anarchist Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 I am still amazed that so many are willing to state exactly how a non-specified combination of gear will sound. No one has. You are arguing your own straw man. Let me help. I adapted Heyser's spiral to you. The graph shows the hollow frequencies will appear before those of substance. After a bit of modeling, it was determined it could be improved by modifying the cross-over to pass more thinking while limiting the amount of talking. Just in case we can't modify the cross-over, there is still that gig for the infomercial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 A few of you guys are too funny! You endlessly bemoan the state of affairs of the Klipsch Forum, you want peace and harmony and beatitude, but when your supposedly guilty party leaves for a few hours, there's a page of taunting posts goading him to return. Face the facts, gents, you love flame wars, even when you aren't perceptive enough to know when you're on the losing side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Mas, I have read your reference compodium. I have (respectfully) requested you post a couple examples of your measurements involving Heritage with tubes/SS to allow us to see examples of this conversation. If you are not going to post any examples, there is little need to insult everyone else. I come from Missouri, the Show Me state. AS PWK proved, you can wear and flash a [bs] button if you have measurements to support your claims, and others just have...blather. At this point, show us some cheese, or admit you can't. This isn't a Star Trek convention. Thanks for your posts that are fascinating if not, well, pretty useless, especially in the realm of quantum. Not much "cheese" when it comes to real data such as gama ray emissions, transitional energy states and related energies, etc. And certainly not quite enough useful data when compared to such methodologies as are provided by improved experimental capabilities able to say, for example, take advantage of and to provide additional insight into more intense neutron sources. But let's see... So to draw an analogy, if I were to suggest that newer technologies and instruments exist in the nuclear field that are more sensitive to the desired signals that are not overwhelmed by high count rates or by backgrounds from unwanted sources, and that they are able to produce results that may shed additional understanding exist, that if you could not produce them, you could denounce them as fraudulent and groundless. And being from the ShowMe State, it would be hard for you to deny that, after all, "put up or shut up", right? And yet I could suggest that unique ultra-high precision experiments performed with several new Los Alamos instruments such as GEANIE, DANCE, FIGARO, and LSDS offer to fill in significant gaps in the nuclear data...Developments that are reducing uncertainties in the prediction of fission performance. But you would demand that I either produce the results, or the claims would be rendered specious. And thus, those technologies would be discredited. Now folks, I realize many might not be familiar with these technologies, but not someone who "works in quantum"! I only played with applied research in resonance ionization spectrometry myself, so I am not nearly so qualified to comment on the above technologies, but even I, not having spent the past several months dedicating my time to pursue this particular aspect, can express 'some' knowledge of it and the real advance in understanding that it presents. And because I suggest, based upon both reading, and the discussions and presentations made in various seminars that another said technology that is able to be performed by, for example, the TEF and EASERA measurement platforms, offered the potential to offer much more detailed studies that suggest that the gulf between traditional measurements and the subjective experience can be minimized, that unless I have dedicated myself to proving this, rather than focusing on other aspects of interest and use to me, and instantly produce studies of SS and tube amps on Klipsch Heritage speakers, that the technology is specious? That's rich, Homer! Why do I have more faith in having Homer asleep at the switch than with your asinine proposition. I, however, do find the concept of measuring the various combinations very interesting, and it would be interesting to pursue such an experiment over a range of components to see just what results we might discover. When time and commitments allowed. But as I have said, I find other areas of the system more interesting and also that advancements in those areas return a larger ROI. But you might think that it would be of even more interest to those who feel that such an issue is of such vital importance. Where are those measurement dudes now? They aren't out selling stuff are they? But as I haven't spent my time dedicated to doing this, the suggestion MUST be bogus. But as Homer suggests, unless I can immediately produce targeted results to demonstrate conclusively that this concept is valid, the notion of the insight made possible by the expansion of Dennis Gabor's analytic and Dick Heyser's research, and those who have subsequently pushed the envelope is bogus. Just as the notion that unless I can produce documented results regarding the GEANIE, DANCE, FIGARO, and LSDS systems at LANL, they must be bogus as well. Yup, sit on your butt in front of your TV and tell us about how the concepts are bogus. Need another beer Homer? [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 By the way, I am thinking of doing yard work outdoors. What will the weather be like? Sorry, but you have to do your own measurements. You may have to sell off your audio related items to afford the necessary instruments. A small price to pay to ensure you extract the necessary and proper data so you can fully enjoy the weather. