Sign of the times, modern phenomenon, or just trolls?...

[Raider]

I have noticed an interesting phenomenon, not just here, but on many other forums.  Folks will go to a forum to post a problem instead of pursuing the matter through established channels (i.e. 800 telephone numbers, customer service email addresses, dealer or retailer points of warranty service, etc.).  In many cases they will even post on a general forum that has no formal association with the manufacturer or product. Some create a forum account just for this purpose.

I wonder if when their car breaks or needs service, do they first post on a forum about it?  Or if their car fails after the warranty expires, do they go to a forum and bad-mouth the manufacturer?  Now I can understand if someone first takes the issue up with whomever services the warrranty, and/or with the customer service department and gets no response, that they might feel it necessary to seek other help.  It just puzzles me why some folks seem to go to a forum for such things first. 

Instead of calling 911 in an emergency, do they post first?

 

Similarly, how can anyone expect to be taken seriously when they won't go to the trouble to learn, or use, even the most basic communications skills in writing or speaking?  And I guess if you throw in a little profanity, that helps your credibility? 

I just find it interesting that some people show little or no respect or responsibiltiy for themselves, yet can't understand why manufacturers and others won't bend over backwards to accomodate them.    

I have wondered if there is a psychological issue of some kind at play in some of these cases.  Some of course are nothing more than trolls.

Another phenomenon I have noticed is the decline of the ability, or willingness, to debate issues in a constructive manner.  It used to be that two people could engage in a forensic exercise, vehemently debate an issue, then go have a beer and a few laughs.  On forums nowadays, the least little disagreement or difference of opinion foments into a series of vociferous, if not vicious personal attacks.  Related to this is the tendency of some people to take advantage of anonymity and say things or conduct themselves in a way that would likely result in having your clock summarily cleaned were it said face-to-face.  A sort of cyber-cowardice.

I guess that's one of the reasons I enjoy this forum, because it is for the most part free of these modern phenomena.

[WMcD]

The reason is pretty clear. If you pick up a telephone and want to discuss a problem, you get a mindless computer.

Here on Klipsch, Amy or Trey will eventually get back to you. Klipsch is pretty good.

I had a problem with an educational insitution. Illinois Instutute of Technology. They had us all standing in line for 1.5 hours to get an I.D. card so that we have credentials to take the campus bus. Yup, you can't take the bus unless you have an I.D.

I gripped and asked the "kind lady" in charge who she worked for so I could send a complaint. She told me that she didn't work for anyone, no one to talk to. They also got my name wrong and it was a bit of a white racial slur. A stone wall. Then the big guy with a Colt .45 on his hip glarred and held the door open for me. Get lost bozo was the message.

Yes, Nazi stormtrooper stuff over I.D. and bus transport at an eductional instution who otherwise charged kilobuck for a credit hour.

So, you're asking why people don't first "go through channels". Heck, we can't find channels. We can't find mangers who give a darn.

There are some good organizations and managers out there. They are a minority.

But hard to find.

Grrr.

Gil

[Def Leper]

It's probably part human nature and part ignorance. Face it, we all complain and whine at one time or another, and some people have fairly negative natures. I've known people that others tend to avoid because their conversations are centered around complaining about one thing or another. The ignorance part comes in because people don't seem to know how to solve problems, and I'm not talking about young people necessarily. I know plenty of mature folks who can't approach and solve the most basic problems, like how to deal with a defective product or poor service. And in the case of many, they have a strong desire to avoid any kind of conflict, and do not want to deal with the other party out of this fear. Hence, complaining on the internet is safe, non-confrontational, and must be satisfying to someone who feels ineffective and powerless. It's not a new phonomena at all-- pick up a paper and read the "Reader's Voice" or "Voice of the People" page. You'll find plenty of complaining by people who have made no attempt to contact the other party first.

[boom3]

As far as customer service...that is vanishing thing. Manufacturers, starting with the PC makers, discovered there was a huge aftermarket community of users and tweakers out there. So they shifted the majority of customer service to that community and off their books. I use two Corel products heavily (WordPerfect and PhotoPaint). Both are excellent products that are far better than Word or Photoshop. Corel's customer support is you either buy a service plan or use a public forum, or look at a list of FAQs. Corel has alienated an important part of their base by not issuing Mac versions of either software in several years. Some PC industry customer service has been shifted overseas as we all know. Now "Frank" or "Bobby" in Mumbai (Bombay) will answer the phone.

Gill's experience isn't unique... reading between the lines it sounds like reverse racism...I saw a lot of that in D.C., and to an extent, in pre-K New Orleans. Apparently historical racism justifies present-day reverse racism, a sad and self-defeating strategy.

The reason (I think) that people flame on forums, have road rage, and don't even try to get manufacturers to help them is a feeling of powerlessness about real life. So virtual life becomes their real life and they feel free to abuse each other on the Web and the road.

