Peach competition

[meagain]

Gary - You're khorns are on a 13' wall? I didn't know that! And you sound happy. We've the same situation as you. Sit about the same distance back, etc. Only I have more than 17' open space behind the sofa. More around 25 ish? It's much like Deans room only he's got 'em toed w/false corners and sits considerably farther back.

We tested via disconnecting the top horn on our B-style Khorns & skewing them. This produced 'the stage' for us. And it was nice. Unfortunately I was focusing on my issue with harshness (listening/focusing on this), that I put 'soundstage goodness' on the backburner. Figuring triaging the harshness was more critical, then focus on the stage later as more of an icing on the cake. We then spent time changing speakerwire, interconnects, building cheapo diy racks - and somehow in the mix - they got put back.

The protruding screws on the bottom of the horn bin decided how they'd be toed & I need to get back to this and set it up right. I don't recall what happened (if anything) to the bass when I did this.

Coytee - since you sit way farther back than me, and your wife appears stubborn, maybe toeing the horn might be interesting to test? It was pretty easy to do.

[Strabo]

Gosh - you must really like her. LOL

Very funny Meagain!

Get that basement finished. Best thing I did for my system was move it to it's own room. SWMBO is able to decorate her room however she wants, and I get to put speaker and "ugly" room treatments where I want.

[Coytee]

Well, regarding the room, I always felt the chair wouldn't be an issue because it's not blocking anything (much?)

If I were to flip the room 90 degrees to the left... how to describe this...

Think of two boxes and they being perpendicular to each other, meet corner to corner rather than end to end. Each box is a room (living room as seen and dining room) and the opening where the corners of the boxes meet are ALSO open.

Bottom line, I have zero left wall. I'd need a false corner, or 1/2 of one... perhaps for a "test run" I could get by without a false corner though.

Marion (wifeypoo) is one who thinks Bose cube speakers are "cute" and "big heavy speakers are passe' and NO ONE *ever* listens with them anymore" (I just sigh)

She is VERYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY visual oriented and much prefers hiding the speakers behind a book, door, other...just as long as "they are OUT of view".

Kind of hard to hide a Khorn [A]

I've already visited once with her today about moving one speaker to the left side of the fireplace. I'll bring it up again & try to explain to her... I've got five amplifiers, 2 preamps and I'd like to thin the herd a bit... I feel a better way to test said items is to move things around for couple weeks...

We ARE expecting company relatively soon and frankly, I don't give a flip if company gives a flip... Marion on the other hand, has a life burdon of caring very much what someone thinks of her home and if so much as a book is out of place prior to their arrival, she'll go through everything once again to be sure it's as perfect as she can make it.

She'd probably have a cow if she knew I posted that pic (taken a year ago) without dusting behind the speakers first...

I guess all I can say right now is "crud". I feel a bit entrapped and have no great ways out. Even redoing the basement is going to give me the same width for the speakers (moving straight down below) I already mentioned turning that room 90 degrees...

She wants to add onto the house, I'm telling her lets can THAT idea and simply build a new one from scratch again...THIS TIME however, we'll START with the HT room and simply build the house around it!

[meagain]

BTW - My Khorns are only 13 ft apart (until I build my music room) and I sit about 8 feet back (leaving about 17 feet behind me). It takes the room out of the equation and the soundstage is amazing.

Can someone please tell me why/how Gary has an "amazing soundstage" when his khorns are on a 13 foot wall? I want to understand this as I've been told every which way & upside down that a 13 foot wall is nothing short of a horrifying situation and I should replace the khorns with something lesser.

Coytee - is your wall about 15 feet? Room dimensions please?

[NOSValves]

Flip the K'Horns and mount them from the ceiling. Will give them more room to breathe.... Shawn

Gosh I'm shocked serious Shawn cracked a joke []

[meagain]

EDIT - Coytee and I just need to buy one of Gary's magic 13' walls. I've not seen them at Costco.

[NOSValves]

EDIT - Coytee and I just need to buy one of Gary's magic 13' walls. I've not seen them at Costco.

