jwc Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 For that money...get a Crown D45. Haven't heard it, but have heard enough votes here for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Hmmm, I'm not sure if I've heard the newer more expensive amp. The one I have on loan is the cheaper one. The interesting thing about these new digital amps is that their distortion decreases as you increase their output - until you reach the saturation point and then it shoots through the roof. As you decrease the output of the amp, the distortion rises steadily into eventually another large peak. It's one of the wierdest things ever - and something I first noticed during a critical listening test of a digital amp I built last year. The guy leading the workshop thought I was nuts until we busted out the distortion plots. I forget the reason for the behavior though, but it was something inherant in the topology according to replies we got from a few amp designers. You basically get a sweet spot at a particular volume. As far as the Sonic Impact....I really don't like the unfiltered power supply in the amp. Batteries are one of the worst sources when a constant voltage is the goal - as are the DC adaptor wall warts. You will notice a huge difference by moving to a torrodial transformer with filtering on its output... I suppose for their size and price they are impressive toys, but I couldn't imagine having nothing else for amplification... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 The interesting thing about these new digital amps is that their distortion decreases as you increase their output ... What's so unusual about that, it's classic solid state behavior. It doesn't use a 'wall wart'. I guess a general rule is the more filtering the better -- but it runs on 12v. I don't know much about amps, but I know what sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 Dtel, I have a working H/K 930 that you can try out. Be happy to send it to you. Talk to me. It's sitting unused in a corner... Keep in mind that Bodcaw Boy's Klipschhorn law #218 applies to receivers also due to the fact that there are amplifiers in the unit..... I like the 930 more than the 3480 you were talking about a couple months ago. I have both. The Sansui 8080 I also have but that little jewel is mine.. I'm more than happy to box up the 930 and send it to you. Let me know. Woof! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 I haven't listened to the 930 in a long time.... I'll pull it out of mothballs and fire it up, just to make sure she's okay. Gimmee 1/2 hour to test..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted November 26, 2006 Share Posted November 26, 2006 The 930 is up and running. WOW! I forgot how good it is! The tuner section is WAY better than my Sansui 8080db. Much stronger and more sensitive... Maybe my 8080 needs a tune up. Running Pearl Jam thru my Nakakmichi Cd player @ the moment with the volume @ 11:30 and no problems. Shaking the keys on my computer. Yeah, she's good. I'm using Cornwall 1's with 2yr old BEC crossovers and audioquest interconnects as well as speaker wire. What an ugly little critter. When you switch to Aux for the CD player the tuner lights go out. Just the little Aux. light is on. You'll have to listen to it with your eyes closed. The mode switch on this unit does not work. No reverse, L,R, or L + R. Do you care? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted November 27, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2006 Arfandbark are you serious, yes I would like to try it, Let me know where to send shipping money . One question if I wanted to keep it is it for sale ? The people on this forum are unbelievable, more on this later ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 I am serious. I'll need an address to ship to.. Send me an email to Arfandbark@aol.com and title it 930. It's yours after 13 months according to BodCaw's Klipschhornite law #218.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Listening to John Barleycorn by Traffic thru the 930 now. You'll be allright. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfandbark Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 Don't disappear, Dtel. Send me the address. Sooner you do it the sooner you get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted November 27, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2006 Done.....unbelievable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 The interesting thing about these new digital amps is that their distortion decreases as you increase their output - until you reach the saturation point and then it shoots through the roof. As you decrease the output of the amp, the distortion rises steadily into eventually another large peak. It's one of the wierdest things ever - and something I first noticed during a critical listening test of a digital amp I built last year. The guy leading the workshop thought I was nuts until we busted out the distortion plots. I forget the reason for the behavior though, but it was something inherant in the topology according to replies we got from a few amp designers. You basically get a sweet spot at a particular volume. DrWho-- This is not true (assuming I am reading you correctly). There is nothing 'inherent in the topology' of Class D amps which would make the distortion plots act 'weird'. It sounds a bit like you are saying "I built a lousy Class D amp....therefore all Class D amps are lousy". There are poor designs in all types of amps. A well designed Class D amp will have distortion as low (or lower) throughout it power range as a well built linear (Class A/B) amp. In fact, the very low distortion of some Class D amps in the sub-1 watt area should make them particularly good with very efficient speakers ala Klipsch. