Coytee Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I realize I can try to find some audio guy here but I thought I'd offer it up on the forum first. During my recent trip to the Detroit Auto show with my Dad, he brought me something. He brought me a cassette tape. So what you might ask... [] This tape is about 38 years old and probably hasn't been listened to for more than 30 years. So what you might ask [] The tape was made by him. It is probably a bunch of nonsensical stuff like "went to the store today & bought a toy" kind of thing. BUT, what makes it interesting, is... it is the tape he made when in 1969, he took myself (then age 9), Chris Wynn (then age 15 and since deceased) to Cape Canaveral and we watched Apollo 11 take off. I don't know if there is 10 minutes of "stuff" on there or 90 minutes. I don't even know if the tape will work. The actual "lift off" was also recorded onto this tape. We were standing quite a ways away with the big crowds and you could just FEEL the earth shake as it lifted off. This is the primary memory still burned in my head. If this recording is worth anything, I'd be real intrigued to hear how it might sound on some Heritage [6] He stumbled onto this tape when cleaning some things out and he immediately realized what it was. He asked me if I could do something with it (copy to cd) and I said bring it to me. Tape is now in my hands. I don't have tape player anymore and thought someone on forum might find it a bit historically interesting to do something like this. What I'm looking for is a simple transfer to a cd (or perhaps 3 cd's...one for me, father and Mr. Wynn who again lost his son a handful years later to a drug overdose) We visited with Mr. Wynn on my trip to Detroit. I'd not seen him in... geez... decades is not the word... I'd say 30 years. He's in his mid 80's and failing health. I told him I'd (somehow) get him a copy of this. This task has now made it to the top of my "to do" list as I really want to get a copy back to Mr. Wynn. I think it would be pretty cool IF his sons voice is on the tape. I'd love for him to hear his son's voice again. Sadly, I have NO idea if his voice is on the tape. I recall very little about it as I was only 9. If we get a volunteer or two... I'll send you the tape, cd's and even a return box (all UPS). All you'd have to do, is the intermediary steps. Thanks and I admit... I'm looking forward to hearing it again myself and more importantly, shipping a copy off to Mr. Wynn. It's become a little mission for me [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 Wow, that's an old tape. Let me warn you that you'll probably only get one maybe two more plays off the cassette - at this age the layers on the tape start to come apart and the magnetic fields are really wearing out. Try to keep the cassette as far away from any magnetic source as you can (you might need to do special mailing for this). A while ago I converted an old tape production studio into a digital studio for CD/DVD mastering. During the transition it was determined that all of the old audio cassette masters should be converted into the digital domain to increase their shelf life. The entire process is going to take about 7 years and involves the conversion of thousands of audio cassettes. I also devised a system for automating noise reduction and restoration of the cassettes that have gone to crap. It's a most painful process. Anyways, I would be willing to sneak your cassette into the Queue Line, but timing would be the biggest issue as I'm on campus at the moment. I'll be going home in the near future to do taxes though, so let me know. It might be a good way to finally get that CD out to you too - I've almost got it finished. Ideally, you really should find a local to do it for you - treat the cassette like it's fragile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 I'm game for you to try it. I can send it overnight next Monday, you'd have it Tuesday??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond45 Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I can copy it onto my computer and make a CD if you'd like. I also have a reel-to-reel tape recorder and a turntable. So I've been doing this for a while! [] Let me know if you're interested and I'll send you my contact info. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 26, 2007 Author Share Posted January 26, 2007 My sister in law & bro in law live in Freddiesburg!! I'll see what the Doc says.. thanks! I know this tape might be frail, might break, might have all the oxidized stuff already rubbed off of it. If this endeavour doesn't work I can live with it. I can't live with not trying though. So, I gotta give the process an honest effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 26, 2007 Moderators Share Posted January 26, 2007 Hope it works out, it would be nice for you to hear what was said between you and your dad back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarheel Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 If Doc can't help I would recommend Jim Ellis at Sonic Perfectionist who has done some really good work for me. Contact him at jim@SonicPerfectionist.com or 206-774-0596. Chuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond45 Posted January 27, 2007 Share Posted January 27, 2007 My sister in law & bro in law live in Freddiesburg!! I'll see what the Doc says.. thanks! I know this tape might be frail, might break, might have all the oxidized stuff already rubbed off of it. If this endeavour doesn't work I can live with it. I can't live with not trying though. So, I gotta give the process an honest effort. Understood. I won't give guarantees if the process will work or not. However, I've dubbed some reel to reel tapes that are over 45 years old and worked well. The oxidation came off on the tape head and the pinch roller, but rubbing alcohol and Q-Tips cleans them up in a few minutes. [] I still need to do a cassette tape that was recorded in 1967 (40 years old!). It has some audio of my older brother as a kid (I was not yet born - I was born 2 years later). Again, contact me off list if you are interested. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 30, 2007 Share Posted January 30, 2007 Whoever does it should record to two sources on the first pass. Don't stop or anything. Cassettes were hardly made to last 4 years much less 40. I'd be happy to do it but it looks lilke you've got help already and my CDR has not been 100% with regard to readability or recorded discs lately. If all else fails, I can send you a tape deck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thank you for considering sending the tape player Scott. I've taken Chuck's comments above to heart and contacted Jim at Sonic Perfectionist. I sent him the tape on Monday and he said it'll be about four weeks until he'll be able to get to it. In my rush to hurry up & wait, I sent it to him via overnight. [:^)] I realize no matter who might do this... the tape might simply be useless so I'm prepared to not have any positive results. Given that, I can be nothing but plesantly surprised with what ever happens. Perhaps until... I hear my squeaky 9 year old voice...