SilverSport Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Problem with purchase on audiogoN...help... anyone have any ideas of what I can do???Last August, I purchased a pair of Klipsch speakers from a gentleman in New York (not this Forum...1st mistake)...I paid $120 for the speakers and $60 for shipping AND insurance (second mistake)...the speakers were supposed to have been professionally packaged and sent to me...I was assured they would be properly packed and would make the trip from New York to Chicago in tact......Of course they arrived destroyed...Following protocol, I notified the seller and packed them back to UPS as required by their rules...they got the speakers back and I got nothing but the assurance that Insurance would pay me back for my loss.The seller had been great, ALWAYS emailing me back whenever we dealt with each other...UPS refused to talk to me about ANYTHING once they got the packages back (in fairness, they work for the SELLER who bought the insurance) but did tell me after months that this case was closed (you decide what that means)I tried emailing the seller in December and heard nothing back, I waited 5 weeks (several email and saw him still selling on the 'goN) when I decided to file a complaint with audiogon for their resolution...The seller emailed me as if he knew nothing of the complaint on the very next day after filing with audiogoN...then he seemed pertubed that I complained and offered to give me $100 (oh boy! [] )...when I replied that I paid for insurance and it was SUPPOSED to be insured for $180, I received no response except that audiogoN was considering a resolution......after waiting a month for ANYTHING from audiogoN and receiving nothing...I emailed them...their reply was that they don't do this anymore and I need to contact the seller to see if he will pay me...WONDERFUL...no response from the seller after 4 days...I filed a complaint with PayPal as well but it is WELL outside the filing limit so...ANYONE have ANY ideas what I could try to do to wake this seller up or try to recoup' any of my loss...?Thanks for any help you can provide...TAKEN in Chicago... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 When you paid with paypal, was it using a visa debit card attached to your checking or savings account or an actual visa card? If it was, call the visa number your bank provides and do a charge back. If you did not use a visa debit card or use a charge card, you are at the mercy of the folks you have been delaing with. Going forward, even if you have funds in your paypla account or in a savings account, alwasy try to route purchase thru a credit card or visa debit card so you can do a charge back. The 100 bucks is a common number if the seller did not insure the package as UPS provides 100 bucks of insurance on all packages by default. Email me his audiogon and ebay ID so i can put him on my sh_t B_ird block list. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 PM sent...no email info available Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne taste beer budget Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Sorry to hear of your troubles, though I have no advice on where or how to proceed. I will say, what the hey, do as the cops do in some towns with people arrested for soliciting prostitutes, post his name out in the open and let the world know who he is and how he acts. Maybe after his items for sale have no further interest to buyers he'll get his act straightened out. Besides, you'd be doing a favor to fellow forum members by helping them avoid the hassle and loss you've been subjected to. I hope this works out for you in the best way possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Sorry to hear aboiut yout trouble... But when are folks, at least on the forum, going to start using www.escrow.com and avoid ANY risk for buyer OR seller! No claims, not delays, no hassles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 Bill, I'm sorry to hear this. It is a difficult situation indeed and precious little that can be done. One thought, though, wondering if it is still possible to leave feedback on audiogon. If so, maybe the guy would prefer to settle up with you than to have his feedback dinged. What a dirtbag! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 Thanks everyone...Hey Dee ...I have tried that...several email in to audiogoN with no responses back since they told me they don't mediate disputes (after I filled out what they asked, got a reply and then gave my rebuttal...unless I want to pay $90.00 to begin an inquiry where the solution is all voluntary...since I don't wish to be taken twice...[]...you may just want to beware of buying anything from a Highendnut out there... Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 6, 2007 Author Share Posted March 6, 2007 ...oh, here you go...Amy if this is wrong, please delete it... Silversport's RequestSilversport's Description of the events:Bought pair of Klipsch KM-4 speakers in excellent condition from highendnut prior to August 18, 2006. Speakers arrived severely damaged due to improper packing. I was assured these would be packed professionally and would arrive with no damage. I notified seller highendnut who was very apologetic and I returned speakers following UPS protocols. speakers arrived back to seller and seller assured me I would be reimbursed my money. Seller later notified me that packer and shipper (he said UPS store) would not honor their insurance and he was handling dispute with them. Still later notified me that he had to take them to small claims court but highendnut was still responding to email. December 7, 2006 no response to my email, December 29, 2006 no response to my email, January 11, 2007 no response to my email, January 25, 2007 7 AM CST sent final email asking if I need to file to get an answer...no answer yet.I am out the $125 PLUS the $55 shipping for a total of $180.00 paid VIA PayPal. Up until December, highendnut was always courteous and apologetic but in December he stopped returning my email. Prior he returned my email within hours of it being sent. I see he is still selling items on audiogon.Silversport's Requested resolution:I would