They definitely sound different. I would certainly say that the RF-83s sound more natural than the rf-7s. The tweeter is an obvious improvement over the rf-7s tweeter. I mean dramatic, it's much tamer, and has a much smoother sound, no clipping. Now, that being said, the horn and tweeter, being smaller on the RF-83, does not, in my opinion, do as well of a job on the mid-upper range vocal extension as the RF-7. To me, the RF-7 is much louder, and more front stage focused than the rf-83 (one con to a deep cabinet is staging, it's a long way from the speaker to the rear port), on pure vocal tracks, the vocals "breathe" more out of the RF-7s, but that comes at the price of clipping and minor distortion at high volume levels. The RF-83s are more balanced, not overbearing, and subtle, and you can continue to crank the volume, and they stay balanced. Those who like loud, rock, hip-hop, or even pure vocal music, might find it hard to depart from the RF-7 to the RF-83. Those who listen to softer, smoother, more detailed music will certainly appreciate the subtle, but forceful (the three eights can slam!!!) and more natural tones of the rf-83.

[Labbetuss]

Interesting! That was a really good sum up of them I really appreciate it! Still i am a little tempted to try the new ones out hehe How is the midrang in rf83 vs the midrange in rf7? Does the rf83 go deeper than rf7, and how is the mid bass (thats faboulos on rf7) versus the mid bass in rf83?

Can you play louder with the rf83s than the rf7s?

Alot of questions here, but it's interesting to know how different they are

Thank you!

KML

[tsmalls]

IMO, the midrange and midbass are noticeably more "pronounced" on the RF-7. Specwise, the RF-83 does go deeper, not that noticeable though since the 10s on the RF-7 have better extension. You can definitely play the RF-83 louder without the vocals becoming harsh, that's where the improved tweeter comes in, at high volumes, it stays smooth. Also, at high volumes, the 8s maintain "control", and you still can make out all the details with all those soundwaves flying around. The RF-7 was good at this too, but the 8s are a noticeably more controlled at higher volumes. At lower volumes, the RF-7 have a little more presence. All in all, its a tough call, if i had my choice, i would have upgraded the tweeter (this tweeter sounds amazingly sweet, maybe made it 1.75"), kept the 8" horn, and kept the 10s. But those who like more controlled balanced music, will love the arrangement of the RF-83. Now, keep in mind, i just got these, so i am still breaking them in. Overall, I think that Klipsch addressed all the complaints that they had regarding the RF-7, and came up with the RF-83. This is definitely an overall improved speaker, but some will definitely prefer the tad bit more colorful RF-7s.

[Labbetuss]

Thank you!

So would you recommend the rf83s for those who have rf7?

[tsmalls]

I can't answer that question, there are clearly situations when one would prefer the RF-7, and there are situations where one would prefer the RF-83. Overall, the RF-83 is a better speaker. People who listen to them will like them, and have very few complaints, as opposed to the people who originally listened to the RF-7, and had some minor complaints about clipping, rolloff, grill, feet, etc. None of those problems exist on the RF-83. I'll tell you what sounded absolutely amazing, playing both the RF-7s and the RF-83s at the same time, now that was a beautiful blend.

[Zen Traveler]

It sounds like moving the RF-7's to surrounds and using the RF-83's as mains could be a possibility.[] BTW, I have never heard clipping from my RF-7's and I listen to Rock music LOUD.

[Labbetuss]

Thank you again for replying

How is the finish, speaker terminals, crossover, and bass reflex holes on rf-83 comparised to the 7s?

[Labbetuss]

Do you have any "live" pictures that we could take a look at? That would have been awesome

[heresy2guy]

"Now, that being said, the horn and tweeter, being smaller on the RF-83, does not, in my opinion, do as well of a job on the mid-upper range vocal extension as the RF-7."
________________________




The horn on the RF7s didn't come into play until nearly 2,000 hz, so to my knowledge, the mids were really handled by the cones, not the horns (the new RF-83 horn crosses over at about 1,700 hz or so if I recall). Hmmmmm. I think Mdeneen posted something on this topic some time ago. Hang on a sec and let me do a search.

