Kain Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Currently, I have no subwoofer in my system and have the following settings on my A/V receiver: 'Large' for RF-7s, 'small' for RC-7, 'small' for RS-7s, and 'none' for LFE. The crossover is set at 80Hz. However, when I get a subwoofer, should I set the RF-7s to 'small' or keep them at 'large' and should I keep the crossover at 80Hz? Secondly, regarding my current settings with no subwoofer, say there is bass below 80Hz for the center channel and/or surround channels, all bass material below 80Hz will be redirected to the RF-7s, correct? But since the RC-7 and RS-7s can handle lower than 80Hz, shouldn't I set the crossover lower than 80Hz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy1587 Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 the RF7's are MORE than capable of handling large settings. You will be fine leaving them the way they are. You could probably even get away with having all your speakers set on Large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 I did try setting all my speakers to 'large' but didn't like it. For example, during the pod race in Episode I, when a pod would travel from the left RF-7 to the right RS-7, it would go from tones of bass when at the RF-7 to no bass when it hit the RS-7. By keeping only the RF-7s on 'large' they get to handle all the bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Setting your speakers to SMALL directs to lower signal to the Sub, but with no sub I'd run them on large. Leave the setting alone for a couple of days and listen, then try the other way..............doesn't cost anything Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 I did try setting all my speakers to 'large' but didn't like it. For example, during the pod race in Episode I, when a pod would travel from the left RF-7 to the right RS-7, it would go from tones of bass when at the RF-7 to no bass when it hit the RS-7. By keeping only the RF-7s on 'large' they get to handle all the bass. I'm not sure I understand this. During this scene with surrounds set to small don't you also get no bass when it hits them? Why would the mains get bass during this one way and not the other, since they are set to large both times? Is it more likely that no bass signal is sent to the surrounds as recorded? My system is set to all large with no sub, I will see what happens with this scene and compare to your response. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raider Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 On my receiver, the LFE sends everything below the selected threshold frequency to the sub (it's a low pass filter) regardless of how the other speakers are set. Setting the speakers to "small" sends everything above the selected threshold frequency to the speaker (it's a high pass filter complementary to the low pass). Setting the speakers to "large" sends all frequencies to the speaker with no filtering. Using the "small" setting can clean up the sound if you have limited power and headroom, or if your speakers don't handle really low frequencies well. I have found by trial and error, that you might want to try different combinations of both settings for mains, center, and surrounds. Due to the placement of the speakers in the room and their interaction with both the subwoofer and the room, you may hear subtle differences in the mid bass and bass response, as you may have either cancellation or reinforcement at certain frequencies. This is a function of wavelength between the speakers, relative to your listening position. I noticed the biggest differences in the mid bass coherence. In some cases you may find that even though a speaker is capable of full range response, the aggregate system response of all the speakers in unison may be better with that speaker set to "small". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 I did try setting all my speakers to 'large' but didn't like it. For example, during the pod race in Episode I, when a pod would travel from the left RF-7 to the right RS-7, it would go from tones of bass when at the RF-7 to no bass when it hit the RS-7. By keeping only the RF-7s on 'large' they get to handle all the bass. I'm not sure I understand this. During this scene with surrounds set to small don't you also get no bass when it hits them? Why would the mains get bass during this one way and not the other, since they are set to large both times? Is it more likely that no bass signal is sent to the surrounds as recorded? My system is set to all large with no sub, I will see what happens with this scene and compare to your response. When the surrounds are set to 'large' the bass is not sent to the main speakers because the A/V receiver assumes the surrounds can handle all of it when in reality they can't. That's why when the bass travels from the RF-7 to the RS-7 when both are set to 'large' you lose out on bass when the sound hits the RS-7. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kain Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 Bump! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 OK, I think I see what you are saying. You really just have to experiment with what sounds best for your crossover question. You probably want it set to where the center and surrounds start to roll off on the low end, or just above that point. The center probably has a different curve than the surrounds, optimize the cut-off point for the center since it is by far the more important component of multi-channel sound compared to surrounds. As for when you get a sub, the same applies---try it different ways, you might like the mains kept on large, or maybe not. I wish I could be of better help, but I am running four Forte II's and an Academy with no sub all set to large, obviously the F II's can handle whatever is thrown to the surrounds by the source. Just my .02 for the day, the usual disclaimers apply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 This is a very interesting topic. Until just a few days ago I had all my speakers set to Large. After all, I reasoned, Khorns, La Scala and Cornwalls are certainly up the task of most sound reproduction. However, in discussions with other HALO owners I decided to try setting them to small so that all freq's below 45 Hz went to my SVS sub. In my case, this seems to have been a good move. Yes, the Khorns are rated to go very low, but in doing comparisions as well as measurements, they do tend to roll off around 45 Hz. So, the sub is doing what it was designed to do, handling the lowest of freqs. while I can get the most of my system with the other speakers. If you are interested in this discussion, you can read it at htguide.com and search for such topics. Much time has been dedicated to this discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I cross over my LaScalas at 90 Hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I don't think there is any "right" answer. Too many parameters. I switch my settings periodically just for variety & sometimes according to source material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
falcon20x Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Well said Arky. However becarefull with what people are saying regarding the settings between large and small.One brand of the receiver's definition for large or small setting for a given speaker position may not be the same for another brand. On my HK, the manual reads: When large is selected for any channel a full range signal will be sent to the speaker outpouts for that channel. For all speakers positions except LEFT/RIGHT when large is chossen, no dervied sound will be send to the sub outpout .... after that there is more talking about the small setting and the X-over The Yamaha manual is a lot easier for the large setting, regarless of the speakers position, gives you full range and for the small setting the X-over is set at 90Hz anything below that is directed to the Bass output. The initial post asked he sets the X-cross over at 80 Hz, the lower frequency will be redirected to the main? I thought the lower frequency would be redirected to the sub outpout not to the main, that's what is says in both manual HK AND YAMAHA, can any one turn the light on for me on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldtimer Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 My take is that since he has no sub, and had set the LFE to "none" that the lows below the crossover cut-off will be sent to the mains set as "large." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tommyboy Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I have a Pioneer receiver. I can set my L/R mains to large, and the sub will still be on. But my sub settings are on/ off/ plus. Plus means that all the LFE info still goes to the sub, and the L/R speakers receiver a full range. I don't know if that answers your ? or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Well said Arky. However becarefull with what people are saying regarding the settings between large and small.One brand of the receiver's definition for large or small setting for a given speaker position may not be the same for another brand. On my HK, the manual reads: When large is selected for any channel a full range signal will be sent to the speaker outpouts for that channel. For all speakers positions except LEFT/RIGHT when large is chossen, no dervied sound will be send to the sub outpout .... after that there is more talking about the small setting and the X-over The Yamaha manual is a lot easier for the large setting, regarless of the speakers position, gives you full range and for the small setting the X-over is set at 90Hz anything below that is directed to the Bass output. The initial post asked he sets the X-cross over at 80 Hz, the lower frequency will be redirected to the main? I thought the lower frequency would be redirected to the sub outpout not to the main, that's what is says in both manual HK AND YAMAHA, can any one turn the light on for me on this? On Yamaha you have a LFE switch that has SUB/MAIN/BOTH, that is for the .1 portion of the mix and it can send it to the subs only, the mains only (if no sub available) or BOTH (which is what I used when I had only a little KSW12 but CW's- I sent the LFE lows to the sub+L+R). I don't know if it directs the LF stripped from any SMALL speakers as well. My guess is that it operates only on the LFE portion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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