tidmack Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 actually to be correct, both the khorn (with a false corner or better yet like the 60th khorn) and jubilee do not technically use the room to complete the horn.....but what a corner offers both is 1/8 space loading that makes the air that it has to couple to much easier to move than say out in the middle of field somewhere. Interesting. . .so the Jubilee does require corner placement? I guess what I'm really asking is the Jubilee designed to be placed in a corner, like the K-horn, or does the Jubilee just sound better in a corner, like many other speakers? Coytee, I like to visit Floyd Garrett's car museum down in southeastern TN. Next time I head down there, I'll be in touch. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 more like 21 hours away....(gotta pay the plane ticket) What we need is someone near Chicago to purchase a pair of Jubilees...[] ...OR, Roy could donate a pair to the Audio Engineering Society here on campus that way we can brag about the Klipsch name to all sorts of college kids who will one day be able to afford them in their own home [] All these guys think I'm crazy when I show them a tweeter bigger than the fridge in their bedroom [] 21 hours? I guess you think I live in Siberia? I've driven it and unless you're talking round trip, it's as I recall, about 11/12 hour drive to where I went. I drove there to pick up my Khorns... was in one of the south west suburbs as I recall. As for the big tweeter... the women love it [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Coytee, I like to visit Floyd Garrett's car museum down in southeastern TN. Next time I head down there, I'll be in touch. Is that the place in Gatlinburg? Seems to me I recall one or two car museums there? Perhaps in Pigeon Forge.. None the less, I'm probably a SOLID hour drive from there and if traffic is sparse, perhaps a couple minutes less. We've gone there before just to go to dinner, so it's not an outlandish drive, although I DID drive the back way instead of I-40. Just don't forget to bring your favorite cd's, I'll supply the Cokes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Oh, and I might want to add... I tried to move my left Jubilee out of the corner and down the wall. Without moving the tv, which dictates moving the electronics, which dictates moving the HEAVY amps, which dictates moving the table the tv sits on... I can't really move it far enough down the wall to emulate your setting. I ended up putting it back in defeat. If you've seen the pics of my room, you can get an idea of how crowded it is. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadBabyBoomer Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Coytee.... I thought you told me once that you could put your Jubs out in the garage, crank'em up and I could audition them out in Oklahoma?[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Coytee.... I thought you told me once that you could put your Jubs out in the garage, crank'em up and I could audition them out in Oklahoma?[] Well, that would be true but for the fact my garage faces south...[] So, unless you're admitting to having REALLY big ears, I'm afraid I'll have to bother the folks in Fl, GA and perhaps the Dtels... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jwc Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Coytee.... I thought you told me once that you could put your Jubs out in the garage, crank'em up and I could audition them out in Oklahoma?[] Well, that would be true but for the fact my garage faces south...[] So, unless you're admitting to having REALLY big ears, I'm afraid I'll have to bother the folks in Fl, GA and perhaps the Dtels... heck yeah....I can hear em down here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Roy Delgado said: "...the khorn (with a false corner or better yet like the 60th khorn) and jubilee do not technically use the room to complete the horn..." Just to clarify, because I want to make sure there is no misunderstanding -- finishing a Klipschorn the way the 60th Anniversary version is built completes the bass horn? As long as I've been around here it's always been said that the two walls on either side of the Klipschorn (48" of them) are required to finish the horn. Not true? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 I guess what I'm really asking is the Jubilee designed to be placed in a corner, like the K-horn, or does the Jubilee just sound better in a corner, like many other speakers? No, the corner doesn't complete the flare of the horn. The Jubilee speakers work just fine in Pro-Cinema applications where they are at best pushed up against a rear wall. But yes, just like every other speaker they improve with corner loading. With the Jubilee, there is just extra improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tidmack Posted November 9, 2006 Author Share Posted November 9, 2006 Who: Thanks! That's what I needed to know. Now let's see how tax returns go and how much I can save until spring. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Roy Delgado said: "...the khorn (with a false corner or better yet like the 60th khorn) and jubilee do not technically use the room to complete the horn..." Just to clarify, because I want to make sure there is no misunderstanding -- finishing a Klipschorn the way the 60th Anniversary version is built completes the bass horn? As long as I've been around here it's always been said that the two walls on either side of the Klipschorn (48" of them) are required to finish the horn. Not true? the klipschorn needs a corner because it has no panels to redirect the acoustic wave to the front of the cabinet; the walls do that now. that is one way paul made sure that it was placed in a corner and no where else. in the 60ths, we added the corner panels that the walls provide. boy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 9, 2006 Share Posted November 9, 2006 Trey and myself were talking about this a few years ago as I was beginning my false corner project -- He told me that Steve Phillips finished one of his Khorns with the short panels (same as the 60th Anniversary model is done). They put it out in the parking lot and took free space measurements, and I believe he told me that it was -3dB at 100Hz, with response dropping rapidly after that. Somewhere there is a thread where he also talked about this. I guess I'm confused, I mean -- it's a 50Hz horn. If the short panels complete the horn, it should do better than 100Hz in free space. I'm not being contentious, I just don't understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Let's see if I can take a stab at it..... The first thing is to think in terms of wavelength. The lower notes (<80Hz) are much bigger than the higher notes (>200Hz). Also, the "phase rotation" of the lower notes also moves slower - to visualize, picture a sine wave and note how long it takes to go from the peak to 75% of the peak...higher frequencies move faster than lower frequencies (in fact, you can define the frequency by the rate of phase rotation - it's essentially saying the same thing). Now go back to the khorn at the rear opening that is supposed to tuck into the corner...when you pull the speaker out from the wall a bit and create a larger gap, it is going to have a larger affect on the higher frequencies than the lower frequencies because the smaller wavelengths are going to travel further and will notice more phase rotation - putting the "reflections" out of phase. I say this loosely because it's a bit more involved with the acoustical impedance, but the point is that the larger wavelengths don't see as large of a change on the impedance (because they're just simply that much bigger and "wrap" around the issue). So...with that awful description in mind....it then makes sense that the further out you pull the speaker, the lower in frequency you start to notice the big drop. When measuring the speaker outside, you are essentially as far as possible from the corner - far enough that you no longer have any form of loading anymore. Your 300Hz hole in the response has now widened all the way down to 30Hz and below. But bring that back into perspective with the 60th anniversary Khorns...They have a short panel on the sides to ensure the higher frequencies pass through correctly. I would say this would have effective loading down to around 100Hz? (which corresponds to what Steve measured outside). However, as you push the speaker back into the wall, you eventually start adding a load to the lower frequencies...to the point that when you're within a foot or so you have effectively completed the horn for the lower frequencies and the higher frequencies don't see much of a difference. I hope that made sense....I'm kinda burnt out after a long night of mixing (aka unsuccesful suck removal), but I think I know what I'm talking about [] I might need to draw some pictures as they would make a lot more sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bodcaw boy Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Trey and myself were talking about this a few years ago as I was beginning my false corner project -- He told me that Steve Phillips finished one of his Khorns with the short panels (same as the 60th Anniversary model is done). They put it out in the parking lot and took free space measurements, and I believe he told me that it was -3dB at 100Hz, with response dropping rapidly after that. Somewhere there is a thread where he also talked about this. I guess I'm confused, I mean -- it's a 50Hz horn. If the short panels complete the horn, it should do better than 100Hz in free space. I'm not being contentious, I just don't understand. the load was 1/2 space. the horn is counting on at least 1/4, quasi 1/8 and of course 1/8 (corner) since the horn has been truncated to a short length. the horn is still a 40 hz horn but needs less air to move. you would be surprise to find out most "subs" roll off in free space but they are still tuned low. you can make it up but boosting or by changing how it is loaded. i use nearfield, a mic in the mouth of the horn or woof to see what the system can be capable of doing. maybe this will clear it up!! boy!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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