meagain Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Does anyone have a chart for the attenuation settings for Dean's AA's? I believe they came in at 5 & 1, and I know I can move them to 4 & X, but I'd like to know what other combos make sense. Or is that it? Just 2 options? Here's the thing... I have stock LaScalas and Cornwalls with new crossovers in the house and the highs on both of them sound better than the Khorns. On the same source material on the same gear, no matter where we're positioned - the khorns still get piercy. At a 'grab the remote to turn it down' level. Sometimes flat out hurts depending on how loud. The LaScalas & ESPECIALLY the Cornwalls don't do this. Also, in comparing the Cornwalls to the khorns..... when music really gets going & there's alot of stuff going on - the Cornwalls are still comfy and I still hear separation. The khorns can often turn into a harsh mess. This of course makes no sense to me. In my mind, it should be the other way around. I've only played with changing to 4 & X once for a few minutes weeks ago. I didn't want to delve into it more because I could never learn if it matters where one of the 2 changeable cables went. One cable is on the Squawker black, the other on the red. I've no clue if the one on black needs to go to a higher or lower number or if it doesn't matter. Can someone tell me that? AND - I'm curious where you all have your settings at. I want to sort the problem out cuz everything is assbackwards here. Thanks!!!!!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 You Turkey. I explained it to you in email twice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 What networks are in the LaScalas? Maybe swap with the Khorns?? Edit: Nevermind, I see they are stock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 You Turkey. I explained it to you in email twice! I have all your emails. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st. patrick Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Lisa, have you considered just getting yourself some Bose????????????????????????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 OK - What 'exactly' gets hotter going towards the bottom to 4 & 0? The mid or tweeter? And as I pull back to wards the top of the chart - I'm merely going to be hearing more bass & less high - right? Less tweeter but more bass which might be a bad trade off anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Lisa, have you considered just getting yourself some Bose????????????????????????? I'll ask my musician husband who is 100% on the same page with me - to consider it. Thanks for the suggestion! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Lindsey Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 The higher up the arrow is more attenuation for the squawker (turning it down). As you go down the arrow it gets hotter (or louder). Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.4knee Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 OK 2-0 attenuates the squawker the most and 4-0 the least. Your bass and high end will sound weaker or stronger IAW the changes in the squawker as more or less energy will be delivered to them. Normally the squawker is the problematic issue here in that most of us have it turned down some. If you want to make an adjustment in the sound to tame the tweeter, decrease your attenuation on the squawker (move the taps toward/in the direction of the 4-0 setting) to see if it tames your tweeter a bit. This will also take some away from your woofer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 LOL - I think I want options for the tweeter! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Does anyone have a chart for the attenuation settings for Dean's AA's? I believe they came in at 5 & 1, and I know I can move them to 4 & X, but I'd like to know what other combos make sense. Or is that it? Just 2 options? They were sent to you at 5 (pos) and 2 (neg). If you were on 5 and 1 I would imagine that to sound pretty awful. Here's the thing... I have stock LaScalas and Cornwalls with new crossovers in the house and the highs on both of them sound better than the Khorns. On the same source material on the same gear, no matter where we're positioned - the khorns still get piercy. The ALK Jr. is a "detail filter". The first order squawker filter allows the speakers to open very fast, and though it has a 3rd order tweeter filter, the overall output is similiar to the Klipsch Type A. IOW's roughly 3dB hotter than the Klipsch Type AA (like the ones I sent you to compare with). I tell people that the network is in its element at low to moderate volume levels -- the sound will definitely pinch up and inflict some pain at 100dB steady state and beyond. The behavior of the filter is actually very similiar to the old Klipsch Type A, but handles higher power levels much more gracefully -- which is why I like it! So, no -- it's not your "let's unload the amp and see what she's