What PC player do you use?

[LarryC]

I have been very struck by how much better music sounds on Macs than on PCs even when using iTunes on both. My music teacher says "there's a reason" he and his fellow faculty members use Macs instead of Windows/PCs.

Using the same amplifier and speakers? Using the same D/A on both platforms and running iTunes, you really shouldn't be able to tell the difference

No, [edit:] not the same amp or speakers.[end edit] I'm not sure what you mean by the D/A or the same D/A. I listen to music theory teaching exercises on a teaching CD on my PC at home, switching between Winamp and iTunes for reasons of convenience (I can't hear a difference between the two programs on my PC). Afterward, my teacher and I listen to the same exercises on the same CD, via iTunes on his Mac. On the Mac, the notes (bass, treble, mid -- you name it) that I sometimes found hard to hear at home are much clearer. He thinks I should get a Mac, incidentally.

I've tried to improve my PC's sound -- I replaced Dell's sound card with a Soundblaster, and the Dell speakers with Klipsch Promedia 2.1's. While improvements were made, the Mac is still clearer. I don't know the components in the chain, but I suppose the difference could be in the disc player itself, the initial electronics in the CPU (whatever those might be), the sound card, and speakers/amp. I don't know where a D/A would sit in that chain, but I would think the Mac could differ in any of those elements. I know that the Mac's iTunes is a much more sophisticated program than iTunes for PCs.

Larry

[Shade]

As theear and I stated in the pc section, we use winamp 5.03 or

whatever version 5 is out with the mad plugin. The mad plugin is one of

the few codecs that can fully process mp3s to their full potential. We

also run the the xfi card which can be brought around 90 dollars and is

the latest and greatest.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/693643.aspx

to download the mad plugin http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/mad-plugin/

the specs of the mad plugin are at http://www.underbit.com/resources/mpeg/audio/compliance/

Just tried this out. Sort of mixed feelings on it at the moment. It does seem to open the mp3s up a bit, but the treble seems a bit hotter. Could be my system, or it could be the fact that I haven't heard a cd on the system for a while (moving soon, all packed away). I'll have to play around with it a bit more in a couple weeks when I'm moved.

For reference I'm using winamp 5.08 & an M-audio revolution sound card using the digital output.

[Seadog]

Used Winamp for years. Recently got an iPod Nano, so now I use iTunes mostly.

[wheelman]

For just listening to music on my computer it's media player all the way. Perfect for me, and when I use the latest quicktime it gets kind of crappy sounding from time to time ( stutters). So I stick with media player for music, quicktime for trailors, and other web content that requires quicktime, Windvd for movies absolutely the best for me. < the last one is my favorite.[]

I'm not knockin quicktime it's great for somethings ( can't live without it), but for some reason it's not the greatest for music on my setup.

[Marvel]

Duke,

Glad to see your mug on here. Been thinkin' of ya.

Bruce

[Jay481985]

As theear and I stated in the pc section, we use winamp 5.03 or

whatever version 5 is out with the mad plugin. The mad plugin is one of

the few codecs that can fully process mp3s to their full potential. We

also run the the xfi card which can be brought around 90 dollars and is

the latest and greatest.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/693643.aspx

to download the mad plugin http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/mad-plugin/

the specs of the mad plugin are at http://www.underbit.com/resources/mpeg/audio/compliance/

Just tried this out. Sort of mixed feelings on it at the moment. It does seem to open the mp3s up a bit, but the treble seems a bit hotter. Could be my system, or it could be the fact that I haven't heard a cd on the system for a while (moving soon, all packed away). I'll have to play around with it a bit more in a couple weeks when I'm moved.

For reference I'm using winamp 5.08 & an M-audio revolution sound card using the digital output.

I find the bass is more there and imaging is much better. But agreed on the treble but to me I rather have a bit hot with the bass and the imaging then dead lifeless sound of the winamp regular codec. I only use the regular codec to change the id3 cause mad does not accept the new i2d3 or whatever is the standard now

But try listening to mad for an hour or so and turn the mad plugin off and listen to the regular codec and you will find it lifeless and boring. BTW are you sure you turned off the winamp codec by removing the mp3 in the imput and turning the mad plugin on?

[DrWho]

i tried itunes, tried media player, skipped all the other third party player apps and jumped into a linux based appliance to play mp3s.

quality is amazing...so don't rule out players on linux.

if any one has some recommendations...chime in.