[:#] [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I have and still use audio cassette tapes that I made in the 1960s. They work fine and are not quite as fragile as everyone is saying. Occasionally one will jam. Some I can fix, some I can't. I have about 800 of these tapes. Maybe one or two have actually just broken as opposed to getting jammed but it has been just one or two over all these years. Audio tapes produce a higher fidelity sound than records. Maybe not quite as good as CDs but to me very acceptable for the technology involved. After all they have been around for half a century. I'm not ready to give them up just yet. I spend a tremendous amount of time creating them one song at a time. They have special meaning since they are "love tapes" I made for my wife. All romantic music. Each tape has a name. There is a duplicate of each tape so that when I leave for work in the morning my wife and I both start up the same tape. While I am driving I know that Janet and I are listening to the same love tape music at the same time. We coordinate my trip home each day and do the same thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 31, 2007 Author Share Posted January 31, 2007 Roc... I am not afraid to say that I think that is pretty cool!! [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 Thanks Coytee. I appreciate your comment. I guess that I am just an old silly romantic at heart. Wasn't so much romantic when I was younger but I have learned to appreciate the sentiments of romance. My wife seems to like it. She gets love tapes on her birthday, christmas, our anniversary, on Wednesdays or any day. She has been getting them for years and values them greatly. Sometimes they come with cards and flowers. ....hey Valentine's day is coming........what an idea I have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben. Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 I... Audio tapes produce a higher fidelity sound than records.... Ummmm... no. Not cassettes, sorry. Your attachment to them (and reasons why) is laudable, but I'd be interested to see one specification where a high quality cassette will outperform a high quality LP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 You might consider purchasing another cassette player, running it into your sound card, recording it in real time to Sony Sound Forge ($500.00), then burn it to CD. With forge you can equalize (normalize) channel levels, remove glitches, overwrite bad areas, remove noise, boost up the low/high frequencies in real time, and about a million other things. You will not be able to remove wow and flutter. You can change the pitch however. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I... Audio tapes produce a higher fidelity sound than records.... Ummmm... no. Not cassettes, sorry. Your attachment to them (and reasons why) is laudable, but I'd be interested to see one specification where a high quality cassette will outperform a high quality LP. Ben..it is my understanding that records are made with RIAA frequency compression so that the needle doen't have trouble tracking or jumping in and out of the record groove. Audio cassettes do not use frequency compression therefore they can reproduce a greater range of frequencies than records. Greater frequency range translates into higher high fidelity. Is this correct? Help out guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 The RIAA curves are undone at the playback side. For a simple example, say the low end is reduced 20dB....so it sits on the platter at -20dB. Upon playback, you implement the reverse of the RIAA curve and add 20dB to the bottom. In the end you effectively have the original frequency response (-20dB + 20dB = 0dB difference). Audio cassettes do the opposite - you boost the high frequency that goes onto the tape, so that upon playback you can reduce the high frequencies and then reduce the natural tape hiss in the process. The problem with audio cassette is the complete lack of dynamic range (difference between loud and soft) - which is mostly due to the noise floor. Tape head saturation usually sounds pleasant (within reason) which is why a lot of cassettes are recorded with constant clipping. If you bring the levels down out of the clipping and compression region, then the noise floor is way too high. With LP's, you get pretty much the same frequency response as cassettes, but you get a much lower noise floor (with good vinyl). You could probably argue that an average cassette probably sounds better than the average turntable, but the best turntable is going to sound better than the best cassette...LP's generally seem to last longer too. The oldest cassettes I've worked with were from the late 70's. They were kept in very rigid climate controlled conditions and the failures seem to be random. Heck, even tapes only 10 years old that were never played will fall apart sometimes. There is definetly a trend towards more noise the older the tapes get though - which is due to the magnetic flux on the cassette going down. You also get ghosting effects which are the result of the tape inducing magnetic flux on itself (because of the way it's coiled up). You can hear 3 seconds into the future if you listen carefully.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivendell61 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 Re cassette s/n here is a reference point for you: "High quality cassette players typically deliver 50 dB of signal-to-noise at around 600 Hz." Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond45 Posted February 1, 2007 Share Posted February 1, 2007 I recall reading somewhere a LONG time ago that vinyl records have a frequency loss around the 2000 Hz area (in other words, its not linear across the audio frequency band) and when records are recorded they are compensated with an extra boost around the 2000 Hz band. By the way, found some old cassettes from 41 years ago. They played quite well. And yes, I recorded them onto the PC to save them! I wouldn't play those tapes very much at that age. I found tapes that I recorded in the early 1980s, still play as well as they did when they were first done. Suprisingly how well those cheap tapes held up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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