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 By the way, I am thinking of doing yard work outdoors. What will the weather be like? Sorry, but you have to do your own measurements. You may have to sell off your audio related items to afford the necessary instruments. A small price to pay to ensure you extract the necessary and proper data so you can fully enjoy the weather. Just sell a few more of your magic caps! After all, it costs only half as much as your new speakers you got from selling your wares here. Especially as acknowledging advancements in audio would suggest that active crossovers with signal delay offer advantages over fancy passive crossovers without signal alignment. But that would severly limit that gravy train! But that's cute, Dean complaining that others aren't doing work for him and others for free! I guess that now Dean is volunteering to redo everyone else's passive crossovers for free. And he will be gratiously refund the cost for those who already paid for them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 [|-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Mas, I don't know all the axes you hope to grind, but it was a reasonable assumption that you could produce something related to Klipsch speakers. If you can't, I don't have a dog in this hunt. I will gladly bow out gracefully, and witness the continuous windmill tilting. And thanks for the reference to Homer - our four year old loves the Simpsons and tell all his friends Daddy works with Homer. I didn't realize you knew that. [^o)] Rock on, Don Quixote! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Distortion: what does it sound like? Those of us who grew up playing the electric guitar may tend to think of it as a fuzzy sound, and with enough it is, but the actual sound of a couple of percent distortion is hard to find. It is just an alteration of the wave form - as if additional tones were added - but this is subtle. The changes to the wave form are more like the difference beween waveforms of different instruments - its not fuzzy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mas Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 The latest in the game of "tag, you're it" The axes I hope to grind? I just push the buttons of those who, just as you and others attempt to push my buttons, instead of attempting to explore new ideas, speculating where reasonable, and postulating valid tests when possible, and instead turn the discussion into a thread featuring 'the dozens'. I have referred to this multiple times. Attacking me doesn't diminish the validity of the concept I suggested as an alternative method for looking at the relationship between various components in an attempt to see what might be gained in a greater measurement/subjective correlation. You make challenges and accusations and I respond. If I do it, you respond. It has become a grand game of 'the dozens'. But, evidently, most have no clue what that is. And ironically, what is humorous is that some think that this is serious on my side, when it is so many others who are truly upset. And so many are making this into some 'personal' thing. And unfortunately, this is just another variant of the cable wars. The irony is that if anyone actually wants to discuss an issue, there are opportunities that do not simply consist of the smart aleck trading of witty barbs. There are PMs, phone calls, etc. that can actually lead to more in depth conversations or sharing of insights as opposed to the cute quips. But if some chose not to, it affords me the same advantage/disadvantage as you perceive that it affords you. I much prefer to talk about other stuff. But if everyone seems to want to play, I can do it as well...Which I am sure will result in another witty comeback about how someone else is much more advanced than I or that they imagine that I think I am so much more advanced simply because I focus on some stuff that others may not be as familiar with. Whatever...the circuitous game continues. As far as measurements are concerned, lots of things are very possible. A great many investigations are possible. But as far as someone tossing quarters on a stage and demanding others dance, you just have to save that for the nudie bars. Serious inquiries and investigations with the requisite planning are always possible. Just like the LANL measurements. Sure they are possible, but they are not necessarily trivial, unless you have no idea what is involved. And there is little point is going through the hassle simply for someone to say "Oh...We were just curious...We really don't care." I am sure others', as well as my time is more valuable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 14, 2007 Share Posted March 14, 2007 Bowed out of this food fight a few days back, but see it is finally headed south so, a couple of observations: 1. The quality of this community has shown forth brightly here. I do not see how some of you guys take it. Kudos! 2. Science still has a demonstrably long way to go to explain sound/audio impact on the human brain, as well as in the world at large. Stradivarious's secrets have yet to yield to anything science has thrown at them. Silbermann is said to have entered a cathedral, banged a staff on the floor a couple of times, then proceeded to design, build, and install a pipe organ no builder could equal today with all the science at their disposal. Concert hall acoustics are a notorius example of where our scientific knowlege fails as or more often than it succeeds. Outside of audio, our august scientists still cannot define, build, capture, or synthesize the most ubiqitous "substance" in the universe: gravity. Don't ask me to be impressed when the sum total of human knowledge can't even explain what prevents us from floating away... In short, see my signature... Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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