sredmyer Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Hi all, I am reletively new to Klipsch. I have a 5.1 set up with RF-7s (mains), RC-7 (center), RS-7s (surrounds) and anr RSW-12 (sub). I primarily use the system for two channel (plus sub) audio but do watch an occasional DD movie/HDTV program. I love the sound of these Reference line of speakers and they really slam. I can, although I do not often do it, play to near concert levels (+/- 110 - 115db) with absolute crystal clarity. I read this (and other forums) regularly and often read of folks expousing the virtue of the "classic" Klipsch speakers. Since I have never heard any of them I am curious as to how the sound compares to the Reference set I have. I am not looking for this speaker sounds better than that speaker kind of comparison but rather a comparison of the properties of the sound created by these speakers. For instance although I like my reference speakers some of my friends who listen to them comment that they are a bit "bright" or "harsh". These are the types of sound quality comparisons I would like to hear. What do ya think? Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 Doesn't anyone have any insight on this subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 it's the choice between 2 way, and 3 way designs, basically.... i'd hate to think the change to Reference ...... was price driven, but then there's the cost of a Mid horn, and more involved xover ........[:^)] the difference ..?? lot's more Mid.. "presence" , i guess is the word i'm lookin' for ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 16, 2006 Author Share Posted December 16, 2006 it's the choice between 2 way, and 3 way designs, basically.... i'd hate to think the change to Reference ...... was price driven, but then there's the cost of a Mid horn, and more involved xover ........[:^)] the difference ..?? lot's more Mid.. "presence" , i guess is the word i'm lookin' for ... Forgive my ignorance but are you saying that the Reference series is lacking in the midrange when compared to the other styles? I thought that the RF7's were a three way design. Again forgive my ignorance but there are three drivers in the RF-7 cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 I guess it can be best characterized as the Heritage will slap you in the face w/ the mids...... Reference is more ...polite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 and, perhaps, as you found ... brighter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadog Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Forgive my ignorance but are you saying that the Reference series is lacking in the midrange when compared to the other styles? I thought that the RF7's were a three way design. Again forgive my ignorance but there are three drivers in the RF-7 cabinet. Two of the three drivers in the RF-7 are identical, and there is one crossover point making it a two-way design with the midrange and LF produced with the cones. Heritage is three-way, and the midrange and HF are produced by horns (also the LF is a horn on Lascalas and Khorns). As for the brightness, it could be your amplification. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pierceb Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Duke is bang on with his comments. I have RF-7's, K-horns and Cornwalls and although the 7's sound damn fine, the K-horns and Cornwalls have much more midrange, at least to my ears. I don't personally think heritage speakers sound any brighter (or whatever term you want to use) than the 7's. The heritage do, however, sound much more musical to me. -PB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 It's really not that one has more midrange then the other. The difference in sound is primarily because one is doing the midrange with cones, and the other with a compression driver mated to a horn. Reference has crossover points close to 2kHz, and by that time the midrange in done -- and all of the fundamentals of the notes are being produced by the dual cones. With Heritage, you have a driver/midhorn combination covering four octaves -- pretty much everything that constitutes 'midrange'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duke Spinner Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 exactly, dean .. thank you for a more concise explanation .... don't forget to mention your rf7 mod .... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 Thanx guys I really appriciate this info. Tell me, where do you all go to hear these heritage speakers? I live in louisville, KY and I cant find a dealer anywhere near me. I can hear the mid level reference series (up to the RF-5s) at the big stores (Best Buy, Circuit City). I actually heard these ones I have at Ovaition (which are trying to sell themselves a s boutique). But I can not find any place that carrys the heritage stuff so I do not have the oportuntiy to hear them for myself. BTW I know the RF-7s & RF-5s and that line has been replaced this year with a new line. I have not been out to listen to those and am nopt familiar with the models. I do not know how high up this new line can be found at BB or CC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I live about 30 miles North of Louisville and I don't know any BB or cc that sells reference,of any size,bb sells Synergy.I also had the top line new reference rf83,if you don't like 7's the new ref is less of what the 7's are,if thats what you're looking for.I also have klf 20's(3way)and they are really nice speakers but