It's amusing to see people rant on forums or blogs. Some people are actually listing their blogs on resumes, silly at best and dangerous at worst. Here's a news flash: The decision makers in this country do not care what the bloggers, chat rooms and forums are saying. The only value these venues have for politicians is to raise funds for particular causes or elections. The decision makers take these funds and forget the opinions that generated them. Witness the cyncism of the current administration for their core supporters in the hinterlands.

I was involved some years ago in a controversy about a well-known printer manufacturer .There were some real, albeit inconsistent problems, which the OEM was slow to acknowledge and resolve. A special forum was hosted about this. Instead of a class-action suit (which might have had merit) the forum folks flamed each other to a crisp, even threatening to to sue each other for their opinions. The forum host shut it down in disgust. The OEM, BTW, did fix the problem, and printer technology advanced in the process.

[PhilMays]

With out a doubt, I will ask a question here first. Usually if I can get through on a phone line I end up with a person who is undertrained to handle my problem.

I consider it a compliment to those many folks on this and other forums that you would respect their opinion over someone elses.

The second part of you original topic is that I feel the internet can be a very dangerious place to communicate. When people are frustrated with a certain comment it is only too easy to "strike back" in the form of email, so to speak. If I am frustrated and send a compaint type email I will try to let it sit over night before I hit the "send" button. I wish I had only done that in all my emails in the past.

[BEC]

"I wonder if when their car breaks or needs service, do they first post on a forum about it?  Or if their car fails after the warranty expires, do they go to a forum and bad-mouth the manufacturer?  Now I can understand if someone first takes the issue up with whomever services the warrranty, and/or with the customer service department and gets no response, that they might feel it necessary to seek other help.  It just puzzles me why some folks seem to go to a forum for such things first."

I think if they are smart, looking to the collective knowledge of a forum might be the first choice.  I couple of years ago, my GMC diesel truck was not running right.  I took it to the local dealer and paid $40.00 for a diagnosis.  The diesel tech said that it needed two parts, a PMD at about $800.00 and a relay at $24.00.  I went to a diesel truck fourm and asked if the diagnosis sounded right.  I got an immediate flood of answers that told me that the relay was the only problem.  One of the guys on the forum gave me detailed instructions on how to do the 10 minute job of replacing the relay.  I went back to the dealership and bought the relay.  Put it in and problem was fixed.  

Bob Crites

[oldenough]

Raider wrote:

Similarly, how can anyone expect to be taken seriously when they won't go to the trouble to learn, or use, even the most basic communications skills in writing or speaking? And I guess if you throw in a little profanity, that helps your credibility?

Raider, I'm right with you on this one, but do not dare bring up this topic on most forums. It seems that the general consensus is that "it does not matter". As far as i'm concerned you will NOT be taken seriously if you cannot spell the most basic English. Generally speaking this is a debate that i stay away from, but as of late the topic has become one of wider interest.

[st. patrick]

Raider wrote:

Similarly, how can anyone expect to be taken seriously when they won't go to the trouble to learn, or use, even the most basic communications skills in writing or speaking? And I guess if you throw in a little profanity, that helps your credibility?

Raider, I'm right with you on this one, but do'nt (don't) dare bring up this topic on most forums. It seems that the general consensus is that "it do'snt (doesn't) matter". As far as i'm concerned you will NOT be taken seriously if you cannot spell the most basic English. Generally speaking this is a debate from which that i stay away from, but, as of late, the topic has become one of wider interest.

Sorry OE, the irony got to me and I just could not resist!

[Duke Spinner]

Aaaaaahhhh ...

I don't waste time getting mad.........

i spend time getting even..

i find it much more satisfying.....[]

[oldenough]

Congratulations St Patrick, you passed the test with flying colors (colours).[:$]

[jheis]

Boom3,

Corel was bought up by MicroCrap a while back and they killed off all the versions for competing operating systems. It's windoze or nothing. So much for welcoming competition.

James

[boom3]

Boom3,

Corel was bought up by MicroCrap a while back and they killed off all the versions for competing operating systems. It's windoze or nothing. So much for welcoming competition.

James

I knew Microsoft had bought an "interest" in them, did not think it was total. But once the camel's nose is in the tent...

[popbumper]

In a throw-away society bent on mass consumption, there is little room nowadays for any real "practical knowledge", so people sweep it under the rug. When I was growing up, my Dad fixed EVERYTHING - and though more likely an offshoot of our low family income, it nonetheless gave him great pride to do work with his own hands. I learned much from this as our family did its own yard work, car repair, lawnmower repair, indoor repairs (painting/plumbing/carpentry), flooring, gardening, food preserves and the like.

