jdm56 Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Yes, that's right. Mo more for me, thank you very much. I've had it. Done. Finito. I'll admit up front I've never spent big bucks (or even close) on a "name" sub, BUT, the dang things should work! Oops, I forgot: I've already got another cheapo powered sub (Onkyo) on the way, from J&R. It's for my ever so humble bedroom 2-channel set-up (Onkyo CR-315S CD/Receiver, Onkyo speakers[^o)] that came with the receiver, and now, the matching sub). Oh well, maybe it'll be OK...but from now on, NO MORE POWERED SUBS! I think I'll either roll my own, or buy a passive cylinder sub from SVS. Oh yeah, what provoked this rant? I bought two Dayton Titanic 10" subs last year. A couple of months ago one's amp output got real low. I had to take the amp out and send it to Parts Express for repair under warranty. Which, being generous, I'd say they did so satisfactorily. Now the other sub is acting the same as the first one, so I assume it will be the same issue, a bad volume pot. So, here we go again. And previous to this, as some of you forum members may or may not remember, I've posted about my myriad problems with many different powered subs over the past few years. Problems with functionality and problems with reliability mostly. I won't rehash that long, sordid story here (...your welcome), but suffice to say, I've had my fill. Thanks for the vent. I feel much better now![] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedball Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Just not sure I'm a sub guy with my RF-7's, they really do make me happy all by themselves. Oh sure the explosions of movies will never be the same but with music they certainly do the job with a suitable amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I was EXTREMELY lucky to have solved this a long time ago. I'm with you on powered subs....I prefer the electronics be separate. My solution was two of the JBL 4638 low frequency reinforcement cabinets I obtained from the JBL tent sale about 4 years ago. Each cabinet houses two 15" JBL professional theater style woofers - WAYYYYYYY more than necessary to do the job - but that's exactly the way I want 'em. Truly effortless and powerful bass. It seems that there is genuine benefit to spreading the duty of the bass across more drivers....less distortion and clean output at any volume level. These did require some EQ to balance them with the system and room, but the time spent was well worth it. When it comes to subwoofers in a Heritage based system, one must think BIG. The JBLs fill that bill....and the total system price (2 cabs with amp and EQ) cost me less than many "modest" consumer line subs do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Thanks for the heads up on the Dayton line. I recently stopped using my subs as well. But not due to failure, but rather other environmetal tweaks which resulted in changes to the percieved lower end frequency response. Amoung one of my subs is a JBL120SWII which I have owned for about three years. Still sold today by JandR. The list was 600, buy I got mine, and I think they still sell for 300 or less. It has an internal 400 watt amp, and the usual swtich and connection options. I have always been curious about the expensive active subs, and under what senerio, one would be needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sivadselim Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Hmmmm, that's too bad. My RSW15 is the "cat's meow". [H] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 Put a fork in subs...[^o)] Well I have had few problems,be it amp failures and zero concerning setup and integration. I am building more subs,bigger subs...the most capable subs you will see,with no commercial competition. A quality properly setup sub is a must unless you own huge mains capable of a real foundation(depth) for music or movies.And I know even the best floor standers in the 800lbs plus range do not meet my needs in the subsonic departament. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 I thought you didn't like "DIY" [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 DrWHO, Do not like DIY...well I started discovering real Hi-Fi building my mains and sub(dual chamber 3.4cu ft ported housing dual 10" woofers,that was many years ago ...like 16 years ago...). When money came I begin my lazy addiction buying ready to use subs...a funny argument on the AVS forum with a few DIY people and a short flame war...and here I am .[] Here my start...or comeback to DIY... Now who said subs are no good? Subs are a must with today's wide bandwith,not an option.No true high end system is high end without a high end sub capable of massive output @ 16Hz. [] And what I will build I will be closer to the 10Hz range at very considerable SPL. Today I have finalised the drawings and box shape I want to build... my first sub using dual TC-3000 15" drivers,a total of four 4x8' MDF sheets of 3/4" will be used,and little left over! Heavy cabinet thank you.Opposed drivers,.sealed box.Drivers sharing the same volume. 49.5" long,and 24" high x 24" wide. Extensive bracing. Have all the tools now. [] Weight of the empty box...over 120lbs. Drivers 94lbs. Cables and acc. around 1 lbs. ~215lbs total.Amp external... The sub will sit on four heavyduty bolted large rubber feet. The drivers bolted,no cheap supplied hex screws. WBT terminal for connection,10ga cabling inside. The build starts in about 3-4 weeks,as I will have a window of free time of two full days.cabinets will be pained with primer after being sanded.And several layers of black paint will coat the cabinet. ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhenry Posted April 21, 2007 Share Posted April 21, 2007 You get what you pay for. Deep, accurate bass is like horsepower. The more you want, the more you pay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted April 21, 2007 Moderators Share Posted April 21, 2007 I thought you didn't like "DIY" [] That's what I thought, but glad your going to DIY..........Don't get a hernia !. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 Now DIY ...I have too many parts on order...it is worse than before! [:$] Worse in terms of purchase after purchase... Again after some modeling I will have to go with a very large ported 12 cu ft net volume! This box will use two 6" ports, and a shade over a meter long(per port). It is one massive box,180-200lbs for the empty box. Again 94lbs of drivers and we have ...a monster. Tuned to 18Hz and linear,in other words huge output to 18Hz. I am not going for ultimate extension here,just as linear as possible and will use the EQ to reduce rather than increase. At listening position this sub will be capable of over 120dB even at 18Hz! Talk about a monster. Sealed...to much loss down deep compared to the output @ 80Hz,yes I know the headroom and EQ plus the room gain all play a role. But I am aiming at as linear as it gets and efficient... To build a sub capable of output I want in a sealed sub...I will have to use four LMS-5400 18". Usind duals in a ported config, it models well in large tuned boxes. When I order them I will be aiming for a 560L (yes 20cu ft titan) tuned below the pipe organ lower limit,and aim for over 130dB with room gain @ 16Hz,no fooling around. The king of bass,will remain . Lets hope Mike Hurd here gives me a solid opposition. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael hurd Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 "You get what you pay for. Deep, accurate bass is like horsepower. The more you want, the more you pay." Absolutely!!! But then again buying some commercially made units you get considerately less than what you pay for. Ear, I have my 3k in a sealed box of about 3.3 cu ft in my car. Hits pretty low, with little excursion. I have to get my Soundstream back, it is at a repair shop at the moment..... I also have a mold made for 6" flares if you are interested, I can whip them up and ship them to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 22, 2007 Share Posted April 22, 2007 6" flares! Post pics or send me a PM with a pic or two of the flares. I will be using Sonotube(concrete pouring) tubes with 6" internal diameter.As thick walls as possible. I can do a flare with router bits but if your flares have better flaring,I would strongly consider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdm56 Posted April 28, 2007 Author Share Posted April 28, 2007 Thanks for the heads up on the Dayton line. I recently stopped using my subs as well. But not due to failure, but rather other environmetal tweaks which resulted in changes to the percieved lower end frequency response. Amoung one of my subs is a JBL120SWII which I have owned for about three years. Still sold today by JandR. The list was 600, buy I got mine, and I think they still sell for 300 or less. It has an internal 400 watt amp, and the usual swtich and connection options. I have always been curious about the expensive active subs, and under what senerio, one would be needed. Let me add that I'm not really bad-mouthing the Dayton Titanic III series. They really perform well considering the size and price (they can be had for $288 each if you catch a sale). For a 64 lb., 10", 250W sub, that ain't bad! They don't play real loud, but they are clean and smooth and they go down to 30 Hz. Again, not bad at all for the money. They're not much to look at, but then again neither am I. [:'(] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 This section is slower than a snail in a wheelchair! Dayton Titanic III subs are fine,you start getting some output with the 12",as the10" is underpowered...due to the amp selected to fit a price point. I have the Dayton Titanic III 10,12 and 15" woofers on order from PartsExpress. To build my own subs.[] My this year end I should have another 10 subs added! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Is that a manual or powered wheelchair? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I was waiting for the sub lovers to chime in. I was not disappointed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Wheelchair with no wheels and bolted to a giant cement block! All this 99 cent sub talk gives me the [+o(] " I have this 99 cent sub,how do I hook it up to my buck .29 receiver?" [<)] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jocko_nc Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Ditto the other posts regarding onboard amps... I recently removed a pair of Dayton internal sub amplifiers and replaced with an external power amp. I, too had problems maintaining the gain setting, as though the control pot had issues. Think about it, how could internal amplification possibly be a good thing? Heat doesn't dissipate. The components are exposed to brutal shock and vibration. You can't adjust it from the front. How is any of that good? I surmise what happened to the pot is that all the vibration wore a spot or otherwise damaged the wiper interface tot he resistor. I've seen it happen on industrial linear pots. ???. You would think the amps could take it, but at some point all that vibration has got to be a bad thing. jocko Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roc Rinaldi Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Wheelchair with no wheels and bolted to a giant cement block! All this 99 cent sub talk gives me the [+o(] " I have this 99 cent sub,how do I hook it up to my buck .29 receiver?" [<)] Real men only have BOSE subwoofers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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