the 7's run off and leave em' at loud volumes.If you find some used Heritage at a good buy,buy em' try em' and if need be you'll get your money back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 I live about 30 miles North of Louisville and I don't know any BB or cc that sells reference,of any size,bb sells Synergy.I also had the top line new reference rf83,if you don't like 7's the new ref is less of what the 7's are,if thats what you're looking for.I also have klf 20's(3way)and they are really nice speakers but the 7's run off and leave em' at loud volumes.If you find some used Heritage at a good buy,buy em' try em' and if need be you'll get your money back. I am not saying that I do not like my Rf-7s in fact I love them. I just wondered what the heritage lines sounded like and where a guy can go to hear them. As for models carried by BB and CC; When I was shopping for mine, BB had RF3s and RF5s I do not remember exactly what CC had. I had to go to Ovaition to see/hear the RF-7s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Ovation- you in Indy? Come to the Pilgrimage in June- we'll show ya some Heritage! Michael Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 Ovation- you in Indy? No Louisville, KY Come to the Pilgrimage in June- we'll show ya some Heritage! Tell me more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wuzzzer Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 For what its worth, I'll give my observations. I have owned RF-7s for about a year. Originally they were connected to an older Sony dolby pro-logic receiver. I generally had the treble turned down a bit. Thanks to the built-in parametric equalizer I was able to adjust the sound. Unfortunately much of the dynamics of the sound was lost as a result. I then purchased a harman/kardon 2 channel amp that really made the RF-7s open up. The treble was much smoother and I ran both the treble and bass at their flat (12 o'clock) settings. Occasionally some CDs and DVDs sounded less than ideal especially at high volumes. Then a few months ago I had the opportunity to purchase a pair of near mint Forte II speakers for $275. Since there was no way I could pass up the deal, I intended to buy them and resell them on eBay since most Forte speakers go for $400+ on there. I made the 'mistake' of doing an A/B comparison with my RF-7s as soon as I brought the Forte IIs home. The midrange from the Fortes was much more detailed and had much more impact than with the RF-7s. Having the 3 way design and the midrange horn made vocals and midrange instruments take on a life of their own. The difficulty with RF-7s is that since their impedence drops to such low levels (down to 2.8 ohms), it takes a pretty decent amp/receiver to drive them properly. I think that the Heritage and other classic Klipsch products are somewhat more forgiving of the amplification that is driving them. Obviously they still need quality amplification for them to sound their best, but there isn't that same Holy Grail quest for finding the perfect amplification as can happen with RF-7s. See my signature for what I decided to do with my speakers. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sredmyer Posted December 17, 2006 Author Share Posted December 17, 2006 The difficulty with RF-7s is that since their impedence drops to such low levels (down to 2.8 ohms), it takes a pretty decent amp/receiver to drive them properly. I think that the Heritage and other classic Klipsch products are somewhat more forgiving of the amplification that is driving them. Obviously they still need quality amplification for them to sound their best, but there isn't that same Holy Grail quest for finding the perfect amplification as can happen with RF-7s. I know what you mean about the whole amplification thing. I was originaly powering all of my Klipsch speakers from my Harmaon Kardon AVR7300 but my wife (who is a real metal head) wanted more power. I thought that in and of itself was amazing seeing as how the HK delivers 125wpc with 2 channels driven (110wpc with all channels driven). But anyway I set out to find another amp to power the RF-7s since for music (which is what my system is used for primarily) we only listen to the system in 2 channel mode (plus sub). What I ended up with was an Adcom GFA-555 which is 200wpc. When hooking the RF-7s up to this they were a bit brighter (the high end being a bit more pronouced) but other than that not much difference. When the wifey would "get in the mood to jam" she would turn the set up so loud that the clipping indicators on the Adcom would start blinking. And get this...she would say "I wish I had just a bit more volume". So to please the wifey (and because I have no problem having the loudest clearest sounding system in town) I bought another matching Adcom and ran them both bridged as mono-blocks. These babys are capable of putting out 600 watts each in this configuration. Now powered by both Adcoms the RF-7s really came to life. It was literally shocking how much more bass the RF-7s delivered. With the sub out of my system for repair, I still have friends telling me how awesome my sub is. They remark on how hard it slams but...THERE AINT NO SUB just those RF-7s driven with all the power they might want. All of this was a bit of a mystery to me. I thought that since the RF-7s were so efficent (102db/w/m) that meant that they really did not need alot of power. I should also mention that driving them with these bridged Adcoms the sound level in the room is only marginally louder then when i