Today there is a panacea for EVERYTHING - nobody takes the time to read anymore, television is the babysitter, and the computer has become everyone's crutch. Imagine a world today where everyone would still have to GO to the bank, where finding items would require a network of folks, where jobs could only be found in the newspaper, or information could only be had on three black and white channels. Imagine no microwave, no cell phone, and no MAPSCO. Funny - we all seemed to do without it......

...while today's generation are not only weaned but completely helpless without "instant technology". Most of the guys here I would surmise are folks who grew up in a time when there was still some QUALITY in manufacturing, not like the plasticed mass millions of black boxes churned out in todays Asian factories. Of course, this was when America WAS America - but I'll leave that hot button alone.

One final note - as far as people posting and their attitudes - the internet allows you to be whoever you want. Public forums for the most part draw a substantial amount of participants who are well informed and willing to share - but the venue easily allows for the "societal fringe" to participate at will. Much of what is read and/or shared is COMPLETELY up for interpretation, and emotions/intent tend to translate poorly across electronic media. As a result, "personal filtering" needs to be exercised, because the bait you dangle will not always attract the fish you are looking for. This (the KLIPSCH forum) tends to be somewhat immune to this type of negative behavior, but socially, like the rest of the world, it has its own cliques and sub-societies which become apparent after you have been here for a little while. Is that a good thing? Not really - but you have no choice.

Of course, these statements being my own opinion will probably be quashed by someone's opinion that supercedes my own.....[]. Welcome to the internet.

Chris

[Klipsched with Yamahas]

The internet makes it waaaaay too easy, similar to what I am dealing with at work these days. Everything is automated, and fundamental knowledge is lost due to technology.

I post because (I perceive) my questions are archive questions (which I do a search on first). If I cannot locate the answer I seek, then I seek the professionals. Presumably, the Klipsch forums, who should be the authority on such matters.

Heck, people always ask....what's the best car speaker? People don't want to spend time researching, when they can await a response from someone else. Additionally, the forums serve as a quasi-family atmosphere whereby people converse and exchange information. A tech call somewhere is generally impersonal, and a one-time ordeal.

Lastly, w/o the forum, you get one persons' response, and must take that as gospel or seek another opinion elsewhere. Public forums can introduce a variety of responses, and can be validated by a host of members.

[WMcD]

Okay, I have correct one little point out of fairness.

The racial slur was probably grew out of the fact that my hand written r looks like a k. So I was a Mc Dek.

The young man transcribing this made an honest mistake which was in part my fault. But tempers were high, there was no room for rational discussion. That lack of room was not of my making. I've no doubt that armed men were put there to keep order.

I do have harsh thoughts about IIT and educational instutions. Were else can you spend a good fraction of $1 million and be treated like dirt.

I don't have anything bad to say about overseas phone service. (Save that you know an American is out of work.) Yeah, there are sometimes language problems but the people are sincere and generally know their stuff.

Gil

[colterphoto1]

"Here on Klipsch, Amy or Trey will eventually get back to you. Klipsch is pretty good."

Thanks, we all do what we can...I realize that this thread is pointed primarily at the misguided consumer, but wanted to say a bit....

At Klipsch, I'm here to answer incoming emails in between pretty much nonstop calls. If I don't personally know the answer to a Klipsch customer's question, I route them to warranty, parts, or ask a coworker. Went downstairs today to physically get the answer on a new Heritage question and tracked down a sales rep to take care of an in-warranty piece for a Reference customer who'd moved cross-country.

During my late night ramblings on the Forum, if I see an issue that I feel Klipsch needs to address directly, I'll try to point the Forum member to our Tech Support line (see signature below) or alert the appropriate employee of the thread.

Klipsch just added myself and Rod H in Tech Support. We believe in our products and are serious about taking care of our customer base.

Many times a customer might be better served by contacting Klipsch directly. But the Forum is also here to provide a much needed service. Just yesterday, I answered some system setup and refurbishment questions to the best of my ability, but also routed the caller here because you guys are such a GREAT RESOURCE. There really is a fantastic knowledge base here and I've come to love this community. So please be as gentle as you can with newcomers, share your experience, and forgive their frustrations.

Welcome them to the family as you were welcomed.

Peace,

Michael

[darkside]

I guess that's one of the reasons I enjoy this forum, because it is for the most part free of these modern phenomena.

I

dunno, have you checked the Pro Media 5.1 forum? Every other thread at

least is people thrashing Klipsch because their PMUs died and Klipsch

can't gt back to them quick enough....

I'll try to forgive frustrations at a later date, but until then....

Arrgh. This is what I say to them... I'm sure some of you will recognize this...

[jacksonbart]

.

[WMcD]

Michael,

My line there was a bit of an aside. I did not mean to damn with faint praise. I was engaged in a rant with another focus.

It seems to me that Klipsch did a very good job by hiring a rabid fan whose intellect, art, and appreciation will now be available to benefit customers. And the rabid fan is having a heck of a good time.

Gil

[colterphoto1]

aw shucks [:$]