Peach competition

[garymd]

Plus the sweet spot isn't all that important when you're dancing naked in your basement as Coltrane rips through the changes . . .

Who told you?[][:$]

[meagain]

Plus the sweet spot isn't all that important when you're dancing naked in your basement as Coltrane rips through the changes . . .

I'll have to try that! Might be the best suggestion yet.

[garymd]

Actually, my basement is horrible. 1/4" masonite paneling with no insulation. 8' ceilings. I think the only reason it sounds good is because I sit as close as I do. Hell, maybe it would sound terrible to you. I don't know.

As far as soundstage, I don't get the depth I do with my cornwalls since they're on the long wall in a really good room but if I close my eyes, everything is in the right place. Art Pepper's alto is dead center (assuming that's where it's suppose to be), Ray Brown's bass is dead center (assuming it's a Ray Brown LP), etc. If I play a musical, all the players are on the stage in the right places spread out before me. Are you telling me you don't get this with your system? Albums are recorded in such a way as to make this happen.

[NOSValves]

Plus the sweet spot isn't all that important when you're dancing naked in your basement as Coltrane rips through the changes . . .

I'll have to try that! Might be the best suggestion yet.

Make sure you get good and buzzed up first! Have to be in the proper mood for Random Horn Blowing you know []

Craig

[NOSValves]

Replace his khorns with Hereseys? Come on now, guys. Seriously.

Oh I am being absolutely serious here. there are 2 ways to build a stereo (actually there are probably many, many ways but for the purposes of this discussion there are 2):

1. I want these speakers and I am damn well going to make them work in my room!

2. I have this room - what would be the ideal speaker to use in here?

Neither approach is necessarily right or wrong but with some speakers, like the KHorn it can be EXTREMELY difficult if not impossible.

Also, I don't believe in any of this long thread, that Coytee said he has a problem with the sound or that it sounds bad.

Well he did say he wants a soundstage and he doesn't have one - for many that is bad sound however accurately it plays tonally.

As it happens I would make a considerable wager that in that room he is not getting good sound either - subject to a definition of good sound. Whether this is a problem for Coytee only he can say.

He just said that his 2 preamps, hooked up in such a way... that they sound identical. Right?

Originally yes.

Why is it not possible they DO sound the same? Maybe they do. We're not there.

In that room they probably do. That is not the cop out it sounds. If the room is garbling the sound what difference can the pre-amp's fine adjustments in tone and construction of the soundstage make?

I would imagine all pre-amps sound alike in there, and all CD players, amps.....

Max,

Great post !!!! There is no best speaker, amp, preamp or what not. A "system" is many parts put together into one fine tuned setup, proper mating is very important. The room is part of the setup. Khorn are far from the best speaker in some rooms. Khorn can be spectacular in the right room and total sh!t in the wrong room and then there is everything in-between.

Maybe you should ask Dean why he uses those false corners......................

Craig

[meagain]

Plus the sweet spot isn't all that important when you're dancing naked in your basement as Coltrane rips through the changes . . .

I'll have to try that! Might be the best suggestion yet.

Make sure you get good and buzzed up first! Have to be in the proper mood for Random Horn Blowing you know []

Craig

An even better suggestion.

[garymd]

[Parrot]

Gary,

The picture of you dancing naked to one of your musicals is not showing up.

[garymd]

That's the only picture of my room. Just one corner and my old Altec. I didn't have the Khorns when that was taken. The Japanese silk screen on the left wall is my only room treatment.[]

Edit: I would have been dancing naked to Cabaret but I had company.

[NOSValves]

Come on Gary I know you have a digital camera take a shot for us!!

[meagain]

Gary - That print looks like Paeonia Suffruticosa (Japanese Tree Peony). So - does the khorn sit where the Altec was? Near the bookcase wall? (I want to hear Altecs someday).

[sfogg]

"get some great "little" monitors - like a Tannoy, JBL, or really small

Klipsch, and set them in any room where you can get a great soundstage

(trivial to do)"

For very little money and also nice and small (maybe to be wall mounted

later on when you move downstairs) try NHT SuperZero's. You will have

to pick them up used but you can probably get a pair for $100 or so by

now and a $50 pair of speaker stands.

