How your room impacts how you hear sound

[DrWho]

And yet despite my all to obvious limitations I still managed to assemble a decent sounding system in my room - go figure!

And there's the catch...you come across as one that doesn't really understand acoustics very well, but is stretching to find reasons to justify the sound you so obviously enjoy at home. It's like you'll reject any concept that might even but hint at the possibility that your system can be improved. Of course, the magnitude of improvement claimed by those that have experienced properly treated rooms has gotta be real daunting in light of how enthralled you and your friends already are with your system. So in that regard, let's not be rejecting concepts because we're afraid of the implications. Likewise, any amount of improvement that can be realized by application of new concepts should not in any way change that which you currently enjoy.

And I really wish I could stress that last point more...

[mas]

Quite good. 5 seconds... you are an expert google searcher. []

None of this stuff is a challenge and is rather pedestrian because 4 hours on the net and you have access to just about everything. The whole time domain (the spiral etc.) is also out there and easily discovered and understood. You can learn more about nothing than anyone needs.

Want to know what acoustic treatments are available? Its on the net. Want to know what acoustics solves? Its on the net. Want to determine how to built an acoustically sound room? Its on the net. Want to calculate your room nodes? Its on the net.

Think anyone here has a monopoly on acoustics? Not at all.

Poor Anachronism. I find it amazing that you are evidently enamored with Ethan's website and that you find it oh so complete. Oh, and Winer's 4 goals of acoustical treatment are anything but complete! But he is enamored with "ringing".

You might want to pursue a few more internet searches.

Oh, and as far as your understanding the time domain and "the spiral, etc.", tell us about "the spiral" and the time domain.. What is amazing is that you evidently think that "the spiral" is fundamental to the time domain, whereas there is both a frequency domain spiral and a time domain spiral. Mentioning "the spiral" as if there is some fundamental relationship with the time domain displays your complete lack of understanding as to what "it" is (or more properly, "they are"!). You haven't a clue, but congratulations on finding Don Davis's two or three references to it on ProSoundWeb. You might know more if you had actually had the opportunity to study with Davis and the others who were instrumental in developing this and utilizing it from first principles. But for you, it is easy to know everything about it, as you have looked at 2 short articles. But thanks for further displaying your ignorance.

But you are correct n one respect, the ability to simply search the web is a simple skill that almost anyone can muster, as you so aptly prove - minus the understanding of the material you cite. So now you are an expert based upon your ability to search the web. Congratulations. Now you might want to work on your ability to understand the concepts and to apply them. So please tell us, how do you take the measurements and how do you use them. And of what exactly do you make the measurements? Hmmmmmmmm?

Here's the irony. Anachronism is now an authority based upon his ability to do Google searches. After all, anyone can search Google.

He adds nothing new, but he is great at making noise and denigrating others who might speak of things that he knows little and evidently threaten him. After all, several hours on the web and you know everything that one might need to know about acoustics and room treatment.

So let's have him demonstrate his 'in depth' understanding. Well after he has already demonstrated that he thinks acoustical treatment is intended to adjust the frequency response of the room! After all, he whines, how do you correct for high frequency problems. You might want to do a few more Internet searches. Perhaps you can find out what one of those "experts" say.

Name any of the "acoustics experts", and a verifiable source where they recommend a minimum volume of at least 2500 cubic feet for any room".

Davis doesn't, neither Don nor Carolyn (oh, and Doc, you wondered if Carolyn was qualified in her own right?...she was the first woman session chairman in AES history in 1977.) Berger doesn't; Hilliard doesn't; Beranek doesn't; Patronis doesn't; Keele doesn't; D'Antonio doesn't; Todrank doesn't; Eger doesn't; Gruszka doesn't; Andrews doesn't; Becker doesn't; Anhert doesn't; Kolbe doesn't; Janssen doesn't; Berkow doesn't; Clarke doesn't; Stanley doesn't; Prohs doesn't; Peutz doesn't; Heyser doesn't; Fletcher doesn't; Carey doesn't; Howse doesn't; Durr doesn't; Hidley doesn't.

And with all due respect to Winer, whom I suspect is a very likable fellow and who seems open to new ideas; exactly what is his original contribution to audio and acoustics? And who are these "experts" to which he refers that you find so convincing? As after all, you find fault with everyone who quote others. And what exactly are your original contributions to acoustics, aside from providing a compelling reason to employ absorption and to adjust rooms for their high frequency response!? And let's add that they should be "correct" contributions, as you have already demonstrated a propensity for not knowing what you are talking about with statements already in evidence.