Your looking for those magic instant answers again. Gary's 13 foot wall is not your 13 foot wall. Your room and Gary's are completely different. You really need to start trying things that people suggest. Get the 2 wheel cart out and replace the Khorn with either your Cornwall's or Lascala's. Please do not come back with ....well I tried them out in front of my Khorns PLEASE............

Craig

[LarryC]

My Khorns are across a short, 11' wall, and they sound very good to me. Their integration improved greatly IMO after installing AK-4s. I only have one good ear, so it doesn't matter to me where I sit, and often doesn't matter to some guests, either. Others want to sit in a sweet spot, which puts them in a comfortable place in the middle of my 11' X 14' living room:

[maxg]

OK - now that we all agree you can never get good sound in Coytee's room with KHorns - what could be made to sound good in there?

The first thing that comes to my mind is to replace the Khorns with a pair of Heresy 2's and a Rel Strata 3 sub. Wall mount the heresies on those angle poise affairs that are designed for TV's with the base at the height of the small black boxes currently atop the Khorns.

Slide the Rel into the corner to the left as you look at the picture and move the red striped chair in front of it to hide it for SWMBO.

Aim the heresies at the new listening position (on the settee between camera and coffee table), dial the Rel in (probably to about 50 Hz roll off) and hey presto - will probably sound great - well, better....

[meagain]

Replace his khorns with Hereseys? Come on now, guys. Seriously.

Also, I don't believe in any of this long thread, that Coytee said he has a problem with the sound or that it sounds bad. He just said that his 2 preamps, hooked up in such a way... that they sound identical. Right?

Why is it not possible they DO sound the same? Maybe they do. We're not there.

[maxg]

Replace his khorns with Hereseys? Come on now, guys. Seriously.

Oh I am being absolutely serious here. there are 2 ways to build a stereo (actually there are probably many, many ways but for the purposes of this discussion there are 2):

1. I want these speakers and I am damn well going to make them work in my room!

2. I have this room - what would be the ideal speaker to use in here?

Neither approach is necessarily right or wrong but with some speakers, like the KHorn it can be EXTREMELY difficult if not impossible.

Also, I don't believe in any of this long thread, that Coytee said he has a problem with the sound or that it sounds bad.

Well he did say he wants a soundstage and he doesn't have one - for many that is bad sound however accurately it plays tonally.

As it happens I would make a considerable wager that in that room he is not getting good sound either - subject to a definition of good sound. Whether this is a problem for Coytee only he can say.

He just said that his 2 preamps, hooked up in such a way... that they sound identical. Right?

Originally yes.

Why is it not possible they DO sound the same? Maybe they do. We're not there.

In that room they probably do. That is not the cop out it sounds. If the room is garbling the sound what difference can the pre-amp's fine adjustments in tone and construction of the soundstage make?

I would imagine all pre-amps sound alike in there, and all CD players, amps.....

[SilverSport]

...yeah, quit pickin' on coytee and his wall...heck when I was rebuilding my K'Horns they even sounded pretty good next to each other in the middle of the room!...Bill

[Cut-Throat]

You guys wanna talk about caps now?

Dean,

OK, let's talk caps! - I thought you were a fan of the Jensen Paper in Oils? - Or you were, until you tried the V-Caps?

Do the Jensen PIO's still have a place in Crossovers? - Any other caps you want to talk about? - Bring em on!

[cjgeraci]

As Max states, there is more than one way to get there.

In my case, K-horns would face some problems in my basement due to the unique shape of the room, and low ceilings. Instead, I have achieved my particular nirvana by going with Belles and Altec Valencias (and a sub as backup). Someday, if we build a large addition with sizeable ceilings, I may add K-horns.

I have heard various Klipsch sounding fantastic, depending on the room and the equipment and sub (or not), including Heresies. On the other hand, I've heard K-horns sounding less than good, in rooms where they should not have been in the first place. That's not saying that K-horns could not sound great in that particular room, but it looks as though they are facing some obstacles.

Carl.

[Coytee]

I would imagine all pre-amps sound alike in there, and all CD players, amps.....

