Wiring

[Landyt]

Simple question for most I'm sure...Is there really a noticeable difference in performance or problem if one speaker (L or R) is connected with a much longer wire? As in a difference of Left at +/- 32ft to Right at +/- 52ft??

Thanks

[DRBILL]

The quick answer is NO. There will certainly be other opinions. Keep in mind that the operative word is "noticeable".

DRBILL

[PrestonTom]

I certainly agree with DrBill on both points.

Incidentally, with these long runs make sure the gauge is no smaller than 16 or 14 (preferably),

Good luck,

-Tom

[Landyt]

Thanks, I've always beenanal about that because of something I read probably 30 years ago.

[Groomlakearea51]

You are correct, as is probably everyone; in regards to equal lengths. On gauge, you can get away with 16 gauge up to about 50', after that the freq loss will begin to take effect; I set up a recording studio several years ago for a friend of mine using JBL studio monitors; he wanted "neat" equal runs, and I reffrerred him to the JBL folks who specifically said, equal runs; 3-12' can be 18 gauge, 12-25' can be 16 gauge; 25-50' can be 14 gauge; and 50 plus needs to be 14+ and preferably 12 gauge.

The problem with unequal wire runs is the resistance. Longer the wire, greater the resistance, thus thicker the wire (or technically, the greater surface area of the wire along which current tries to flow). Uneven wire runs, particularly over 20% difference is where it begins to affect the amplifier's output due to what the amp sees as lower ohms on one side.

To this day, to the dismay of my wife (remember the wife acceptance factor - WAF...) at least one pair of speakers ends up with a large loose coil of speaker wire hidden somewhere. On that note, a loose irregular coil is important due to mag field with unshielded (or low shielded speaker wire) coils.

Hope that helps a bit.

[Landyt]

Let me make sure I'm clear in reference to your statement: (Longer the wire, greater the resistance, thus thicker the wire or technically, the greater surface area of the wire along which current tries to flow).

Do I understand you to equate thicker wire, (re. 12 guage vs 14 guage) to create similar higher reistance as does the longer run?

Thanks for help. LT

[colterphoto1]

A slight problem with trying to use equal lengths of wire for unequal distances is that the excess tends to be coiled somewhere. Coiled wire can cause problems of it's own.

Just use adequate lengths of a suitable gauged wire and you'll be ok. Heck I just use 14 ga zip cord from the hardware store. Sounds like music to me. Don't spend too much.

M

[Groomlakearea51]

LT

Sorry if I was unclear, I get that way sometimes... I'm banned from giving directions to the house by my wife....

It was first explained to me years ago like this; think of it as sort of like a pipe, bigger diameter with same flow, less "pressure" or resistance.The longer the wire, the greater resistance; thus if you increase the size or diameter of the wire (the lower gauge #) you have increased the available area, or diameter through which the current can flow, thus less resistance.

General rule is to use the largest gauge shielded wire that's practical. I generally use 14 gauge "zip" cord because my runs are only about 30' maximum. 12 gauge is really thick, but can be problematic when it comes to the speaker terminal fittings on amps and speakers. Not a problem with Klipsch speakers because they have the screw/nut fittings and I just buy good quality "circle" crimp style clips, insert the thick wire, crimp them, and screw them down.

M's also right about "zip" cord in his comment and his comment about coiling extra wire. Loose and irregular is the rule; actually I make back and forth "loops" and keep the wires at least 2-3 inches apart.

Zip cord from the hardware store is actually a real good economical choice; it's fairly cheap, you can buy a spool, comes in white and brown, etc (Wife Acceptance factor...)., and it's fairly well shielded.

In the end run, Dr. Bill had the best answer; if it's not audible, it's probably ok and audible is the key;

Possible Idea... Use a 1k tone generator through the amp (some tuners have that capability), take a multi-meter and test the resistance at the speaker terminals and see if it's the same. Adjust wire length and gauge accordingly.

Anybody know if this would work?

V/R Marshall Muros

[Jay481985]

simply put it:

if the gauge is of proper gauge and within resistance lengths, the speed of electricity is what 186000 mph?

opps edit 186000 mps not hour but second

[Groomlakearea51]

Need to git' me one of them there speedometers! My auto shop buddy, "Bubba", said he'd really love to find out just how fast ole' "Linerd Skinerd" is playin' that "down home" song on those big ole' Klipschorns... I told him it probably has some connection to how much beer he's had before listnin' to em'....

