Electrical Circuits

[damonrpayne]

I found out yesterday that I have to have a plug-in every 12 linear feat on walls in order to meet code, and that apparently I need a licenced electrician to get the permits. This is fine by me as I don't have electrical experience, but I'm also going to have to draw up a schematic as to what I want. I think I only have 3-4 circuit breakers left on my box and probably won't take the expense of adding another box coming into the house. I am thinking of breaking them up as follows in order to isolate noise on the line:

-Projector gets its own circuit

-Lights and the code-required outlets on a circuit

-Amps on a circuit

-DVD/transport/preprocessor on another circuit.

Yes, I am planning every minute detail of this room

[Coytee]

I can't comment on your comments (or did I just?) but I'm in similar boat.

I've got 4 slots available to me (circuits). I might even go as far as add a subpanel so that everything HT related is DEDICATED to the specific subpanel. My thinking (hope) is that by doing all on dedicated subpanel, I won't have any ground loop issues (??)

I'm planning on putting in several circuits on the panel, snaking the wires over to the door so I can have several light switches at the door to power the outlets. This way, I can walk in room and turn all on or off. Might even use the orange colored outlets for the electircal equipment and have regular outlets for the regular purposes.

Heck, the bathroom I'm putting in downstairs has overhead light/washing machine on one circuit (dryer is dedicated) and I've got TWO more circuits going to same bathroom powering other outlets and more lights in closets/shower. So I've got three different circuits doing duty in a single bathroom (sigh).

Oh, and I might have an outlet (unless code frowns on it...fortunately, my brother in law is electrician and gives me guidance on the design plan) up near my corners so if I put an amp on TOP of my Khorn, I'll have an outlet handy without having to have cords strung out to the side several feet.

[damonrpayne]

I can't comment on your comments (or did I just?) but I'm in similar boat.

I've got 4 slots available to me (circuits). I might even go as far as add a subpanel so that everything HT related is DEDICATED to the specific subpanel. My thinking (hope) is that by doing all on dedicated subpanel, I won't have any ground loop issues (??)

I'm not sure about ground loops, I'm doing this for cleaner power. My old man works on stuff like MRI systems and says there is plenty of scientific evidence and his own personal experience point to some equipment being able to muck-up the power for other equipment on the same circuit. I would do this in addition to some type of power center.

[formica]

I'm not sure about ground loops, I'm doing

this for cleaner power.

Easier to deal with if everything is on

the same phase and ground.

Although large amplifiers have the "potential" to draw quite a bit of

current, it's rarely the case.

My old man works on stuff like MRI systems

and says there is plenty of scientific evidence and his own personal

experience point to some equipment being able to muck-up the power for

other equipment on the same circuit. I would do this in addition

to some type of power center.

Those would be most appliances with motors or dimmers (including light dimmers).

[damonrpayne]

OK, here is my electrical diagram. Only thing I'm not sure on is the location of the dimmer. I might also do some "electric baseborad heat" somewhere, this was the building inspector's idea, but I need to see what it looks like.

[formica]

I might also do some "electric baseborad

heat" somewhere, this was the building inspector's idea, but I need to

see what it looks like.

Most all electric heaters available here are 2phase, 240V units... so

you'd need to set asside two breaker slots for it. Something to

plan now...

Here is a typical 4' (1000W, 240V) unit in action... http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/storage/7/720123/IMG_4626.jpg

later...

ROb

[damonrpayne]

My room is in a basement, are you glad you did that electrical heat strip? If I go with those, sounds like I will be forced to bring a second box in from the outside. This is already going to take a ton of time and money but I'm committed to doing it right.

[colterphoto1]

never mind then.

[damonrpayne]

colter, You are on the attack today! Bad Damon!

As I indicated, I have to get an electrician anyway since the permits require a licensed fellow do the work. As for my failure in planning, I am willing to put up with some crap now compared to god knows what kind of crap I would have had to put up with if I'd tried to have my builder color outside the lines they are used to. Example: we picked a dual-fuel stove and therefore needed them to add an electrical plug for the oven, thinking this was no big deal. It took 3 weeks to get this done.

[colterphoto1]

okay, but at least get the horse ahead of the cart. Don't be in such a hurry. Please carefully consider your use of the room and where everything will be situated before you go through the ergonomics of ceiling light, outlet, and switch placement.