got" network. I've been very open and forthright about this with people before they buy. Now with that said I have to wonder why you never mentioned any of this while you were audtioning the network and comparing it the Type AA's I sent. Also, in comparing the Cornwalls to the khorns..... when music really gets going & there's alot of stuff going on - the Cornwalls are still comfy and I still hear separation. The khorns can often turn into a harsh mess. This of course makes no sense to me. The only thing that makes sense is that you've been on some weird combination of taps and have been shorting out the autoformer! I've only played with changing to 4 & X once for a few minutes weeks ago. I didn't want to delve into it more because I could never learn if it matters where one of the 2 changeable cables went. One cable is on the Squawker black, the other on the red. I've no clue if the one on black needs to go to a higher or lower number or if it doesn't matter. Like I explained in the email, the black wire is squawker negative, and the red wire is squawker positive, and I believe I wrote it out like this: 5 (pos), 2 (neg). 4 (pos) X (neg). You need to get those VRD's up and running!! Your Klipschorn placement doesn't help either. On the short wall the way they are -- with the horns virtually firing into each other -- makes bad things happen. Hey, drop those networks into your LaScalas and tell us what you think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 4 & x seems to chill the offending part down a tad. A tad. But it almost seems to sound like the bass is a bit louder & less tight? Is that possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Well, you lowered squakwer output, so you now perceive to hear more bass. Bass output is the same, you're just noticing it more. What you will find is a direct correlation between power levels and where you prefer the taps. People who listen loud a lot tend to dial it down, people who listen at lower levels invariably end up on taps 4 (pos) and 0 (neg). The worst part about giving people flexibility and some control is that some can't decide what is "the right setting" -- and it drives them nuts. I just leave mine at 5 and 2, and just never go into power levels that degrade the sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spkrdctr Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Wow, too much driver in a very small space. Plus, I would guess that your head is in line with the tweeter. It is like sitting in front a a speaker at a concert. Just too much too close. (That is a killer set up for rattling your brains!) I rarely advise going smaller, but in this case, smaller will probably be much better. Good Luck with your set up. Just looking at your setup makes me want to reach for the volume knob to turn it down.......[] Good Luck with your set up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 "They were sent to you at 5 (pos) and 2 (neg). If you were on 5 and 1 I would imagine that to sound pretty awful." Type-o. They were on 5 & 2. "The ALK Jr. is a "detail filter". The first order squawker filter allows the speakers to open very fast, and though it has a 3rd order tweeter filter, the overall output is similiar to the Klipsch Type A. IOW's roughly 3dB hotter than the Klipsch Type AA (like the ones I sent you to compare with). I tell people that the network is in its element at low to moderate volume levels -- the sound will definitely pinch up and inflict some pain at 100dB steady state and beyond. The behavior of the filter is actually very similiar to the old Klipsch Type A, but handles higher power levels much more gracefully -- which is why I like it! So, no -- it's not your "let's unload the amp and see what she's got" network. I've been very open and forthright about this with people before they buy. Now with that said I have to wonder why you never mentioned any of this while you were audtioning the network and comparing it the Type AA's I sent." I gave a very critical detailed review (once I got everything to work)... These khorns in my home are still the only khorns I've ever heard. We were at the point with the x-overs that "ok - Deans are WAY better than the oil-can new ones he sent to test". Figured any irritation was the gear and room. What changed is getting these Cornwalls 5 days ago. I'm like... "wait a minute! Why, with the SAME gear, CD player, etc.... do the Cornwalls have less Sibilance, harshness, irritation, in the highs and even seem more comfy with alot of music thrown at it. We can listen to very high volumes and not reach for the remote due to "ewww". This freeked me out. Hearing the Cornwalls. (when the one woofer works). This led us to question what's up for surely the khorns should be better in the horn section than the cornwalls. We're very happy with your crossovers. Just trying to puzzle this out. "The only thing that makes sense is that you've been on some weird combination of taps and have been shorting out the autoformer!" They've only been on 5/2 and 4/x. "Like I explained in the email, the black wire is squawker negative, and the red wire is squawker positive, and I believe I wrote it out like this: 5 (pos), 2 (neg). 