Set them up well away from the side/front walls in a triangle with the

listener and spend some time listening to them. They are limited in

dynamics (esp. compared to horns) and they have so little bass they

make LaScala's sound like subs but they can image like a bandit and

they would be easy to resell and get all your money back later on. They

are inefficient so the SE-OTL would certainly be out on them.

For a little more money SuperOnes have better dynamics and a little more bass but they are likely not as plentiful.

Shawn

[meagain]

Mark - Thanks. I understand. You do write well. We did like the 'stage' when we hauled in the LaScalas and also toed the khorn horn section. It was nice. But when we did that, our focus was solely on if our specific irritations would go away or lessen. It didn't help, and I'm closer to pinpointing it, but once we get it cleared up - will figure out a way to get that stage back.

So basically khorns on a small wall is like a band playing on a tiny stage at a local bar, and khorns 25 feet apart is more like a $40 dollar ticket to a 'real' venue. Yes?

[garymd]

25 feet may be a little too wide but you have the right idea. HOWEVER, even spaced 13 feet apart, I still get a very nice soundstage with my Khorns. Sound seems to come from beyond the speakers and sitting nearfield can give you impression that you have those $40 seats. I'm very eager to expand my room but I could live with what I have for the rest of my life and be perfectly happy.

[3dzapper]

If you are not getting a good center sound stage, most likely it is a phasing problem. The distance between large Klipsch speakers mask the bass cancellation common to close spaced book shelf models. If the spatial clues do not reach your ears in the proper phase, it will be readily appearant that there are two distinct sound sources. These spacial clues are found in the mids and highs.

Unlike sealed box speakers, the large Heritage have easy access to the crossovers, squakers and tweeters. These connections are disturbed every time we disconnect the top hat, a driver, or a crossover. Thus it is easy to get them out of phase. And, that is assuming that the "red" marks are correct!

My advice for anyone making any change in components is to listen, swap wires on one channel, then listen again. No matter the color of the wire, the position which gives the proper center sound stage is the correct position for the current configuration.

I have found that just changing amps can collapse the stage requiring speaker wire reversal on one channel. Banana plugs make these switches very easy and rewarding when it is "right".

Rick.

[Macallan]

This is an old post but i wanted to post a follow up. I have owned the Peach II for over a year and I have done several A/B tests with my Rotel receiver while in HT Bypass mode and I have often wondered what difference the Peach actually made. My Peach actually had a random part fail so I have been without it for the past few weeks. Two things. 1.) The Peach certainly makes a huge difference. The Rotel sounds flat, thin and somewhat harsh by comparison. 2.) Even though this should not be technically possible, I am convinced that even in Bypass mode the Peach makes the Rotel sound better.

[SWL]

The Peach certainly makes a huge difference. The Rotel sounds flat, thin and somewhat harsh by comparison

What speakers were you using?

[Macallan]

I am using RF-7s with a B&K 200.2 amplifier, my reciever is a Rotel. When i shipped the Peach back for repair my wife commented that it sounded less full and was not as far out into the room. She quickly said that she did not care either way but she could hear the difference. I said that people pay a lot of money for that 3D effect.

[gartenman]

Lisa,

I'm not saying you did not hear what you heard. I'm saying AB testing is flawed by nature.

Simply stated the differences come to surface when your NOT trying so hard. A note starts and stops more realistically, a single note sounds oh so real and so on. Audio is just not that cut and dry. You will never get instant gratification. A/B testing is a waste IMHO.

Much of what you hear in this type of setup is what your mind will tell you to hear. I literally quit telling customers what something may sound like! Why.....I got sick of everyone of them coming back with what ever I told them it would sound like. The mind is a very powerful and uncontrollable force.

I have a story for you.

A well seasoned amplifier/preamp audio designer back in the 70's took 10 well seasoned audiophiles and placed them in a room with 2 preamps of identical electrical wiring and circuit. These were both proto types. One he place all kinds of extra chokes, transformers and tubes on the top of the naked chassis but in reality they were disconnected underneath the extra tubes were strictly running heaters only so the lit up. They did a 100% AB blind test and all 10 audiophile reported the preamp with the extra components had more weight and control to the sound!!! These preamps were dead nuts electrically identical. The mind can really screw you up.

Craig

The science behind what Craig is stating is how Weinicke's Area on the right side of the brain works. How much of perception is reality makes A/B testing inaccurate science and purely based on subjective measures.