Also please consider the use of the NEXT owner of the home. I know you may intend to stay there for quite a while after your efforts, but families outgrow homes. At some point in the future, your home WILL be resold. So, within your planning and specialized uses, don't do anything that would be detrimental to someone elses use of the space and therefore your resale value.

Damon, I've don remodeling for years when I was younger. Mostly finished basements. So please take my advice in the spirit in which it is intended (which we're doing so far) I'm not attacking your abilities so much as trying to protect you from further frustration. Remember the value of YOUR time and labor. And that mistakes come out of your pocket. Perhaps in the long run it would be best for you to work some overtime and hire out most of the work.

Framing may look easy, but if you don't get it right, it'll be a pain to hang drywall, and if you do an ugly job of hanging drywall, you'll be forever sanding the mud to try to get the walls flat. A DIY job is clearly visible to realtors and home inspectors. You do want to increase the equity in your home so it needs to be as good of quality as upstairs (perhaps this isnt' saying much).

Is your garage finished? Hang a couple sheets of drywall and try mudding them up so that it makes a perfect seam- flat for painting so the seam is invisible. Are you up to the task of doing an entire room that way? Just a thought to let you experiement.

Michael

[formica]

My room is in a basement, are you glad you did that electrical heat strip?

My entire home was converted to electrical baseboard heating by a

previous owner some time in the 70's (it was a trend around

here).

Although they are incredibly quiet, reliable, and efficient...

electricity isn't the least expensive energy source. I do live in

a province with some of the least expensive electricity in North

America and baseboard heaters are also very inexpensive initially.

My room is also in the basement, and I live in a cold climate.

Sorry Damon, if you haven't planned in

advance for the electrical requirements of a dedicated theatre room you

were determined to build, you've already failed in the planning

department.

Consult a qualified licensed electrician.

I doubt that you'll have success depending on advice from the Forum alone.

Someone's grumpy tonight...

I think Damon's a smart enough fellow to know what's in his capacity.

Given his dissatisfaction with his builder... I agree with him

contracting it out himself. He's got time to brainstorm and plan

out the minute details that would be costly time-wasters for any

professional.

Once he's established what he'd like... he can still get it finalised /

verified by a professional (some whom are members on these forums

BTW...).

ROb

[Joe Shmoe]

Ah.... just go buy an electric "how to" book and do it yourself! I am no electrician either, but I have wired up quite a few rooms myself... it's really not tough to do. I bought one that black & Decker put out at Home Depot a few years ago... it came with all kinds of wiring diagrams... piece of cake!

Also on your heating issue... are you able to just use your forced air ducts & put the basement on it's own zone/seperate thermostat? That's the way I would go if in new construction. It would require it's own trunkline if possible, but it would be worth it.

[artto]

Make sure your audio circuits have a separate isolated ground from the rest of the circuits in the house. Then ground only one main component at the outlet, "lift" (float) all the other equipment (grounds) connected to it so that there can be only one path back to the isolated ground. Let the electrical ground "seek its own level" to avoid ground loops and obtain the lowest noise floor.

[Joe Shmoe]

Make sure your audio circuits have a separate isolated ground from the rest of the circuits in the house. Then ground only one main component at the outlet, "lift" (float) all the other equipment (grounds) connected to it so that there can be only one path back to the isolated ground. Let the electrical ground "seek its own level" to avoid ground loops and obtain the lowest noise floor.

Exactly how is this achieved?

[Tom Adams]

- Projector gets its own circuit Not needed

- Lights and the code-required outlets on a circuit Yes

- Amps on a circuit Yes

- DVD/transport/preprocessor on another circuit. Not needed

I would have two circuits Damon: 1) A dedicated 30 amp service for all of your A/V equipment (sans projector) and 2) 15 amp service for everything else.

While I can respect and accept your Dad's thought's about "clean power" and what not, if you use a decent surge protector/power conditioner, you don't need to go through a bunch of rig-a-ma-role for your rooms' power needs. I have a single dedicated 30 amp feed to my A/V equipment, am running dual power amps, and my system is dead quiet. And your projector could care less about "clean power". Any slight change in voltage or line noise would have such insignificant effect on picture quality that it would take highly sensitive test equipment to detect - and even then I doubt there would be any.