4 (pos) X (neg)." ok - will make sure they're correct. I've not wanted to play with them fearing this pos/neg thing was important. "You need to get those VRD's up and running!!" FedEx screwed up. Tomorrow though! But still, the Cornwall vs. Khorn thing is goofy. "Your Klipschorn placement doesn't help either. On the short wall like, with the horns virtually firing into each other -- makes bad things happen. Hey, drop those networks into your LaScalas and tell us what you think!" Well, we played with toe in, etc. for the horns and sat in the sweet spot, etc. The bass is beautiful though. Tight. It's just a piercing issue. Cornwalls don't pierce (just have a freekishly loud bass..... when one woofer works). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 "We were at the point with the x-overs that "ok - Deans are WAY better than the oil-can new ones he sent to test". Figured any irritation was the gear and room." Naturally the former is the most important thing from my perspective:), and I would not rule out the latter. "Why, with the SAME gear, CD player, etc.... do the Cornwalls have less Sibilance, harshness, irritation, in the highs and even seem more comfy with alot of music thrown at it. We can listen to very high volumes and not reach for the remote due to "ewww"." Because that's the signature and behavior associated with Jensen Paper in Oil capacitors. Now, I am a bit confused -- remember the last email you sent me? I was under the distinct impression you were unimpressed with the sound. Jensens draw mixed reviews, but rarely with the same person! "I've not wanted to play with them fearing this pos/neg thing was important." It IS important because it's related to the phasing relationship of the drivers. It's not easy coming up with something that fully explains what you are experiencing. Just curious, but did Steve get those Cornwalls from someone living in Baltimore? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meagain Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 "Because that's the signature and behavior associated with Jensen Paper in Oil capacitors. Now, I am a bit confused -- remember the last email you sent me? I was under the distinct impression you were unimpressed with the sound. Jensens draw mixed reviews, but rarely with the same person!:)" Hmmm.. The caps in the Corns say pure aluminum foil. I actually started a thread on this. LOL The bass & horn section are 2 separate beasts. I was referring to the horns as good. Bass = mega mega problems. Long story. "I've not wanted to play with them fearing this pos/neg thing was important." It IS important because it's related to the phasing relationship of the drivers. IF they were screwed up - what damage is done? It's not easy coming up with something that fully explains what you are experiencing. Just curious, but did Steve get those Cornwalls from someone living in Baltimore? LOLLLLL You're baaaaad! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Wow, too much driver in a very small space. Plus, I would guess that your head is in line with the tweeter. It is like sitting in front a a speaker at a concert. Just too much too close. (That is a killer set up for rattling your brains!) I rarely advise going smaller, but in this case, smaller will probably be much better. Good Luck with your set up. Just looking at your setup makes me want to reach for the volume knob to turn it down.......[] Good Luck with your set up. It's natural to think what you are thinking. I'm 14 feet back with an addtional 25 feet of open space behind my chair -- basically the whole second floor. The K-horns are bolted into the false corners, and the whole deal is actually tilted forward a bit. The last six months has been spent working to get the best sound at the lowest of volume levels -- which I have found to be a much greater challenge then getting them to sound good loud. Getting them to project an immersive soundfield out to my chair at 70dB has been the most rewarding experience I've had to date. The key has been the use of low part count first order filters. Two filters actually in this picture: 1) 450/6000 with a Kimber and Theta and litz coil for the squawker low pass. 2) 450/4500 using OIMP V-caps. The .50mH coil is off the board, which I have to exchange with the one seen when I make the switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 ALK Jr's and a pair of 450/8000 networks. The amp is the Sonic Impact T2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 If you're paying attention, you'll notice no low pass sections on the networks in the above pic. I have the lone part mounted directly to back side of my false corners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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