What flavor of linux are you running and what player are you using? I will be moving to a dual boot shortly and am looking for media players that way I don't have to reboot into windows to get sound.

[DrWho]

I

have been very struck by how much better music sounds on Macs than on

PCs even when using iTunes on both. My music teacher says "there's a

reason" he and his fellow faculty members use Macs instead of

Windows/PCs.

Using the same amplifier and speakers? Using the

same D/A on both platforms and running iTunes, you really shouldn't be

able to tell the difference

No, [edit:] not the same amp or

speakers.[end edit] I'm not sure what you mean by the D/A or the

same D/A. I listen to music theory teaching exercises on a teaching CD

on my PC at home, switching between Winamp and iTunes for reasons of

convenience (I can't hear a difference between the two programs on my

PC). Afterward, my teacher and I listen to the same exercises on the

same CD, via iTunes on his Mac. On the Mac, the notes (bass, treble,

mid -- you name it) that I sometimes found hard to hear at home are

much clearer. He thinks I should get a Mac, incidentally.

I've tried to improve my PC's sound -- I replaced Dell's sound card

with a Soundblaster, and the Dell speakers with Klipsch Promedia

2.1's. While improvements were made, the Mac is still clearer. I

don't know the components in the chain, but I suppose the

difference could be in the disc player itself, the initial electronics

in the CPU (whatever those might be), the sound card, and

speakers/amp. I don't know where a D/A would sit in that chain, but I

would think the Mac could differ in any of those elements. I know that

the Mac's iTunes is a much more sophisticated program than iTunes for

PCs.

Larry

What kind of soundblaster did you get? They have some pretty crappy

cards, but the audigy ones are fine (they use the same circuitry as the

EMU cards...which is very similar to the M-Audio stuff).

The D/A or DAC is the device that takes the digital signal and converts it to an analog signal.

We use both a mac and a pc in the studio and the sound quality between

the two is the same. And last time I checked iTunes was the same on

both computers too? It has everything to do with the hardware that

you've got connected to the computers.

Btw, don't the mac's only support digital outputs? I don't recall there ever being an analog output?

[DrWho]

crap, i almost forgot to mention....I use winamp.

I would like to use foobar but it's way too ugly and clumsy. I'm sure

there are ways to fix it, but I'm too lazy to figure it out.

[Marvel]

Dr. Who,

Have a look at DSL (Damn Small Linux). It it only 50 megs, can load totally into memory when running, taking up like 25 meg or ram. It has an audio player with it as well, but I assume you can install another if you like. Comes with XMMS, for audio and video, can be a web server app. Can boot off of a usb stick and even run on a 486 with 16 meg of ram. It is based on Debian.

It runs very, very fast, and comes with a remote desktop sharing app to let you connect to Windows servers (and is much, much faster than a desktop sharing program like Remote Admin).

Bruce

[BEC]

I use iTunes on a Mac and yes, Macs have an analog output.

Bob Crites

[Guest " "]

I have an linux appliance. It has a remote, has a display on the device, has audio grade connections, if you open it up, it looks like a PC on the inside, but no keyboard, mouse, monitor. it looks like a dvd player.

don't know what type of linux it is...there is no boot up screen

[LarryC]

What kind of soundblaster did you get? They have some pretty crappy cards, but the audigy ones are fine (they use the same circuitry as the EMU cards...which is very similar to the M-Audio stuff).

The D/A or DAC is the device that takes the digital signal and converts it to an analog signal.

We use both a mac and a pc in the studio and the sound quality between the two is the same. And last time I checked iTunes was the same on both computers too? It has everything to do with the hardware that you've got connected to the computers.

It's an Audigy 2ZS. Are you saying I wouldn't notice any difference if I got an M-Audio 2496? If so, I won't bother.

When it comes to note-by-note clarity in complex passages, and hearing obscure details in the bass (important in studying music theory), my teach's Mac is clearly superior even through it's own speakers! iTunes is laid out differently on his Mac, has more complicated functions that allow him to use his keyboard to go right to a passage he wants to repeat. I haven't seen that kind of capability in the Windows iTunes.

What's a usb stereo sound device, and would that have any advantage?

Thanks -- Larry

[DrWho]

Well I've not tried the M-Audio cards, but everyone that has switched

from the audigy seems to prefer M-Audio. My comment regarding their

similarity has to do with the physical chips they are using in the

cards. I too use an Audigy 2 ZS and have to say that it sounds very

similar to the expensive gear we are running in the studio...