like my $180.00 USC back. He should have gotten something from UPS as they have emailed me that this has been closed and since I am the buyer and NOT the seller they cannot give me any details.Highendnut's ResponseHighendnut's Description of the events:I have to say that yes I ship the speakers and that they were excellent and the packing store of ups which is a total different department the UPS shipping pack the items and I have fought with then to pay for the damage cause by there packing which turn to me getting no answer at all Yes there have been many emails between me and the buyer and I have answer all of the emails , so I turn to UPS which they look at the damage and ask how much were the speakers worth I expalin to them that the speakers were in sale value of 500.00 but the want a bill of sale which I couldn't give them cause I didn't have a bill of sale , they inform me that the total for the insurance is 100.00 and that is all that they are going to pay so I have been back and fourth with them and still they are only going to give me a 100.00 so I satnd my ground and hope that with all the calls they would at least give me back the total of shipping plus the cost of the speakers . Now we all who have ship Know that they just run around and in hope that you just give up but I haven't . So to make a long story short the buyer now wants his money back and I be out of a pair of speakers which is not fair and yes I been selling on audiogon and I have built a good report to which i stand behind .So my hands are tie and I don't feel that the buyer after many emails should have file this with audiogon since we been handle this matter between us .Highendnut's Response to proposal:If we could come to a aggreement I'm willing out of my pocket but I'm not going to be out the whole total of the speakers and the shipping we must come to a aggremment upon this matter Silversport's final RebuttalIf the speakers were insured for the full amount ($180.00) I do not know how UPS can settle for only $100.00 when it was the UPS store that packed the item and UPS that sent it as well as UPS that destroyed it. I do not know why I should be out any money nor why highendnut should be out anything. I would like to be made whole. I did not get the item as described through no fault of highendnut (provided it was in fact insured for the full amount as it should have been) I am asking for my $180.00 be returned to me. Highendnut should not have settled for anything less than that from UPS insurance. It has been over 5 months that I have been without my money and highendnut has not been out anything since he has the money he wanted for the sale. I believe that highendnuts refress should be through UPS with whom he insured the item he had sent by them so that he may be made whole as well. No response since January 31, 2007...I have sent several email... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEC Posted March 6, 2007 Share Posted March 6, 2007 I would think that UPS has paid him the $100.00 by now. That is all they are going to pay if that is all the insurance he paid for (the standard $100.00 that is in the basic shipping rate). They are going to pay the lessor of: 1. the repair cost. 2. the replacement cost 3. the amount of insurance you paid for. Your seller would have likely come out better if he claimed $100.00 as repair cost. In that case, UPS would have left the speakers with him and he could have had the good parts out of them to sell. USP will not always allow this. A couple of times I have gotten them to leave the damaged item with me and pay a repair amount. Most of the time though, they just pay the full amount covered and pick the item up even though I am claiming a lesser amount for repair (more on this later). Let me give you an example of how this UPS claim deal works with someone who is selling merchandise that is replacable. Let's say the seller buys items at wholesale for $150.00. He sells that item for $200.00. He insures the item after sale for $200.00. When the shipped item is damaged, the seller can file a claim for his replacement cost that he has to prove by invoice. That is the $150.00 he has to pay for the replacement item. UPS will then also cover the shipping for the replacement item to the buyer. So, both the buyer and seller are made whole but neither profited from the damage. Now in your case with an item that is essentially not replacable, and therefore there is no item for UPS to ship to the buyer, UPS might have paid the full amount with shipping, but the shipper would have had to pay the extra 30 cents or so for the coverage to $200.00 to get that. Remember it is always the lessor, in this case the $100.00 insurance amount. I have a few claims a year with UPS and they always pay very quickly, usually within a week, I have a check from them. I don't understand their thinking some of the time. My last claim was for a $400.00 replacement cost battery charger. The charger had been dropped in shipping and suffered some very minor case denting. I offered to settle with UPS for $100.00 figuring I could discount the charger $100.00 and sell it with the cosmetic damage. They denied that claim and declared it a total loss instead and gave me the full $400.00 replacement cost. I think they felt like there was some way I might make money on that deal if I got to keep the charger. Bob Crites Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Bob, Thanks...that was very helpful...perhaps (and I hate to believe this about people) the putting off was to run out the time for the complaint process...no response now in over a week from the seller (highendnut), audiogoN (3 days) or PayPal (24 hours)...I appreciate the insight into UPS...everytime I contacted them I was put off (but I agree with this as they only protect the seller/buyer of the insurance) it just leaves me out in the cold...had I kept the speakers...everything worked, cabinets were destroyed...I could have sold off the parts... Thanks again people...live and learn, Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Hunt him down....................Nah, you can't do that....Sorry Silver, hurts today, tomorrow you're over it......local pick-up is the only route to go, certain things just can't be shipped.......lesson learned................