was driving them with just a single Adcom (108db vs 105db). Point is that although the system will go much louder now (I have acheived 115db in experiments) we are not really playing the system much louder, but man what a difference. Now before I get everybody all worried about my hearing, I do not listen at these levels for any length of time. I have played those levels only as experiment to see what the difference between the two hookups was. The wifey however would listen at those levels for an entire evening if I did not step in (I think she is trying to recapture her youth memories of concerts she has been to). As I have said before some of my friends think the the system sounds to bright...I like how it sounds I think it sounds more real. When I hear a system with "tammer" highs I feel that something is missing. I wish I had the opportunity to hear some of the heritage lines though. I hope Mike will tell me more about this pilgramage thing he mentioned in a previous post...it sounds like fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 The Klipsch Pilgrimage:http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/10/ShowForum.aspx (an entire forum dedicated to it) And then a thread sharing the date which you'll probably find interesting:http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/thread/814589.aspx As far as Reference versus Heritage, there really is no comparison, but it's something you gotta hear for yourself. The first time I got my Chorus II's, everybody was out of the house and it was just me, my remote, and a ton of my favorite music. So naturally, I cranked it up a few notches to just engulf myself in sonic bliss. It sounded great, and with every turn of the volume knob it would sound even better. After a while I noticed that my ears were hurting. I pulled out an SPL meter and was extremely shocked when it measured 110dB (A-weighted slow). The sound was so clear I totally didn't notice how loud I let the volume get! And this was with a "puny" Denon 1803 which I think is rated to 75W / channel (the Chorus II is rated at 101dB). You can't achieve this kind of clarity with a 2-way system - despite how awesome the RF-7's are. I know this is a bit extreme, but I think a lot of this dynamic capability ties back into the midrange comments of the other members. It's not that the heritage speakers are louder in the midrange, or anything to do with the frequency response. They simply have much less distortion. Part of this is due to the hornloaded mids versus direct radiator. The other part is that the device reproducing the midrange isn't also reproducing the lower frequencies (so less frequency intermodulation distortion - aka "doppler distortion"). When you have a woofer reproducing 40Hz and 1kHz, the lower frequency is going to change the pitch of the higher frequency the same way a car horn's pitch rises and falls when the car changes from moving towards you to moving away from you. So despite their high sensitivity, the RF-7 is going to benefit from more power behind the woofers because it's going to control the cones better (resulting in less unnecessary excursion - basically a better damped system). The only downside to going heritage is that they're significantly larger than the Reference lineup. It's interesting to note that all of the physics involved with loudspeaker design indicate that "bigger is better", so I don't think its coincidence either... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsp1068 Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 The difficulty with RF-7s is that since their impedence drops to such low levels (down to 2.8 ohms), it takes a pretty decent amp/receiver to drive them properly. I think that the Heritage and other classic Klipsch products are somewhat more forgiving of the amplification that is driving them. Obviously they still need quality amplification for them to sound their best, but there isn't that same Holy Grail quest for finding the perfect amplification as can happen with RF-7s. It was literally shocking how much more bass the RF-7s delivered. With the sub out of my system for repair, I still have friends telling me how awesome my sub is. They remark on how hard it slams but...THERE AINT NO SUB just those RF-7s driven with all the power they might want. As I have said before some of my friends think the the system sounds to bright...I like how it sounds I think it sounds more real. sredmeyer, I experimented with the same a few months back. I had to have a pair of the old classics (Chorus) to compare to my 7's. The bass you mention in the above quote pailed in comparison between the 7's and the Chorus, which surprised me given the single 15. The 7's beat them there hands down. The mids were much more prominent in the Chorus, they really "stood out" if you will. Last but not least, a tubed cd player or pre amp really takes the high end "bite" out of the 7's. I am one of the lucky ones to have found the "holy grail" system match to the 7's, as I love their sound, from the deepest felt lows, to their highest of whispers, they are somethin special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted December 18, 2006 Share Posted December 18, 2006 The Adcom 555 strikes again,this amp is known to be bright on it's own.Matched w/7's I presume it's pretty bright.I't's a good amp but better matched to some very polite speakers.Also Who's remark you can't achieve this kind of clarity w/a two way speaker is nonsense,w/all due respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.