Okay. Found it. Here it is:

05-29-2002, 1:18 AM

mdeneen




Joined on 01-09-2001
Ferndale
Posts 4,343

Re: RF-7s or Cornwalls

I guess to add to the TBrennan logic, an RF-7 is not really a horn speaker, but rather a ccone speaker with a horn for a tweeter. So, whatever its redeeming values are, and I'm sure they are many, they should rightly be compared to cone speakers of whatever brand you like.

If you don't have horns at least down into the midrange, there is simply no "horn-like" quality left to the sound. i.e. "All hat, no cattle!"

All other nonsense aside, HORN drivers sound FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT than cones. And that matters not whether the cone is made from paper, plastic or crushed diamonds. Whether there is one cone playing or 16 cones. The entire principle of a compression driver is radically differenent than a piston driver, and you can hear that.

The sound of both speakers mentioned is fine. They can each satisfy various tastes, but they are simply not "directly comparable" on the same scale. Likewise you can't directly compare a Linn turntable to a Sony SACD player. It doesn't make sense.

"Old Hornies" as the term is used around here, simply hear a completely different "quality" to the sound in horn systems than you can ever get with cones.

Just take a simple taste test: Find your favorite vocal material - record, CD whatever, then play it on a VERY expensive cone system - any system - even one costing $150,000 - Watt-Puppies, Grand Slams, whatever. Then play that same vocal on K-horns, Altecs, JBL horns, or Cornwalls.

I'm not predicting which you will PREFER, but the DIFFERENCE in the "character of the sound" will startle you.

Also, take a look at a frequency chart - - you know - where they plot what makes what sounds at what frequencies. You will see that at 2200 Hz, all the interesting dynamic stuff is over.

So having a "horn" above 2200Hz is in my estimation nothing more than "window dressing" to say, "Hey guys, we are still in the horn speaker business!" Well, c'mon, not REALLY! You could replace that twinky little RF7 tweeter driver with any number of high-quality standard dome tweeters and the system would sound fundamentally the same. Because the fundamental quality of what you are hearing is those cones.

Enjoy which every path you choose and good luck!

mdeneen

------------------
Cheers

Speakers: Altec 806/511 & 416 woofers
Amps: Class A triode tube, MC2125, PL400 II, Dyna MK III
Crossover: dBx
EQ: White 4400
Preamp: Audio Research SP3
Sources: Dyna CDV-1, Parasound CD-1000, McIntosh MR-71 tuner

---

Sources: Rega P3/RB300/Ortofon Kontrapunkt-b with Cream;Dynaco CDV-2; McIntosh MR-71; Kenwood KT-7500/APS mod Preamp: JuicyMusic Xtreme Amps: JuicyMusic pCAT (P); McIntosh MC-2125; Kora Galaxy Class A Speakers: Klipsch Belles w/DEAN G. Networks.

Report

[BobbyT]

BTW, I have never heard clipping from my RF-7's and I listen to Rock music LOUD.

+1 on loud rock with no clipping

[wstrickland1]

+ 4................clipless

[tsmalls]

I will post some pics tonight around 10pm EST. I personally have never heard clipping in my RF-7s either, but as a dealer of several speaker brands, I'm just telling you some of the complaints I have heard and read concerning the RF-7s. I personally own the RF-7 system in my home, and love it, with my only complaint (and many customers), is the speaker grill that is easily to break. Certainly, the RF-7s have a harsher sound than the new RF-83s, that will be apparent to anyone who listens to them. The RF-83 tweeters are smoother, cleaner, and more detailed than on the RF-7. I had approximately 50 customers listen today. We conducted a "poll" of them, and it was about a 60/40 split with the RF-83s taking the 60%. But i can say this, 95%+ of all 50+ people loved the tweeter, but many loud listeners added at it was too subtle for them, and preferred the greater presence of the RF-7.