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 dtel, that is very cool of arf to send the 930. They do sound very good. They are heavy as heck, to. I just shipped one to a forum member and it was 39 lbs with packing materials. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted November 27, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2006 dtel, that is very cool of arf to send the 930. They do sound very good. They are heavy as heck, to. I just shipped one to a forum member and it was 39 lbs with packing materials. Yes Daddy Dee , very cool. I have to say something here, when i first put my question here looking for opinions it was to make sure I was heading in the right direction. But no that was not good enough for the people here, they want to loan me amps and receivers to try ! This is not your average forum and surely not your average people on this forum. Like when we went to Hope and met over 100 forum members and some Klipsch employees. We had never met even one of these people in person and everyone was very nice. You could walk up to anyone and ask a question and they would stop what they doing and help with an answer. We spent the weekend with a group of people we had never seen in person, and can't wait to do it again next year. Thanks for all the offers, everything that was offered to me to try could have been sold, but they offered to loan it to me to try and make nothing, just to help me. Not your average group of people on this forum ! I have seen many people help others here, it is nothing new. So thanks again, and just to say it again, if I can help in some way down the road just let us know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 That is a cool result. Good luck on your listening test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 dtel, Yep. I agree. I've met some of the best people I know on this forum. Never seen anything else remotely approaching the community of this place... on the internet. My take on it... legacy of PWK is for real as he was for real. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted November 27, 2006 Author Moderators Share Posted November 27, 2006 dtel, Yep. I agree. I've met some of the best people I know on this forum. Never seen anything else remotely approaching the community of this place... on the internet. My take on it... legacy of PWK is for real as he was for real. I think you are on to something there Dee ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted November 27, 2006 Share Posted November 27, 2006 The interesting thing about these new digital amps is that their distortion decreases as you increase their output - until you reach the saturation point and then it shoots through the roof. As you decrease the output of the amp, the distortion rises steadily into eventually another large peak. It's one of the wierdest things ever - and something I first noticed during a critical listening test of a digital amp I built last year. The guy leading the workshop thought I was nuts until we busted out the distortion plots. I forget the reason for the behavior though, but it was something inherant in the topology according to replies we got from a few amp designers. You basically get a sweet spot at a particular volume. DrWho-- This is not true (assuming I am reading you correctly). There is nothing 'inherent in the topology' of Class D amps which would make the distortion plots act 'weird'. It sounds a bit like you are saying "I built a lousy Class D amp....therefore all Class D amps are lousy". There are poor designs in all types of amps. A well designed Class D amp will have distortion as low (or lower) throughout it power range as a well built linear (Class A/B) amp. In fact, the very low distortion of some Class D amps in the sub-1 watt area should make them particularly good with very efficient speakers ala Klipsch. Mark I didn't mean to imply that we were looking at the distortion plots for just the amp kits we built...that is what spurred the inquiry to the digital amp designers out there, that told us it was inherant to the topology. I agree, they generally have lower distortion overall in the linear range of their operation, but that doesn't make them perfect either... But instead of talking generalities, it would be much more condusive to name specific amps [] I've been meaning to post many of the plots we recieved, but I'm having trouble locating them at the moment. And then if anyone has issues with the plots, then I'll just have to defer to the engineers that provided them. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 I didn't mean to imply that we were looking at the distortion plots for just the amp kits we built...that is what spurred the inquiry to the digital amp designers out there, that told us it was inherant to the topology. I agree, they generally have lower distortion overall in the linear range of their operation, but that doesn't make them perfect either... But instead of talking generalities, it would be much more condusive to name specific amps [] I've been meaning to post many of the plots we recieved, but I'm having trouble locating them at the moment. And then if anyone has issues with the plots, then I'll just have to defer to the engineers that provided them. [] Sounds good DrWho. Dig up those plots and we can have something concrete to discuss. However, my point remains: there is no 'inherant' distortion issue with Class D amps vs linear amps. No large peak as output is reduced, etc..... That is just bad info. "Perfect"? No....but is any amp? Just no less perfect than a Class A/B amp--and maybe a little bit more so....[] Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 28, 2006 Share Posted November 28, 2006 http://www.michael.mardis.com/sonic/measure/default.html http://www.tripath.com/downloads/an1.pdf http://www.tripath.com/downloads/an6.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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