[artto]

Thanks, I've always beenanal about that because of something I read probably 30 years ago.

For years I kept precisely equal lengths of wire to each speaker system. I finally asked the same question you have and was told NO by a respectable and reliable source. I cut the wires to a convenient length for each speaker. All I can tell you is if anything, it may have made an improvement. What do you do with all that extra wire from one side? It seems the effects of having all that extra wire coiled or piled (preferred) up on the floor is potentially more detrimental than any imbalance between the speakers that might be caused unequal resistance loads due to the unequal lengths of wire.

[Groomlakearea51]

You're right. In the end run (no pun intended), as long as the wires are of sufficient quality and gauge, the effects of unequal lengths are most likely insignificant, especially at the average distances that most folks would encounter at home. It will always be a matter of individual choice, and of course what's practical.

[pauln]

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/727552.aspx

This unequal wire thread covers this question... and more.

[Groomlakearea51]

This is becoming a very interesting forum subject because of the wide range of experience, etc.

I followed pauln's suggestion and read the entire "thread". Thought about it (alot because of the electron thing which has me really worried at night now...).

But seriously, went back through everything, notes, literature, manuals, etc., I've collected along the way, and the one common theme from OEM speaker engineers, retailers, etc., always seems to be the quality and the gauge of the wire. Once the gauge is below, say 16, the effects of unequal length become insignificant.

That being said, there's an interesting comment in the thread that pauln cites about 10 gauge copper wire. Is this "construction code" solid core A/C wire?.

Question I'm pondering (The Wife Acceptance Factor (WAF) appears again here.) She has asked me about this on several occasions:

Could one, theoretically (or in practice) simply run AC code wire "sets" from where the amps are (or may be) located, through the walls up to the attic area, or down to crawlspace, etc., to terminate in different locations in the room(s) where one might want to put speakers. It would be a very real pain, but the end result would be nice looking "jack plates" at strategic locations to hook amps and/or speakers. Given the heavy insulation/ shielding, king kong gauge, solid copper, etc., there should not be any problems?

Ideas?

[Coytee]

I don't know about using say 12-2 electrical wire for stereo signals, but coudln't you simply run 12g "speaker wire" for both locations and still terminate with the jack plates?

Seems the speaker wire would be a LOT less of a headache to pull than the solid wire?

At least, for me, pulling electrical wire is a real pain in the hiney.

[pauln]

Whatever wire is used, I would want to be sure each lead is independant from the others end to end so as to avoid a tree pattern where the amp is the trunk and the speakers are only hanging on one branch of many. Long lengths of wire connected at only one end tend to get lonely and will try to make conversation by pulling radio waves.

[Groomlakearea51]

You are right; best FM antenna I ever had (and still do it today...) is a split 12 gauge speaker wire piece about 8' long, on the back of the rack/cabinet unit. I make a "yagi" setup, and aim it until I have the strongest signal for the NPR station about 50 miles east (closest station anyway...); tack it down on interior of rack/cabinet until I move the tuner/ amps, etc. WAF factor is ok 'cause she can't see it...

[rcarlton]

A terrific resource on speaker wire can be found at

Speaker wire a history.

He provides tables for

maximum wire lengths for copper wire. Roger Russell is well thought of

in the Audio Industry.

[Groomlakearea51]

Also check McIntosh Labs; while they don't discuss lengths, they do specify heavier gauge in the owner's manuals (14 and 12, dependent upon length of the runs).

[Guest " "]

I didn't see a response to your question...

A lot of marketing follows the notion that multi-stranded fine wire bundled in a high gage package transports the upper sound spectrum better than solid core wire which is marketed as transporting the lower end better.

The premium wire have solid strands, average size strands, as well as fine strands of wire.

While I can tell the difference between a 100 dollar cable and a 4 dollar cable....when I added 2 new rooms to my house I did not think the cost of premium wire for a prewired 7.1 setup was justified and elected to use highly stranded wire bundled in a large gage package which was pretty cheap at a local home improvment outlet. I used this wire for runs that went to wall plates for wall mounted small cube speakers, which do not recieve a lot of bass signals.