RFP Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Well, after a fairly long absence (much home remodeling!), Ive been back to the forum, reading a lot of interesting stuff (some of which I actually understood). Im afraid that this has rekindled the spark of interest in upgrading my beloved Klipschorns. <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> Perhaps I might prevail on the goodness and the experience of the group to give me some insight regarding what I see as various upgrade options that I might want to do. First, a bit of background: I believe my Klipschorns to be from 1983 (the serial numbers start with 83). They are fitted with AK-3 networks and the plastic mid horn. My source stuff is essentially all tube gear. Audio Research VT-100 amp driven by a Sonic Frontiers SFL-2 preamp and Sonic Frontiers SFP-1 Signature phono stage. My music taste is pretty eclectic favoring the likes of Diana Krall, Mel Torme, classic Rock, Classical, etc really everything but C&W (!) My listening room is ~ 21 X 16 with 8 ceilings; adequately draped for damping. The K-horns are on the short wall (of necessity). Now to the upgrading part: My present thinking (as well as $$s available and overall tweaking ability) gives me these choices Leave everything as is except for replacing the AK-3s with the ALK Engineering basic upgrade networks. Replace the Klipsch mid driver/horns with Altec 511s with 806 drivers and the ALK Engineering basic upgrade networks. Replace the Klipsch mid driver/horns with MDF salad bowl horns (custom made for me by John Hasquin). These horns fitted with Dynaudio D54 drivers (actually cone speakers). Mr. Hasquin tells me that the flare frequency of the horns is 275Hz and the acoustical cutoff should be in the neighborhood of 450Hz. Im thinking that this set-up could be smooth as twenty-year old, single malt scotch! Oh yes,using the ALK networks. So, what do you think? Should I just go back and do some more house remodeling? All the best, Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Rob, Here's my recommndations: 1 - First and formost: Get rid of the K400 horn! Replace it with an Altec 511b if you don't mind how ugly it looks without fancy woodwork mods. A more expensive choice that is slightly better and will look a lot nicer is my Trachorn and grill frame. Keep the K55 midrange driver. 2 - The AK-2 is one of the better networks for the Khorn. I would replace it with my AP12-350 and the ES5800 set. My Universal ALK would be the second choice. 3 - A distant 3rd: Replace the K77 tweeter with Bob's CT125 tweeter or the Beyma CP25. Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 The salad bowl horns look very cool. I'd sure be interested to hear your take on the sound with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardhead Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 What Al K said. Would you truly get 104+ dB efficiency with a cone hooked up to a "salad bowl"? If you don't get at least that or, maybe just as important, don't get very close to exactly the same efficiency as the K-55, you'll probably have to customize your crossovers so the midrange and tweeter output levels match--$$$. Without a considerable amount of pre-installation testing to ensure that the cone/horn combination will do at least as much of what you want as the K-55/Trachorn or K-401 will, I wouldn't risk it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 I have a pair of ALK's for sale. These are the original with Hovlands. They were built to go outside of the speaker and I went a little (OK a lot) crazy with the design. They are built on marble and brass bases and were fabed on a CNC machine. Let me know if you are interested. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 If don't mind me asking, how much money do you have at your disposal for this project? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 Another pic: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVGuy Posted June 8, 2006 Share Posted June 8, 2006 "They are fitted with AK-3 networks and the plastic mid horn." AK-3 or AK-2? Shouldn't 83's have AK-2 crossovers? Are your crossovers original? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 "They are fitted with AK-3 networks and the plastic mid horn." AK-3 or AK-2? Shouldn't 83's have AK-2 crossovers? Are your crossovers original? Well, I bought these K-horns (used) from the good people at Audio Classics many years ago... ten years or so. They were drop-dead-gorgeous - truly mint condition - but I have no way to know if the networks are original. At any rate, I pulled one out from the wall a few minutes ago, and sure 'nuff the network was an AK-3, the speaker's serial number is 083799610 What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 If don't mind me asking, how much money do you have at your disposal for this project? Gosh, Dean, I think that you asked the question that I should have been asking all along!!! So, after thinking about this some more, I'd like to set a ceiling of $1,000. So, I suppose that I should re-frame my original query along the lines of what's the best Klipschorn upgrade for a kilobuck (for the pair, of course)? Thanks! Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 If don't mind me asking, how much money do you have at your disposal for this project? So, after thinking about this some more, I'd like to set a ceiling of $1,000. Well, maybe $1,500... especially if I could stretch it out over a couple (!) of months Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 I have a pair of ALK's for sale. These are the original with Hovlands. They were built to go outside of the speaker and I went a little (OK a lot) crazy with the design. They are built on marble and brass bases and were fabed on a CNC machine. Let me know if you are interested. Chris Beautiful, Chris... but no doubt too rich for my project's "budget" Thank you very much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 Rob, Here's my recommndations: 1 - First and formost: Get rid of the K400 horn! Replace it with an Altec 511b if you don't mind how ugly it looks without fancy woodwork mods. A more expensive choice that is slightly better and will look a lot nicer is my Trachorn and grill frame. Keep the K55 midrange driver. 