Getting the Audigy cards set up correctly is a bit hard to do as there

are half a dozen menus with all sorts of wierd processing that messes

with your audio. You really shouldn't notice any difference in the bass

when going between different sound cards so I'm thinking some weird

processing is turned on somewhere....or your friend with the Mac is

using a built-in equalizer.

Have you done a side by side comparison with the same set of speakers?

Room acoustics and perhaps some issues with your speakers are just a

few variables that might explain your experiences.

And for the sake of mentioning it, the Mac does have a very good sound

card. (So hopefully nobody is interpreting this as mac bashing).

[LarryC]

OK, based on the multiple preferences for M-audio, I may spring for it next month. I did have to search hard to find those Audigy menus. And, it's true that there is little difference in the bass between the 3 cards I've had in my Dell PC.

However, the greater clarity in my teacher's Mac is certainly not a difference in equalization (I have equalization in the Audigy, too) or room acoustics -- it's out-and-out clarity. I doubt that a side-by-side is needed, since I have consistently heard notes on his, whether at his home, his old office, or his new office, that were relatively muddied and obscured on mine. The context for this is the need to hear linear and harmonic details in demanding music theory exercises, and that will show up the differences.

[DrWho]

Is he using the same speakers?

[LarryC]

No, they're little speakers that came with the Mac, whereas I started off with the Dell so-so's followed by the Promedias. I'd like to fix it if I could (I'd like to hear the musical details at home instead of having to wait for the session with him), but don't know how unless an M-Audio does the trick.

More recently, the college has allotted him a full-fledged compact system which he uses with me now, and that's much better yet. Still....

[Shade]

As theear and I stated in the pc section, we use winamp 5.03 or whatever version 5 is out with the mad plugin. The mad plugin is one of the few codecs that can fully process mp3s to their full potential. We also run the the xfi card which can be brought around 90 dollars and is the latest and greatest.

http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/693643.aspx

to download the mad plugin http://www.mars.org/home/rob/proj/mpeg/mad-plugin/

the specs of the mad plugin are at http://www.underbit.com/resources/mpeg/audio/compliance/

Just tried this out. Sort of mixed feelings on it at the moment. It does seem to open the mp3s up a bit, but the treble seems a bit hotter. Could be my system, or it could be the fact that I haven't heard a cd on the system for a while (moving soon, all packed away). I'll have to play around with it a bit more in a couple weeks when I'm moved.

For reference I'm using winamp 5.08 & an M-audio revolution sound card using the digital output.

I find the bass is more there and imaging is much better. But agreed on the treble but to me I rather have a bit hot with the bass and the imaging then dead lifeless sound of the winamp regular codec. I only use the regular codec to change the id3 cause mad does not accept the new i2d3 or whatever is the standard now

But try listening to mad for an hour or so and turn the mad plugin off and listen to the regular codec and you will find it lifeless and boring. BTW are you sure you turned off the winamp codec by removing the mp3 in the imput and turning the mad plugin on?

Nope, I hadn't removed the nullsoft codec. Removed it & the treble doesn't seem as hot now. I have to agree that nullsofts codec does seem more lifeless after listening with the mad codec.

I think I'm going to leave it using the mad codec for a week or two, and then try listening with the nullsoft codec again. Should be plenty of time to figure out which I like better.

Thanks for the help.

[Jay481985]

as for the mac pc debate. I worked at the apple store and listened to every mac with the built in soundcard. That analog out is as much usefull as a third wheel. I mean its very low current, around the strength of headphones. The optical out though is much of an improvement but you need a digital out of a powermac not an imac. That headphone I find very lacking.

[Shade]

OK, based on the multiple preferences for M-audio, I may spring for it next month. I did have to search hard to find those Audigy menus. And, it's true that there is little difference in the bass between the 3 cards I've had in my Dell PC.

I'd reccomend trying out an M-Audio. I switched out an Audigy 2 for an M-Audio revolution card a while back, and immediatley noticed an improvement. This was using the digital out. Can't speak for the analog outputs on the M-Audio, haven't tried them.

Creative's new card, the X-fi, seems to have gotten good reviews, but given the difference I found between the Audigy & M-Audio cards, I'm rather hesitant to shell out the money without hearing one first.