[Labbetuss]

Excellent

[ballenone]

one thing that stood out 2 me is the fact that the new series is pretty much the same db rating (100)except rc-64 (99) but that alone should improve the timber matching..imo.. but for me im keeping the rf-7s and thinking of upgrading the rs-7s to the rs-62s in favor of the db rating (closer match 2 rf-7s) and design with the dual woofs and horns.

do you think it would be worth it ..and if you guys could give me some pros and cons either way or if i should stick with the rs-7s.

the rc -64 is tempting also four woofs hhmmmmm wonder if that is worth it ...ahh damm im feeling the upgrade shakes

how they will sound with the rf-7s blending etc.... center and surrounds

your thoughts would help thanks

[ancientdude]

DB rating does not have anything to do with timbre matching. Usually a good receiver or pre/pro will allow you to adjust the levels, so everything is matching sonically.

Unfortunately we did lose 2 decibels with the 3 woofers...but as some have noted, the rf7's could never really do the 102 1watt/1meter that they proclaimed (but pretty darn close).

I think it would be an awesome idea to move your 7's to the rear and line up the front with the rf-83s and rc64.

[KlipsDude]

I've never had any clipping with the RF-7, not even before I got a nicer amp
for the RF-7's, but a better amp really does make a difference with the RF-7
to really sing at it's best. The slight lack of midrange went completely
away when I give it a much better amp and wattage.

I was in the hifi store yesterday to check out what new and used equip he's
gotten in and we started talking about the Klipsch RF-7 and RF-83, he said
that he spent some time listening to them and this is what he thought:

He liked the RF-83, sounded nice, smooth, accurate, and pleasing with good bass.
He said the horn has been tamed down from not being as in your face as the RF-7
that some may be disappointed in that who prefer it, he said he also found it
to be a little less involving than the RF-7's because of that. He said it really
reminded him more of the two brands that Klipsch really competes with.
He also said that the RF-83 sound a little more narrow than the RF-7, where
the RF-7 sound wider, louder. He said folks who want a more tamer sound
than the RF-7 will appreciate the RF-83, but the more in your face Klipsch
fans may not. He said his choice would be the RF-7 for his taste.
I have much of the same taste as he, we usually agree on every thing, so
I have the feeling, I'm gonna agree with him. He also said the singer center
position sounds more real on the RF-7, more warm/smooth on the RF-83, but
lacks the more "I'm There" sound of the RF-7.
He also said the RF-83 seems more amp friendly than the RF-7's. He didn't say
any thing about ever having clipping problems with the RF-7's.

Hmmmm??? Interesting! It will be interesting for me to hear them for myself.
I love the "I'm There" feeling I get with the RF-7's and if it's less than
that in the RF-83, I'm not going to like that.

Well my only complaint with the RF-7's are the cheap plastic feet, and the
pegs on the grills break too easy. The binding post are OK, but I much
prefer the high quality binding post that are now available on the RF-83,
nice to see Klipsch finally upgraded those binding post!

[ancientdude]

IMO, the midrange and midbass are noticeably more "pronounced" on the RF-7. Specwise, the RF-83 does go deeper, not that noticeable though since the 10s on the RF-7 have better extension. You can definitely play the RF-83 louder without the vocals becoming harsh, that's where the improved tweeter comes in, at high volumes, it stays smooth. Also, at high volumes, the 8s maintain "control", and you still can make out all the details with all those soundwaves flying around. The RF-7 was good at this too, but the 8s are a noticeably more controlled at higher volumes. At lower volumes, the RF-7 have a little more presence. All in all, its a tough call, if i had my choice, i would have upgraded the tweeter (this tweeter sounds amazingly sweet, maybe made it 1.75"), kept the 8" horn, and kept the 10s. But those who like more controlled balanced music, will love the arrangement of the RF-83. Now, keep in mind, i just got these, so i am still breaking them in. Overall, I think that Klipsch addressed all the complaints that they had regarding the RF-7, and came up with the RF-83. This is definitely an overall improved speaker, but some will definitely prefer the tad bit more colorful RF-7s.

klipshdude - sounds to me you just summarized and recycled some of the thoughts and sentences from "tsmalls"

[KlipsDude]

Yep, sounds very simular, guess if I got mine posted first, you would be saying the same to tsmalls.