As for running wires, do as Joe Shmoe says. Pull the wires, wire up all the outlets, and then hire an electrician to make the service panel connection and to buy-off the work.

Oh, and this is just MHO, but track lights??? Dude, those are so out of style. Besides, why would you want something hanging from the ceiling in a theater room? It'll just draw your eye to it when watching a movie. And if you wanna get wrapped around the axle about something, think about recessed lighting proper placement or where that ceiling outlet needs to be place based upon the throw distance of the projector you've yet to settle on! Now THAT is something to worry about.

Damon, I like you, but you need to get a grip on your obsessiveness. [] []

Tom

[Tom Adams]

Make sure your audio circuits have a separate isolated ground from the rest of the circuits in the house. Then ground only one main component at the outlet, "lift" (float) all the other equipment (grounds) connected to it so that there can be only one path back to the isolated ground. Let the electrical ground "seek its own level" to avoid ground loops and obtain the lowest noise floor.

Exactly how is this achieved?

You pull a separate run from the service panel to the outlet. The ground wire on this run is tied to the panel's ground buss. The surge protector (SP) would be plugged into this outlet and I'm thinking that one would plug in, say, your receiver or pre/pro to the SP and then all other equipment would have a so-called cheater plug between their power cord plug and the SP. Does that make sense?

My Parasound Halo amps have a "lift" switch and the manual suggests that the amps be in the "lift" position.

Tom

[artto]

Make sure your audio circuits have a separate isolated ground from the rest of the circuits in the house. Then ground only one main component at the outlet, "lift" (float) all the other equipment (grounds) connected to it so that there can be only one path back to the isolated ground. Let the electrical ground "seek its own level" to avoid ground loops and obtain the lowest noise floor.

Exactly how is this achieved?

The circuit's ground has to be its "own wire", leading outside the house where it is connected to a long iron rod driven into the ground. It doesn't share a common ground by any means with any of the other circuits in the house.

As far as floating the ground goes, let's say you have some kind of power supply/conditioner/surge protector which feeds all of the rest of your components. This component should be grounded to the circuit/outlet via the typical three pin AC plug. Any other components, connected to each other, or directly to the power supply should have their grounds "lifted or floating", as it is called, preferably by using a 3:2 AC plug adaptor.

[colterphoto1]

Projectors have zooms, but some are fairly limited. I would highly suggest that you decide upon and purchase your projector and screen, then do the math or better yet, set up the system so you know exactly where your A/C and feeds for the projector need to be in the ceiling.

Remember to put very stable plywood panel in the ceiling so you have something very solid to attach the projector brackets to. You cannot mount to drywall.

Michael

[formica]

Projectors have zooms, but some are fairly

limited. I would highly suggest that you decide upon and purchase your

projector and screen, then do the math or better yet, set up the system

so you know exactly where your A/C and feeds for the projector need to

be in the ceiling.

Michael's got a good point... and perhaps I can help you avoid making the same mistake as me.

You see, all the projector calculators assume you will be using the

projector's native resolution ratio (eg: 16:9) but this won't be true

if you want to go with a CH (constant height) and are watching a 2.35:1

film. In that case you will be projecting a much larger image...

and the projector will have to be a couple of feet further back.

For now, I will be installing my unit about 18" behind my hush box. []

ROb

[picky]

Damon: Lots of good advice here. artto (isolated ground) and Tom Adams (30 amp home run) in particular.

Here's what I did in our HT and it is dead quiet:

All room X-10 automated (and dimmed) lighting (both low voltage and line voltage) share one, dedicated 20 amp circuit on the right leg of the main box.

All rack components and projector share one 20 amp home run circuit from the left leg of the box. All essential components are fed from a 20 Amp, Tripp Lite LCR2400 Power Line Conditioner on this circuit that has an isolated ground.

Room outlets are on two separate 15 amp circuits (one right-leg one left leg). The sub is plugged into one of these circuits that is on the left leg of the box with a Tripp Lite in-line filter.

No hum, no noise, no hiss.

Should you need more circuits, adding a break-out box shouldn't be a big deal. Naturally, it's always better to upgrade your service, but heck, yours is new! When I moved in, we had only 60 Amp service and fuses (**groan**). Then, we went to 100 Amp service. Now, we're at 150 AMP and all 30 breakers are in use.......and we only have a 750 sq ft house!

Best of luck! -Glenn