NOSValves Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 i tried SET..... looking to get rid of PP crossover notch distortion but I found " CREAM ' just wasn't for me So Duke what does crossover notch distortion sound like??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 The owner discovered the sonics of low powered SET amps and was not looking back. Bye bye VRD's. OOOOPS!!!!!!!!!! Talk about mis-Information!! The person selling the VRD's that you seem to use as an example of the great attributes of SET was a SET user and lover from the get go and just thought he would give high powered modern Push Pull a whirl. He listens in a very small room and just simply likes the more laid back limited frequency bandwidth of SET. I have no problem with it at all. To each is own. In fact he still owns numorous PP amps also (vintage rolled creamy types). The guy trades gear like kids use to trade BB cards. IMHO the internet is not the place to get solid information on audio gear. The best place is IN YOUR OWN SYSTEM. The mis-information comes from all camps on the internet. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Need I also remind you of a very recently posted sale of VRD amps. Yes, the amps you and others own, and think so highly of. What was the reason for sale? The owner discovered the sonics of low powered SET amps and was not looking back. Bye bye VRD's. Klipsch out. Yup! - You don't see too many people 'upgrading' from SET to Push-Pull amps. In fact, I can't recall any. I do in fact I have numorous customers on this forum that gave it up after a pair of VRD's entered the scene!! It goes both ways........ Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 i tried SET..... looking to get rid of PP crossover notch distortion but I found " CREAM ' just wasn't for me So Duke what does crossover notch distortion sound like??? Well, .... Howdy, ..Craig Sound Like ..??? I dunno ... SET people say it sounds bad... I can see it on a Scope ... can't Hear it, Tho ... Should I buy some VRD's to find out ...??? [] [] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 If you can see it on a scope then the amp is a POS!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Well this experiment has turned to CRAP............Why don't you guys have a DUEL and the winner gets to pick what's best.......................Keep Your SETS, if you cannot make a point with out the BS, insults, and NON-facts, why would anyone believe SET is best......Information is better than insults............Boy, I'm Glad I'm Dumb.........SS RULES It's interesting that the SET guys never show up at Klipsch get-togethers. It's make you think that they know that their amps would not impress. OldBuckster, SET fans are kind of cultlike in their intensity. They had to be split off into their own section at audioasylum because they were causing so many arguments with people who used other amplification. Now I guess they are reasonably happy, in their own little isolated world with no one disagreeing with them (on the essentials). Parot, you should come to the Hope gatherings there are usually 4 to 6 SET owners. I have seen 300b and 2a3 amps at Hope. I will be the first to say that my SET amps sounded like crap in 2004 @ Hope as they didn't have the right preamp, the room was huge, and the speakers not as efficient as my Belles. I was truly taken aback as they sounded absolutely nothing like they do in my room at my house. It was interesting and an important lesson for me in room and equipment. In fact when I got home and plugged everything back in I just shook my head because everything sounded great again. I wish I had brought them this year because we had a smaller room and khorns to listen with and I know for a fact they would have shined on that system. I can understand how someone would have a negative experience with SET amps. I am very thankful that everything came together for me and I had a positive experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 If you can see it on a scope then the amp is a POS!!! vintage Guitar amps, Craig .... poor design, for sure but, that's thier "sound" Valco. National..... look Baaadd .. on a scope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgod Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Oldbuckster, Where in upstate NY are you, I live in Utica NY. I will have a set of bottlehead paramounts 2A3 amps in a couple of weeks. They will be hooked up to a pair of klipsch Lascala speakers . If you seriously want to hear them let me now and perhaps we can work something out. My name is Mark Godlewski . Phone # 315 797-4053. I also have a set of Forte hooked up to a solid state Sony reciver. Have a old Fisher 400 tube receiver ,a HK 630 in the cellar not hooked up ,and just got rid of a Kenwood KR9600 super SS receiver ,have also owned a Cayin TA-30 tube . Have an old Fischer X-100C tube amp as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 "Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve Posted August 19, 2006 Share Posted August 19, 2006 Mark that is a generous offer! Hope Oldbuckster takes you up on it. Wish someone was close enough so I could check out some 2A3 amps! Of course, I wish the same about the VRDs! Kudos to you for being so neighborly to other forum members! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Oldbuckster, Where in upstate NY are you, I live in Utica NY. I will have a set of bottlehead paramounts 2A3 amps in a couple of weeks. They will be hooked up to a pair of klipsch Lascala speakers . If you seriously want to hear them let me now and perhaps we can work something out. My name is Mark Godlewski . Phone # 315 797-4053. I also have a set of Forte hooked up to a solid state Sony reciver. Have a old Fisher 400 tube receiver ,a HK 630 in the cellar not hooked up ,and just got rid of a Kenwood KR9600 super SS receiver ,have also owned a Cayin TA-30 tube . Have an old Fischer X-100C tube amp as well. Mark, that is a very nice gesture on your part..........Not many would want this old fart in their home...........I Thank You. Saratoga Springs area is where I call home, so we are not far apart, and I would like to hear a SET amp............that would be great, so I can hear what everyone is talking about, no matter what I read, nothing will beat hearing the sounds...............technical chatter is boring to me, because I don't understand the words, but me ears understand. If this "test session" happens it would need to be later in the fall, if that's alright...............There doesn't seem to be alot of Klipsch Guys around these parts, if there are,they are pretty quiet about it....................Will contact you at a later date......again..........Thank You for your offer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SET12 Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Oldbuckster, Where in upstate NY are you, I live in Utica NY. I will have a set of bottlehead paramounts 2A3 amps in a couple of weeks. They will be hooked up to a pair of klipsch Lascala speakers . If you seriously want to hear them let me now and perhaps we can work something out. My name is Mark Godlewski . Phone # 315 797-4053. I also have a set of Forte hooked up to a solid state Sony reciver. Have a old Fisher 400 tube receiver ,a HK 630 in the cellar not hooked up ,and just got rid of a Kenwood KR9600 super SS receiver ,have also owned a Cayin TA-30 tube . Have an old Fischer X-100C tube amp as well. Mark, that is a very nice gesture on your part..........Not many would want this old fart in their home...........I Thank You. Saratoga Springs area is where I call home, so we are not far apart, and I would like to hear a SET amp............that would be great, so I can hear what everyone is talking about, no matter what I read, nothing will beat hearing the sounds...............technical chatter is boring to me, because I don't understand the words, but me ears understand. If this "test session" happens it would need to be later in the fall, if that's alright...............There doesn't seem to be alot of Klipsch Guys around these parts, if there are,they are pretty quiet about it....................Will contact you at a later date......again..........Thank You for your offer Thats great communication and a great offer! I hope you guys get together and after you do please post a follow up on the experiance as I look forward to hearing about it! As for me My local club NEWAS or Northeastern Wisconsin Audio Society is hosting a round robin with four members homes next Saturday the 26th besides myself one of the members is a LaScala ower with DIY ALK crossover networks with a Cary kit 300B amp equiped with Western Electric 300B's and a Cary kit preamp vinly will be on hand at all but my place. The other two members have Martin Login CLS's and Druid loudspeakers all 4 of use are Tube Powered 3 out of four Single-Ended, Members attending the event have a wide varity of gear the number attending is still unknown but it could be at least a dozen! It should be a good time! And these events that we hold are great just for face to face communication. If someone doesn't like a system thats ok! Its the get together that counts! Theres always conversation with the human side of people! So If there is a Klipsch get together within a couple hundred mile range of me I'd attend whether tube or solid state equiped! SET12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markgod Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Mark, that is a very nice gesture on your part..........Not many would want this old fart in their home...........I Thank You. Saratoga Springs area is where I call home, so we are not far apart, and I would like to hear a SET amp............that would be great, so I can hear what everyone is talking about, no matter what I read, nothing will beat hearing the sounds...............technical chatter is boring to me, because I don't understand the words, but me ears understand. If this "test session" happens it would need to be later in the fall, if that's alright...............There doesn't seem to be alot of Klipsch Guys around these parts, if there are,they are pretty quiet about it....................Will contact you at a later date......again..........Thank You for your offer. Oldbuckster, You have my phone # . You are not that old ,I'm 53 myself. I can remember as a kid ,when I used to think 30 was old. Now its all relative,although lately there are some days when I am starting to feel older. I get out your way some times on my motorcycle. Try to ride out to the Great Sacandaga [not sure spelling] and eat at a place called the Sports Island Pub ,at least a couple of times during the riding season. So call me some time during the Fall,if its convenient . There is no way to really know without hearing for yourself. I started out with tubes by buying the old Fisher X100c ,still have it [not restored] ,bought it for around $150. For me I really like the sound of tubes better than SS ,refer to post #779800. There is in my opinion more seperation of the placement of instruments,and a more distinct sound, but the only way to tell if it is what you like,is to hear it for yourself. Me ,I will never go back to SS ,for listening to music. Mark G Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Mark, that is a very nice gesture on your part..........Not many would want this old fart in their home...........I Thank You. Saratoga Springs area is where I call home, so we are not far apart, and I would like to hear a SET amp............that would be great, so I can hear what everyone is talking about, no matter what I read, nothing will beat hearing the sounds...............technical chatter is boring to me, because I don't understand the words, but me ears understand. If this "test session" happens it would need to be later in the fall, if that's alright...............There doesn't seem to be alot of Klipsch Guys around these parts, if there are,they are pretty quiet about it....................Will contact you at a later date......again..........Thank You for your offer. Oldbuckster, You have my phone # . You are not that old ,I'm 53 myself. I can remember as a kid ,when I used to think 30 was old. Now its all relative,although lately there are some days when I am starting to feel older. I get out your way some times on my motorcycle. Try to ride out to the Great Sacandaga [not sure spelling] and eat at a place called the Sports Island Pub ,at least a couple of times during the riding season. So call me some time during the Fall,if its convenient . There is no way to really know without hearing for yourself. I started out with tubes by buying the old Fisher X100c ,still have it [not restored] ,bought it for around $150. For me I really like the sound of tubes better than SS ,refer to post #779800. There is in my opinion more seperation of the placement of instruments,and a more distinct sound, but the only way to tell if it is what you like,is to hear it for yourself. Me ,I will never go back to SS ,for listening to music. Mark G The Great Sacandaga Lake know it well, it is a favorite cruise spot for Me and Wife, or Son in my 911, use to take the Vette there all the time...........Gotta love the Batcherville Bridge...........I live less than a half hour from there..........Porters Corners....to the right of the lake on a map..........You must come up rt. 29........That's a man made Lake......Give me alittle time here I have somethings going on that will lay me up for awhile.........I'll get ahold of you...........Really appreciate the offer.........Thanks Again...............I am an old Fart, and I like it................I earned it........... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I'm glad the whole issue is finally settled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 I have an interesting proposition... So many people blindly ignore the technical data (measurements) on the basis that it doesn't line up with their actual listening experiences. Assuming the unlikely case that these people actually know how to accurately correlate the audibility of measurements, why don't they try to quantify what they deem to be better? If the human ear can hear something that sounds different (argued in this case to be better), then surely it must be measurable. The whole point of science is to observe something that doesn't make sense and then provide new explanations to improve the understanding of the situation. So if SET amps are so insanely superior, then I would love to see some emperical data to support the claim and then perhaps those favorable traits can then be integrated into modern designs. Or just maybe there have been engineers that have already tried this and have realized that the beneficial sonic attribute is actually old fashioned distortion. [] As far as power ratings go, you simply need to calculate the dynamic range of the music to which you listen and the average levels to which you listen. You can then compare this to the dynamic range and peak SPL capability of the amplifier in question. Some of my favorite music has 70 and 80dB transients...if I limit my peak SPL to even 110dB I would have to listen to my music at an average of 30dB...[] Nobody tell the SET crowd that some of these are classical recordings - not "stupid punk kid rocking out crap"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 Or just maybe there have been engineers that have already tried this and have realized that the beneficial sonic attribute is actually old fashioned distortion. [] I limit my peak SPL to even 110dB I would have to listen to my music at an average of 30dB..."... OUCH ....!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coda Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 one way to describe SET perhaps is that overall it can sound more organic, or less mechanical, than other topologies. the hard part it seems is building a baseline of measurements on the true nature of a sound before being able to actually measure a difference. click on the link below, and then close your eyes and listen. you might be able to describe natural versus unnatural, but where would the measurements begin.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 If the human ear can hear something that sounds different (argued in this case to be better), then surely it must be measurable. That's a really asinine statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted August 20, 2006 Share Posted August 20, 2006 click on the link below, and then close your eyes and listen. you might be able to describe natural versus unnatural, but where would the measurements begin.. Cool! I thought for sure that was one of the sublimest jazz cats I've ever heard, and then opened my eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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