arfandbark Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 The 930 is boxed and shipped. Big brown truck headed towards Mississippi. She came from Florida and is headed back home to play the southern rock she plays so well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 DrWho, I wonder if the Power/THD plots for the Tripath amps in Dean's link are the sort distortion you were talking about.....? I'll post a Class D plot here for you. It compares favorably with most linear SS amps--and note the actual THD values at sub-watt power. If you are unconvinced re some 'inherant' Class D problem I can post one with even better numbers later..... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted November 29, 2006 Share Posted November 29, 2006 There's a big article in this month's The Absolute Sound about Class D amps, comparing around 9 or 10 of them. The "D" is a class designation. One of the writers in the magazine mentions that they are not digital amps and are actually analog in nature. The switching type operation doesn't make them digital. Pat on the Island Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I wonder if the Power/THD plots for the Tripath amps in Dean's link are the sort distortion you were talking about.....? It turns out the plots I saw were printed out and I'm working on obtaining them or finding them online. It was a good year ago and things are always changing on the websites [6] Dean's links looked close, but not as dramatic as I remember. Everything I've seen so far is similar, but I remember the distortion minimums being closer to the max output. I have no doubt my written description was lacking - maybe I should just draw a picture of what I remember if I can't find them. I've been doing some poking around looking at graphs, trying to find the dozen or so I remember, but like you said most everything is behaving fairly typical of pretty much any linear amplifier. Either the two guys were feeding us lines and I'm being a bit over zealous, or simply better amps are being built? There is certainly much more involved with the amp as a whole than just the distortion behaviors of the chips being used (so maybe they were talking about the chips?) For what it's worth, I have nothing against the "digital" amp toplogies - in fact, I hope they continue to improve as their efficiency is such a huge benefit in so many ways. But at the same time I can't ignore my ears. I would certainly love to hear some of the nicer more expensive units out there though. Ultimately, I think you're getting what you pay for with the inexpensive options. Bang for the Buck only works when the Bang is good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Ok, so I'm not crazy... The bottom left is from the amps we built in the workshop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 I've been doing some poking around looking at graphs, trying to find the dozen or so I remember, but like you said most everything is behaving fairly typical of pretty much any linear amplifier. Either the two guys were feeding us lines and I'm being a bit over zealous, or simply better amps are being built? There is certainly much more involved with the amp as a whole than just the distortion behaviors of the chips being used (so maybe they were talking about the chips?) For what it's worth, I have nothing against the "digital" amp toplogies - in fact, I hope they continue to improve as their efficiency is such a huge benefit in so many ways. But at the same time I can't ignore my ears. I would certainly love to hear some of the nicer more expensive units out there though. Ultimately, I think you're getting what you pay for with the inexpensive options. Bang for the Buck only works when the Bang is good enough. Pat--Yes they are analogue. Some are pseudo-digital ("power DACs") but most of the better ones are not. DrWho--I hope you get to hear one you like. Class D is actually really difficult to design so right now there are very few good amps out there--and lots of middling dreck. But the good ones really don't have any worry re matching specs or sonics with linear SS. The plot you indicate looks like a TA2024....? FYI: The amp I posted the THD/Power plot of is not a chip but 3"x3" discrete (see below): Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted November 30, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 30, 2006 The 930 is boxed and shipped. Big brown truck headed towards Mississippi. She came from Florida and is headed back home to play the southern rock she plays so well. arf, Thank you so much. Dtel is so overwhelmed by the generosity of the people on this forum, as am I. Meeting a lot of the members of this forum in Hope and the Klipsch employees showed me something that I had not seen in a long time. Genuine friendship and compassion. You guys, all of you are the best of the best... Dtel loves the "big brown truck". When he and the neighbor see "the big brown truck" they always say, "Someone is getting a new toy". This will be one of the times the "toy" is for dtel.[] As for Dr. Who and Rivendell...are you guys trying to hijack dtel's thread?