But toss out another straw man that someone "has a monopoly on acoustics". As it is evident that you know less than you seem to think you do from your oh so extensive Google searches.

Thus far you have contributed no original thinking, nor have you even been able to properly interpret what little you have read. You are unable to analyze a room acoustically, and you don't even know the process; but instead you mention that you can simply reference your room's modes on the web. And you think that by quoting a few web searches out of context or by asking nonsensical questions that you intimidate others? No more than a gnat or a mosquito. You just complain and display your limited understanding.

But as you are so smart, why don't you tell us how you go about measuring a room's acoustical qualities. Tell us how you can do that with a mouse and Google. After all, anyone can do it. And then show use how you can verify that what you will claim to be able as far as treatments can be objectively verified. And yes, MUCH can indeed be objectively verified.

And as this is all so simple, explain to us why those much smarter than you, and in environments where sound quality is so important, spend SO MUCH money on having others using the same techniques come in and analyze and treat their rooms. It must be that they are not as intelligent nor as skilled as you. Perhaps they are not as proficient with a mouse and Google. After all, they can find the 2 articles by Don Davis on "the spiral". And? Tell us how that article helps you to apply your understanding of the concept of which you lack both the means and the knowledge to make the measurement.

Yup, you add allot to the discussion, which, at least on this thread remained but a target of your angst and denial. But except for your emotional tirades, that is all you add in any thread. Now, isn't it time for you to challenge me to prove something... LOL!

I never made any claims as to having any sort of monopoly on acoustics. But I can claim to have studied with, and worked with people much smarter in the area than you. And I can assure you that you are in no risk of having any anti-trust commission knocking on your door, at least not with regards to any sort of acoustical knowledge. Now, as is so typical of your form, ask for the 'final' static answers in numerical order, listed from 1-10 in short sentences and using small words that you can understand.

Unfortunately, you add to nothing but the noise floor.

[anarchist]

That's it? That's the best you can muster? You bore me, you really do.

[Allan Songer]

I just read this entire thread.

13 and one half minutes I will never get back.

I should have just turned than Ken McInyre LP over instead, something I'm going to do right now!!

[Spongeworthy]

I just read this entire thread.

13 and one half minutes I will never get back.

I should have just turned than Ken McInyre LP over instead, something I'm going to do right now!!

lol, I feel your pain Allan. You must be nearly as smart as MAS - it took me 16 minutes.

[jbsl]

I read the first 3 pages and just skipped to the end, which is now for me.

[edwinr]

Quite good. 5 seconds... you are an expert google searcher. []

None of this stuff is a challenge and is rather pedestrian because 4 hours on the net and you have access to just about everything. The whole time domain (the spiral etc.) is also out there and easily discovered and understood. You can learn more about nothing than anyone needs.

Want to know what acoustic treatments are available? Its on the net. Want to know what acoustics solves? Its on the net. Want to determine how to built an acoustically sound room? Its on the net. Want to calculate your room nodes? Its on the net.

Think anyone here has a monopoly on acoustics? Not at all.

You can read up on auto mechanics all you want. But then give the man a spanner and tell him to fix a car. Would you drive the car after he'd fixed it?

Give me a break...

[pauln]

If only he would use his powers for good instead of evil...

[wpines]

I have what is universally considered a "bad" room. 13x13 square with a 9'3" ceiling and plaster walls. It didn't sound good and at anything above relatively low volume levels it was unlistenable. I actually got earaches and headaches. I got some treatments on Audiogon for $750. 4 - 16"x48" ASC tube traps (2 stacked in each of the corners of the wall behind the speakers) 2- 24x48 Echobuster panels (on the wall behind the speakers) and one Echobuster 24x60 panel (hung horizontally on the wall behind the listening chair). The difference in the sound in the room is so much better I cannot describe. I cannot recommend a better way to spend $750. Each time I change a piece of equipment, the sound of the "system" changes, but the sound in the "room" is a constant. I just can't say enough about it. Oh and zuzu, you've got a PM. I'm interested in your acoustic gear.

[jacksonbart]

Well so many bright people were wrong, this thread has not been locked.