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Yup...too true...I have FAR more positive examples...especially from here...to think that a couple of years ago I was listening to kg2s and Nakamichi STASIS SS sound...now I have systems in my house...[]...and a whole BUNCH of friends.[Y] Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 IMHO Audiogon has much to lose for not working harder to fairly settle any dispute. The blinders on "cain't hep" attitude would not fair well if their clientelle knew about it. It is not E-bay. There are many high dollar transactions there and they must present a higher level of service to earn the confidence of their members. That's their business and customer service is key to it's success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 ......on an aside... don't deal with illiterate people and don't use UPS to ship anything. None of the shippers are ideal but UPS is the absolute worst of them all by my experience. I usually use Fed-Ex. I ship in a new box. I note that on my shipping receipt with the shipper signature and require the receiver to sign and inspect the new box for shipping damage. At least then I know that from the outside anyway if the shipment was well handled or not. If someone subsequently finds damage they claim occurred in transit then the onus is one them to explain why. Another assurance I've done for high dollar sales is to have the item quality checked by the manufacturer and shipped to the buyer from the manufacturer. That does involve additional cost for me but the buyer can then be certain about the quality of their purchase and I'm relieved of the ultimate shipment safety to the buyer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 oscarsear I've shipped LaScala's and Cornwalls with both Fedex and UPS and have never had a problem with either. Main point is to insist that the shipper follows shipping guide lines posted by the carrier....double box...foam sheets between item and box 1....between box 1 and box 2. But anyway, that's water under the bridge......what can we do to this deadbeat shipper who apparently did not insure the item above the 100 default that was free? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Bill, two generic points. Did you pay for insurance? The $100 settlement is the AUTOMATIC insurance level provided by UPS, and is built in to their standard fee. When you have a seller ship something, have them fill out the shipping manifest with you as the shipper AND receiver, so if there is a claim, you are the only one who has to deal with the carrier. This is allowed by UPS/Fedex/USPS/DHL, and is a very easy way to make sure the buyer is satisfied. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oscarsear Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 oscarsear I've shipped LaScala's and Cornwalls with both Fedex and UPS and have never had a problem with either. Main point is to insist that the shipper follows shipping guide lines posted by the carrier....double box...foam sheets between item and box 1....between box 1 and box 2. But anyway, that's water under the bridge......what can we do to this deadbeat shipper who apparently did not insure the item above the 100 default that was free? I fully agree that the buyer had no control over any part of the transaction leading to the damage, its insurance coverage or settlement. He should suffer no loss. The seller had the control. He relegated that control to the UPS packers and shippers and failed to obtain adequate insurance. The seller determined that he should settle short on the damage claim without consulting with the buyer in advance. The seller should take all the losses and refund everything owed to the buyer. Sadly the seller is an ***. My suggestion would be to split the loss evenly which is the minimum of fairness. Right now the seller holds $280.00. Accept a refund for half and plow his Audiogon rating 6ft under. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 7, 2007 Author Share Posted March 7, 2007 Sheltie Dave, Thanks for that info...I would never have thought of it...I have done some legal checking and it would appear if this is the same guy that he moved to New Jersey...I checked audiogoN after writing before I left for work...a few moments ago and audiogoN shows him to not be a registered user anymore...no courtesey to me... As for shipping, when I bought these, they were to be sent by the Stereo Store he did business with and would be "professionally packed and shipped", I didn't know he was sending UPS until they arrived damaged...Plainfield, NJ anyone???... Speakerfritz...I would GLADLY split the loss...this is what I suggested after I rebutted with audiogoN in an email to Rafael...no response...his phone number is a cell...Where is Jamaica, NY??? Thanks for the kind thoughts and the honesty. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted March 8, 2007 Author Share Posted March 8, 2007 ...still no response and I sent the poison email yesterday...I found out some information through legal means and let him know I know his personal information...I am sure it will do me no good but...thanks for the support...$180 lesson learned. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p.dow Posted March 9, 2007 Share Posted March 9, 2007 only so much damage can occur to a ordinarily well packed item. if the item represented to you arrives to you damaged it may have - 1) been packed poorly 2) been packed poorly and handled poorly 3) been damaged already and packed poorly 4) been damaged/packed/handled poorly. the seller ought to take responsiblity for seeing of packing well. 99.5 % of time i think most folks are up front on trying to ship well. it would be interesting to see shipping carton and damaged contents to try and tell if fraud was intended. the shipper may be slack in makeing things right (maybe). i am sure shippers are aware of ebay con artists trying to make them (shippers ) pay for there (ebay sellers) broken items via a insurance scam. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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