[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 you're gonna dig that 930, I have it's little brothers, the 730 and 430 and they have some cojones! M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel's wife Posted November 30, 2006 Moderators Share Posted November 30, 2006 you're gonna dig that 930, I have it's little brothers, the 730 and 430 and they have some cojones! M Michael, It looks like it will get here right before you do, so you and dtel will have a "new toy" to play with.[H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 FYI: The amp I posted the THD/Power plot of is not a chip but 3"x3" discrete (see below) How much does it cost? and which model is it? All of the digital amps I've heard so far have been low powered and I don't think it can handle my listening tastes (I like my transients). 200W from such a small unit is quite impressive. You could mate that sucker with a nice torrodial power supply and fit it all in one of the Hammond Aluminum enclosures no problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 The pic looks like a Hypex module -- 90 watts. If I didn't think I would electrocute myself I would build one. I might try it anyways, but go for the multichannel version. http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?products_id=616 http://www.diycable.com/main/pdf/exodus_docs.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Dean got that pretty near. It is a Hypex UcD 400. He linked to a US dealer--or they can be bought direct from hypex for about 100 Euros (or 130 for the version with the Analog Devices 8620). By the time you get two, power supply, tranformer, etc.....it does get a bit steep just to be curious. Here is the link to the Hypex website: http://hypex.nl/ And here is the link to the module data sheet: http://hypex.nl/docs/UcD400_datasheet.pdf Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 Try to find a bad word about them and you can't. People are dumping their SET amps left and right for these things. The Red Wine Audio Signature 30 is kicking some serious *** too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 30, 2006 Share Posted November 30, 2006 People are dumping their SET amps left and right for these things. rofl - is that supposed to be a big deal? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 1, 2006 Share Posted December 1, 2006 LOL, I thought about that as I was typing out the post. I could have just said 'amps', which is true. However, it's a contingent of the SET camp that's been the most vocal about the attributes of the better chip amps. I used to own a pair of SET monoblocks that put out a sound a person could have lived with forever. I later tried some different SET amps that only lasted in my system a few hours. I don't doubt that the top shelf brands sound great, and it's the owners of those type amps that are giving them up for this new breed. These people have a zero tolerance for grain and hash in their sound, and I think to a large degree this is what they appreciate about them. The best push-pull can do it too, but those amps typically cost more than most good SET. The point is that these amps are being compared to the best amps out there, solid state and tube alike -- the stuff that runs from three to eight thousand dollars. This won't bring an end to tube gear -- but I think solid state as we have known it is finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 People are dumping their SET amps left and right for these things. rofl - is that supposed to be a big deal? [] Yeah--I wasn't sure if he was praising or damning. There are over-the-top subjective reviews of UcD module based amps like the Kharma Matrix: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue25/kharma_mp150.htm The specs do clearly indicate some of that--like the flat THD/frequency, and the load independant frequency response. Not 'chip' amps.... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 People are dumping their SET amps left and right for these things. . [] you can't say that here ...!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I'm repatraiting this thread and asking did the big brown truck show up??????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 One of you Dtels should check your porch... The big brown truck delivered.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 6, 2006 Share Posted December 6, 2006 People are dumping their SET amps left and right for these things. rofl - is that supposed to be a big deal? [] Yeah--I wasn't sure if he was praising or damning. There are over-the-top subjective reviews of UcD module based amps like the Kharma Matrix: http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue25/kharma_mp150.htm The specs do clearly indicate some of that--like the flat THD/frequency, and the load independant frequency response. Not 'chip' amps.... Mark lol...people with big fancy cables (especially power cords) scare me. I shouldn't make fun, but I loved this comment: I can tell it's a trio 'cause I recognize a guitar, drums, and sax If that's a big deal, then maybe that explains why all the SET users listen to the music they do...[] I am soooo kidding, but I couldn't resist [:#] Man, talk about going off topic! I'm looking forward to the dtel review on the old HK's - they really are quite the treat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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