I should probably be ashamed to say but, ironically, if you look at some of the past things I've said (not in this thread), I HAVE said in the past that my Wright 2A3's, OTL's sound "identical" to the bridged dbx BX3 I have (other than for a lot more hiss at idle in the dbx). I belive it was Shawn or someone who couldn't belive such disparate topologies would be accused as sounding the same... I too felt a bit like I shouldn't admit it lest I show how deaf I may be...

hmmm...

I will say, the sound in the room is "delicious". I will also say that there happens to be one or two spots where the sound is also a touch better. These spots are in direct line of the speakers and probably 25' away. Perhaps not that far, but you get the idea.

I've felt the reason they sound so much more natural at that distance is they simply project such a huge sound and that distance gives the sound (out of that specific speaker) a bit of time/distance to mellow out and come together.

There have been instances where I've asked myself..."are they disappearing right now" and there is a flavor of it. Again, nothing like my Promedias though. To compare to my Promedia speakers, they can sonically be BLARING yet when I physically LOOK at them, they are dead silent, the sound is CLEARLY eminating from my monitor and not them. It's almost an optical illusion kinda thing because they're making as much sound as you would expect a flower to make. They're just two items sitting quietly there in the background while my monitor just sings. Kinda spooky in a way.

When wife gets home, I'm going to again bring up idea of moving Khorn over to side of fireplace.

Oh, and I'd rather live with my Khorns (my dream speaker when I first heard them) & compromises than 'settle' for something smaller. If nothing else, it's just an ego/thick head thing I must be going through. Even prefer to keep them over my LaScalas which are currently sitting idle downstairs.

Sigh, I need to just stop all the playing I do and hunker down to finish that darn room! Then sell the house & design a new house around the new HT room.

anyone want to buy a ~3,000 sq/ft log house in the middle of 250 acres on a lake?

[]

[sfogg]

If you will have free reign downstairs then get that room done and

spend time treating the room. My room is narrower then yours and

I still get great imaging in it. I sit fairly close to the speakers

though so the listening angle is around 50 degrees. My room

is heavily treated though... multiple thicknesses of acoustic foam

throughout the room, the entire ceiling is treated and I have velvet

drapes on all the walls. The horns were chosen/setup such to avoid side

wall reflections.

Forget swapping amps/pre-amps for awhile. You are going to gain far

more from building/treating your room then you ever will gain with amp

swamping.

Shawn

[Allan Songer]

I HAVE said in the past that my Wright 2A3's, OTL's sound "identical" to the bridged dbx BX3... ============= WHAAAT??? md

JULIAN HIRSCH LIVES!!!

[garymd]

Meagain,

Yes, my khorns sound great, even on a 13' wall (if I do say so myself[]). Sitting 8 feet back, the soundstage is to die for. I don't understand why yours doesn't sound good at that distance. I tried moving the top bins so I could sit farther back and while they did sound better at 15', they DID NOT sound as good as they do in the original 45 degree angle with my butt plopped on the sofa 8' back. I'm sure once I get my 18' wall built, it'll sound even better. You seriously need to hear someone else's system to figure out if your expectations are too high or you really have issues.

Also, at 11' apart, Larry's sound great. The soundstage just isn't as prominent as mine since the middle seat is about 15' back. His system has other advantages however that more than make up for the lack of a true "sweet spot."

[Allan Songer]

Plus the sweet spot isn't all that important when you're dancing naked in your basement as Coltrane rips through the changes . . .

[meagain]

Gary - Can I come over? [] Why do you have to live so far away? Actually, there's an audio store around me that alledgedly has khorns on an 11-13ish foot wall in their own room (I think). I've been meaning to get over there for a few months now and really should. Though for all I know, mine sounds better.

Gary - are there any pictures of your magic room anywhere? Did you have to put up any treatments to get it to sound good on a 13' wall?

I have a question about soundstage. "My" understanding is it is what it is - the sound being in the 'air'. You can close your eyes and visualize the musicians. You don't hear sound coming from the speakers. But..... does haveing a good soundstage allow you to actually hear things you wouldn't with a poor soundstage? It's my understanding - no. Am I incorrect?

Coytee - I have some KG4s I can send you. (sorry - couldn't resist)