2 - The AK-2 is one of the better networks for the Khorn. I would replace it with my AP12-350 and the ES5800 set. My Universal ALK would be the second choice. 3 - A distant 3rd: Replace the K77 tweeter with Bob's CT125 tweeter or the Beyma CP25. Al K. Thanks a million, Mr. K... I really do appreciate your insight and suggestions! Actually, I believe that the Altec 511Bs could be made to look quite "acceptable" if not downright good. I do have a well-equipped woodshop and probably adequate skills to remake the space between the top and the next panel (everything that is now blace grille cloth) so that it would look OK. However, using your Trachorn would certainly be easier. I wish that there were someone in the Dallas/Fort Worth area where I could hear both the Trachorn and the 511B set-up (or, either one, would be a good start). Last night, I was listening to Michael Murry, Bach (The Great Organ at Methuen), Telarc CD-80049, and it just sounded some combination of strident, congested, smeared, whatever. It seems that this kind of music reveals whatever it is that I want to "fix" with a sensible upgrade. Maybe this gives you some more basis on which to make recommendations. Oh, by the way, I re-checked and the networks are AK-3 not AK-2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 Oh, for what it's worth, my mid drivers have "push on" connectors instead of hard soldered connections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Me Loves Khorns Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Hey, I live in Waco Texas, and don't have anywhere easy to go to listen to some of these mods that people talk about on the forum. Does anyone think that some modded Khorns will be at the Pilgrimige? Paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Rob, Yes! If you have the woodworking skills you can tuck a 511b inside a khorn and make it look like it was there all along! I put 811b horns in my Belles before I had the Trachorns and it looked quite nice. The only tipoff was the spacers on either side to raise the top about 3/4 inch. If you have the AK-3 network you can save some money on upgrades. The woofer filter on the AK-3 is quite good. It only lacks the mirror image filter to make it constnat impedance. That is what my AP12-AK3 netwroks actually is. That combined with the ES5800 and you will be there! Al K Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RFP Posted June 9, 2006 Author Share Posted June 9, 2006 Rob, Yes! If you have the woodworking skills you can tuck a 511b inside a khorn and make it look like it was there all along! I put 811b horns in my Belles before I had the Trachorns and it looked quite nice. The only tipoff was the spacers on either side to raise the top about 3/4 inch. If you have the AK-3 network you can save some money on upgrades. The woofer filter on the AK-3 is quite good. It only lacks the mirror image filter to make it constnat impedance. That is what my AP12-AK3 netwroks actually is. That combined with the ES5800 and you will be there! Al K Thanks [again] Mr. K ! Thinking about all of this is great fun! I am sure that I could do a good job of incorporating the 511B into my Klipschorns... I have no doubt at all. What now worries me is "where to put the tweeter?" The 511B would leave no room to put it along side the mid (like your Trachorn provides), and I really don't want the overall height of the speaker to grow an additional whatever-the-tweeter-is-in-inches. Of course, I could build a little box for the tweeter to sit on the top (ugh). Or, I could spring for your Trachorns (!) ---------------------------------------------------------- Let's assume for a moment that I decided to go the Trachorn route. The cost of the Trachorns plus the cost of the new networks plus the cost of the Beyma CP25s (or whatever) run outside of my initial budget... So, I would just do it in phases. This being the case, which would you do first? Networks or Trachorns? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Go with the $1500 'stretch', it will be worth it. Trachorns, ALKs, and CTS-125 tweeters from Bob Crites -- and you're done. You can then later move up the network ladder and/or try the Beymas as funds permit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Paul -- you will get to hear the Jubilee, which will be about as close to a modded Klipschorn you will be exposed to over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerwoodKhorns Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 I have a pair of ALK's for sale. These are the original with Hovlands. They were built to go outside of the speaker and I went a little (OK a lot) crazy with the design. They are built on marble and brass bases and were fabed on a CNC machine. Let me know if you are interested. Chris Beautiful, Chris... but no doubt too rich for my project's "budget" Thank you very much Nope - I'm only asking $550 for the pair. They have seen minimal use and the marble and brass work is worth the $550 alone. I'm trying to get down to one pair of horns in the house so a lot of stuff needs to go. Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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