BS Button Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 What about the 400? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I don't have any to test, my K400s are long gone. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BS Button Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I apologize to you and Dean if I've offended you in any way. Yesterday, for me, was a challenge on all fronts. I've never personally witnessed a ringing problem with a 400 and I've heard plenty. White flag on the 511. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 No sweat. There will certainly be horns which won't need any additional damping (tar filled Altec's come to mind) but there are also certainly horns that do need some. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I wasn't offended at all, not even a little bit. "What in the world does all this have to do with whether or not a properly mounted K-400 horn needs damping?" See my first post again. I do not believe there is any "ringing". Once attached to the motorboard it is no longer a free standing 'bell'. What I do believe is that even though the "ringing" is damped by the motorboard attachment, the metal of the horn will still "pick up" external vibration (acoustic and mechanical) and transmit the vibration to the air inside the horn that's being used to propagate the sound. Vibration also excites the natural resonance of the horn which is then amplified by the horn and added to the music. The first is a form of distortion, the second a form of coloration. So, is less of this a good thing or a bad thing? I know PK knew this -- absolutely without question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Dean, All I can say about that is that at the volume that the cabinet door near one of the Cornscalas starts banging and the windows start rattling, I still haven't heard anything bad out of the K-400. Perhaps it is masked by that time. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 You have a much bigger problem -- you need to rope caulk your windows and doors.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 I rope caulked my K400's it seemed to have a small affect, seemed noticeable at first but I still cannot say how much of that was a placebo effect and how much was a reduction in horn vibration. No doubt they ring like a bell when free standing, but hell they should they are a bell for the most part. As for when they are mounted to the baffle ... mmmmm....eeehhhh not so sure. To me at louder volumes their seemed to be a "smoother sound". But I so infrequently listen at louder volume levels (90+ for me is LOUD). I have my 511b's sitting on top of my cabinets right now. I am not going to hack up my original LS cabinets. In the long run I'll likely buy a set of beater LS cabinets or build new bass bins and then customize a new top section for the 511b's and the CT 125's. Short run I am bulding a baffle to house the 511b's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 "I don't think this matters anywhere near as much as a crossover tweak, do you?" Ha! You're trying to trap me:) I look at it like this: If you can lower distortion and increase clarity with $5 in rope caulk you do it. Obviously the louder you play the bigger the difference. If I'm a slipper/cigar/wine guy that likes to listen in the evening with a 10th of a watt I'm probably not going to worry about it much. "...when you take a Klipschorn, re-design a crossover, insert a 511B, put in false corners, cut another hole in the motorboard and mount a 2404, you have not, a Klipschorn." True, you then have a modified Klipschorn. Two years ago I hit Q-man with a 2x4 for desecrating his Klipschorns. To me it was unthinkable -- like treading across holy ground. I thought, how stupid -- to take something that is already "right" and mess it up. It is extremely difficult to admit that in their stock form they are not the end all, or that PK really didn't make them the best they could be. Also, heavily disrespecting and criticizing the opinions of Paul Klipsch on the Klipsch forum and about Klipsch speakers is, of course, ridiculous. This is the 'Updates and Modifications' section of the forum -- it has been here as long as the forum itself. Maron Horonzak, who I think may have known PK on some level says that PK called the Klipschorn "a tweaker's dream". I personally believe it's a tweaker's nightmare -- but we'll get into that later. At any rate, to disagree with PK, or to believe another way sounds better than his way -- is not being disrespectful. At least -- it's certainly not meant to sound that way. Speaking of mods -- those damn tweeters ready yet Bob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Dean, No not yet. Pretty frustrated by a mold builder right now. One thing for future reference; mold builders consider themselves to be artists. They would say "How can you rush a person who is working on a masterpiece?". I would say, "BS, you are a month late! Gimme my horns." Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Dean, "At any rate, to disagree with PK, or to believe another way sounds better than his way -- is not being disrespectful. At least -- it's certainly not meant to sound that way." I agree 100%. It is possible to respect someone while at the same not agreeing with some things they may have said. Or to do things differently then they did. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Dean, "You have a much bigger problem -- you need to rope caulk your windows and doors." Its funny you say that... I first noticed that I could get the 511s ringing simply by clapping was when I was working on my room. I was trying out some different placements for some more acoustic treatments trying to tame some slap echo I would get at a few points. I found a good layout that really killed it down and after I mounted them I was doing some clapping to listen from various positions. At specific positions when I clapped I wasn't getting the slap echo but was hearing a funny... 'tinnnggggg.' It took a couple of minutes before I realized it was happening when I was clapping on axis with either my L or R 511B. (The center was a factory modded unit with the damping in the vanes). That is with the 511B bolted into the LaScala with big bolts at all 6 mounting points and thick foam rubber insulation between the 511B and the motorboard. That was when I bought some of the plumbers putty and tried it in various manors on the 511B. A globe on either of the lips on the 511B really worked better then everything else I tried. Moral of the story..... the less your room sings along with the music the more you can hear what your speakers are doing. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Bob -- I say maybe let him take his time and present something to you he's truly happy with. You have a lot of money invested in this, and once it's done -- that's it -- no going back and fixing something you're not happy about. People have waited 40 years, what's another month or two? Besides, the better it looks the better it sounds. Well Shawn, your all-out assault on the room is nothing short of amazing. I believe Craig would say it's the highth of analitity. I don't have that kind of patience -- I would lose my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted February 25, 2006 Share Posted February 25, 2006 Dean, " I don't have that kind of patience -- I would lose my mind." During the construction of it I think I came close a few times. After the many many hours building the room a few more hours tuning some of the treatments was no big deal. It was worth it though, having a good room really lets a system sing and I love it. Not a lot of people think of it this way but the room really is a component of the system, and it has a huge influence on the end result. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Any pictures of what you are damping on the 511's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Mike, Either one of the lips at the mount of the horn. One side is all it takes to really damp down the horn. Both sides actually seemed to be slightly worse then just one side. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I look at it like this: If you can lower distortion and increase clarity with $5 in rope caulk you do it. Funny story (well, maybe not)... Last summer I decided I would try this cheap rope caulk thing. The only packaging I could find was about 1 inch wide and 18 inches long, for around $3. I figured I could buy a new horn for less than what it would cost to rope caulk one of them! Something is wrong when you need to mail-order rope caulk from the US... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Thanks Shawn! I am assuming this would only be necessary if the horn were mounted to the wooden frame, would that be true? Mine are just sitting on top of my boxes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Mike, That recording is actually with a 511B just sitting out in the open. They ring pretty close to the same way mounted into the baffle too. I'd put the putty on the bottom lip and you won't really even see it. Peter, You should be able to get Plumbers Putty locally at a plumbing place or hardware store. Much less oily then the rope caulk so it is cleaner to work with. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Thanks, Shawn. Let me reread the thread (and listen to what was uploaded) and try the clap test. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.