martindemon Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 I'll finally buy a home theater audio system. I visited 2 stores. One tried to talk me into buying monster cables (at monster prices!) ; i find quite ridiculous to pay 300$ for cables (they are actually jewel cables ; 24k gold plated connectors...) The guy told me of the importance to have good cables. I already knew it. But 300$... Being in electrical engineering, i know a few things about what makes good cables : the purity of the material (copper) and the gauge of the cable (to minimize the resistive loss). The problem with monster cable is that they can cost 5-6 times the price of ordinary audio cables (of equivalent gauge.) I visited another store and i talked about cables. This guy was more practical and seemed to think like me ; what cable would make the best connection? a cable without connector?! If i use a gold plated connector, it will not oxyde. But what about the contact surface? Perhaps the resistance is negligeable for a good connector but i did not test it... But if i plug the cable directly to the screwed connectors of the receiver and speakers, will not the "connector" resistance be as negligeable? I will not unplug my speakers so oxydation is not a case (or is it? ; does oxydation can be kind of transmitted to the metal of the receiver and speakers connectors?) So if i unplug the connectorless cables, i just cut 1 inch at each end of the cables and replug... No oxidation. Is it a good idea? Do i think too much about cables? ------------------ If it's not broken, don't fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Tanman Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 I'm really not an expert, but I thought I'd drop in my $0.02. I have had so many speaker cables throughout the years, many of which I've had for several years and I have never noted any significant or appreciable oxidation bare wire ends. Now I use the gold-plated ends because I bought better cable and like the look & ease of hook-up, but I feel that air reaching the bare copper is diminished but not eliminated. It probably still can oxidate even with the end caps. I personally think that they are not absolutely necessary unless you are using high grade twisted or bi-wire cables but are nice if you want them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Tanman Posted October 26, 2001 Share Posted October 26, 2001 Oh incedently, if you are interested in very good interconnects and such cables, you should check out www.accessories4less.com. They are selling IXOS cables for great prices. I just picked up a set of the Silver IXOS interconnects and they sound wonderful. In case you were interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htxpert Posted October 27, 2001 Share Posted October 27, 2001 Hi All I have the ability to try out severall high end cables with Klipsch Speakers These are the ones I have used with Legend,RF and Heritage speakers Monster,IXOS,MIT,Straightwire,Liberty,Kimber and XLO. IMOHO the most netrall cable I have heard to date was also the least amount of money Its is the XLO ER-12 this is XLO's entry level cable and is a Braided design pure copper.The Build quality is superb with there Deltron type bannans or HD spades They are also availabe in Bi-wire or Bi-amp configuration I have tryed the higher end XLO line but always came back to the ER series Cheers Ray ------------------ I am HI-FI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 ok, i'm about to 'take the plunge' on some upgraded speaker wire, i'm getting some ixos bi-wire gamma geometry 13/15 awg bla bla bla wire to replace my 12 awg monster cable to my '30's. not only am i going from 'parallel' to 'interwoven' design, but i'm bi-wiring also. the whole bi-wiring argument has eluded me for some time...something about'common impeadence', i'm not sure i get it yet, but i know this for sure: these wires look REALLY COOL!,i'm getting them at a really good price,i'm getting the same length so the sound gets to each speaker at the same time (yeah-really!)and if i ever move my speakers i want the same length anyway. i'll let y'all know if i hear a difference. btw-did i say they LOOK REALLY COOL! avman. p.s.: what would the delay be for an electrical signal to travel 11 ft. vs. say 6 ft.? ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center ksps-6 surrounds sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1 sony playstation 2 dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder pioneer dvd player sharp 35"tv panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire a 'teens' sub coming!(RSW-15 LOOKIN'GOOD!) KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 Taking a stab at the delay time. Using a $5 calculator and 186,300 miles/second speed, I came up with a delay in 5 feet of 0.00000000508 seconds. How'd I do? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundog Posted October 28, 2001 Share Posted October 28, 2001 Ask if you can bring home cables and compare. Most stores allow returns within a certain number of days. If you use a credit card you won't have to lay out any money. I hook one brand to the left channel and one to the right and set the pre-amp to mono and switch back and forth to compare. I've found some small differences but not a great deal. I'd recommend spending money on other components first, unless you have money to burn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avman Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 thanks fini...i wouldn't want such a noticeable delay in my signal...it would sound like the 'church' surround mode! LOL really-i'm not sure of how the l,r fronts are going to be set up in relation to the amp placement, so i got both the same length. avman. ------------------ 1-pair klf 30's c-7 center ksps-6 surrounds sony strda-777ES receiver upgraded to v.2.02 including virtual matrix 6.1 sony playstation 2 dishnetwork model 7200 dishplayer satellite receiver/digital bitstream recorder pioneer dvd player sharp 35"tv panamax max dbs+5 surge protector/power conditioner monster cable interconnects/12 gua.speaker wire a 'teens' sub coming!(RSW-15 LOOKIN'GOOD!) KLIPSCH-So Good It Hz! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htxpert Posted October 29, 2001 Share Posted October 29, 2001 Hi better make sure that thoes IXOS are pure copper and not a coated wire or you will get the "skin" effect most apparent in the KLF-30 mid horn Cheers Ray ------------------ I am HI-FI Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martindemon Posted October 29, 2001 Author Share Posted October 29, 2001 Avman : What Fini told you is that you could have a difference of 1000 feet in length benween your right and left cables and you could not possibly hear the delay (1us is not noticeable even by the best musician of the world.) Of course, at this length, the resistance would be far too high... But a difference of 20 feet between the cables really does nothing into the sound. Thank you guys for your help about cables ; i'll try bare cables first. ------------------ If it's not broken, don't fix it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USparc Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 martindemon, Still thinking about cables? or others. Well this is the answer: FTP cat5 data cable. I used 3 runs for connecting one RF-3. Yep, not bi-wired. Bi-wiring just lowers the total resistance. Better use one cable with low resistance. I just braided the 3 cables in a normal way. In a ftp cable you have 4 twisted pairs. I used the colored one's for the + terminal the others for the - terminal. So you get 12 individual wires for each binding post. Note that each + an - wires are twisted!! Even the twisted pairs are twisted with a different frequency!!. The best cable for it's price. I was able to compare this "FTPtriple" cable with the kimber 4TC. Conclusion: FTPtriple can easily compete with the kimber in sound, So detailed and transparant even more then the kimber!! In price it puts not only the kimber but all speaker cables far far away. Even the cheapest cable can't compete this!! Result: all my speakers are connected with this cable without thinking how much this costs for a total of 150 m(500ft) cable!! (About $50!!) What would that be if it was kimber 4TC .... Yes, now it is time to think about the internal wires since the RF-3 mkII 's are out. I'll make the RF-3 FTP For those who doesn't know what FTP stands for : FOILED TWISTED PAIR unlike UTP(unshielded twisted pair) the FTP is shielded with a sort of mica and an aluminum foil. Happy braiding !! ------------------ ------------------------- Receiver: Onkyo 676 DVD: Pioneer DV-525 Screen: Thomson 46" RetroProjection Front: RF-3's Rear: RF-3's Center: RC-3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QUiKSR20 Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 I found really good prices at www.accessories4less.com Just like other members here. I dont have a killer system but a pretty good modest one that sounds good enough to me. I run all Acoustic Reasearch Proseries interconnects and AR 16 gauge to my speakers. Seams to do me fine. Its not the most expensive but definately Good wire I probaly have about $125 in wire/interconnects ------------------ Thanks, Daryl Gregg MY Home Theatre Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KLIPSCHHOG Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Hey Guys, I love the topic of cables as some old acquantances of mine in the a/v industry and I used to sit around and talk about the differences cables make all the time. The first thing you should be aware of is that your system has to have the proper resolution for "good" speaker cables to make a difference. I was in the fortunate position to get to try a lot of gear and cables on my KLF-30's. As for cables I tried Nordost --the ENTIRE LINE!-- with not much satisfaction. I have tried TARA LABS various cables -- the AIR ONES were pretty amazing but definately a little too much resolution for Klipsch. I tried the "upper end" lines from Custom House and found that they were a bit grainy. I really hate the grainy and diluted effect that you get from Monster Cable and I've tried just about everything Monster has to offer. I tried the Straightwire line and near the top of their line is where I fell in love, While the Straightwire cable line has distinctly different sounding cables throughout thier line I found my true love in their--- Level 4 cable SERENADE It was just perfect, that is the only way that I can describe it--PERFECT. BTW-- Want a cheap way for more controlled, tight, and incredibly low bass? If you can Bi-wire your speakers try ROMEX on the bottom end. Yup that's right ROMEX as in electrical wire. I can't explain it, but I know some serious audiophiles here in "RED STICK" that use it on their systems for the bottom end while using things like Kimber Select, Tara Airs, and Cardas on the top ends. Believe me I was a skeptic to but when you try it you'll be amazed. One of my audiophile buddies first tried it after an engineer (who was also into high-end audio) told him it carries bass better due to something with being made to carry voltage and its solid core characteristics. Try it I think You'll be impressed. ------------------ LSU PAINTBALL- We'll cover you with our balls! Paintball players do it 'till their balls break! 1 Pair KLF-30's Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 Pre-amp Carver TFM-45 Amp Teac AD-4 CD Player ***Needed VPI HW Series Turntable*** Anybody Sellin'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 Romex for the lows! That is a cheap tweak I would have never considered. I have been thinking about AQ Slate or Straightwire Octave internal biwire. There has not been a great store environment to compare the two in my location. I will try the Romex on the lows with my AQ type 6+ for the highs in the next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WMcD Posted November 8, 2001 Share Posted November 8, 2001 fini, I believe your math is correct. I use the following rules of thumb. The speed of sound transmission in air is roughly 1000 foot per second or 1 foot/1,000 of a second. I.e. 1 foot per millisecond. The speed of electromagnetic signals in a vacuum is roughly 1000 foot per microsecond. So your delay time is correct for a vacuum. I'll be a little bit of a stickler and point out that the signal in a wire doesn't quite travel at that speed. This is called the velocity factor. It varies depending upon the wire. Probably a factor of 50% is not too far off. E.g. 50% of the speed of light in a vacuum. I recall Nelson Pass may have measured this for different cables. There was a link on the BBS to his article. The bottom line is that no one can hear the short delay of the signal in the speaker wire. Gil Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.