damonrpayne Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 I've been out of town on business a lot lately and I'm super busy, but I made time to unbox my new toy, set it up, and take it for a tour. When I eventually do my formal review of this, the opening line will be "Some times people accidently get things more right than they should..." for the price, the company it comes from, it's features and performance, this is one sweet preprocessor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 18, 2008 Share Posted January 18, 2008 Integra DTC-9.8 THX Ultra2 7.1 SSP Part I December, 2007 Sandy Bird Specifications: ? Codecs: Everything ? Inputs: XLR as well as RCA ? Outputs: Six HDMI, XLR Audio, RCA Audio ? MFR: 5 Hz - 100kHz +1 dB, - 3 dB ? Dimensions: 7.6" H x 17.1" W x 17.5" D ? Weight: 29.3 Pounds ? MSRP: $1,699 USA Integra Introduction The SSP (Surround Sound Processor) world has been a sad place for the last couple of years. Allthe mass market companies were implementing HDMI on just about everymodel of receiver they had, but all the high-end SSP companieshesitated, because HDMI versions kept changing. Anthem stood out in the crowd as the leader when it came to a respectable HDMI implementation on an SSP with the D2 and AVM50. Most of the other SSPs that did have HDMI were simple switchers and didn't process the audio over the HDMI. Unfortunately, people trying to embrace new video formats like HD DVDand Blu-ray required HDMI audio processing to get the most out of thelossless audio locked in the TrueHD and DTS-MA sound tracks on thosediscs. This year will be different. There are several companies now starting to offer good HDMI implementations on SSPs. Integra (Onkyo's high end brand similar to Toyota'sLexus) has decided to set the stage for this entire market by offeringan exceptional value to consumers at an unheard of price. If you have read the book Blue Ocean Strategies, Integra has set themselves up to compete in a Blue Ocean. Take a look at these features on the 9.8. ◊ Balanced inputs and outputs, something only seen in boutique brands. ◊ Includes top notch video processing (HQV Reon-VX) usually only found in very expensive separate video processors. ◊ Speaker setup a no-brainer with the Audyssey MultEQ XT (includes the mic). ◊ Has four HDMI inputs and two HDMI outputs so you can drive a second display in the room (although not both at the same time). ◊ HDMI 1.3a supporting all of the current Dolby and DTS formats (yes even DTS-MA). ◊ Top of the line 24/192 kHz Burr Brown DACs on all channels. ◊ Measurable performance, not just marketing hype (see our On the Bench section). ◊ Decent looks in a heavy chassis something that means a lot in terms of perceived value for your dollar. ◊ THX Ultra2 Certified (As Brian Florian would explain, this is important, if for nothing other than peace of mind). ◊ RS-232 and Ethernet control for custom installer. The second part of any Blue Ocean strategy is the value price point. At $1,699 (almost $2000 less than the current nearest competitor), Integra has certainly achieved the right position. When you pick up the box for the Integra, you will be impressed with its substantial weight. Comparingit directly to an Anthem D2, the 9.8 build quality is a little on thelight side, but that isn't a fair comparison, as the Anthem sells forover $5,000. The Integra is like most other Japan-manufactured audio components with a solid build, but not overdone. Thereis no massive copper plate bolted to the bottom to add an extra 10pounds, but it does have a nice aluminum front and a toroidal powertransformer. The 9.8 So you can already tell, I am excited about this unit (and have been since I saw it at CEDIA in September). I have been waiting for an SSP at this price point and functionality to hit the market for some time. In terms of usability, the 9.8 has all the right parts. First there are direct source access buttons on the front as well as a menu control. Whilethis might not be important to most remote control users, direct accessto sources and menus are important to many consumers. Thefront of the unit has an audio/video input (including Toslink) whichwould be good for a game console or a standard def camcorder, but Iwish they would have included component video or HDMI on the front touse with high def video cameras or a gaming console made in the lasttwo years. The back of the unit is equally as impressive, with a full row of balanced connectors across the bottom (7.1 out and 2 in). Thetwo balanced rear channel outputs can also be used in a bi-ampingsolution (something I have never been a big fan of, although somepeople claim it sounds better). For analog stereo inputs you have a CD, tape loop, and a phono input (yes vinyl is making a comeback). There are five additional input audio inputs that also support S-Video and composite. There are five digital audio inputs (three coaxial and two Toslink), as well as an optical output. On the video side, there are three component inputs and four HDMI inputs. Video outputs include two component (one for the second zone) and two HDMI (only one HDMI output can be used at a time). The unit also has an Ethernet port and an RS-232 port for integration with control systems, two 12v trigger outputs, and IR inputs and outputs. There is even an antenna jack. The component, HDMI, and digital inputs and be assigned to any of the inputs on the unit. The inputs can also be renamed since AUX1 isn't terribly descriptive. Integra also included XM and Sirius Radio integration. It's a great option to have both providers in one unit, not forcing us not to choose one or the other. The integration looks to be very nice, and while I don't subscribe to either service, my co-workers do. The satellite radio setting and interface are accessible via the on-screen or front panel displays. The DTC-9.8 also has an HD Radio tuner in it if you don't want to pay for services like XM or Sirius. Integra, along with many other A/V vendors, has an iPod dock (as an optional accessory). If you purchase the optional dock, it connects to the TAPE or GAME inputs of the SSP. Ifyou purchase the top of the line DS-A2x iPod dock, the unit passes theiPod interface out as a composite video signal, allowing you to see iton your display. The only feature I could find missing was the Net-Tune function available on some of the older Onkyo and Integra models. Onkyoand Integra are in the process of moving the network-based audio fileplayback (MP3s, etc.) to the Microsoft "PlaysForSure" technology, so wemay see more of this in future units. The remote control for the 9.8 is quite functional and lights up when you hit a button on the side. Ican't imagine anyone paying $1,699 for this unit and not using it witha universal remote of some form, but the remote that comes with it doessupport IR learning and macros. Part II December, 2007 Sandy Bird Function Setup of the DTC-9.8 was as simple as any receiver I have used. The menu system is easy to follow and visually attractive as well. It is nice to see an SSP that has put some work into making the menus look good as well as functional. While the menus have all the same functions as a typically SSP the devil is in the details so to speak. Atsecrets we are always impressed when a processor allows us to setdistance in either feet or meters selectable by the user (if it usesmilliseconds, we typically just send the processor back with a notesaying when you build something in this century send us another one). The next requirement is being able to set the distance in increments of 0.5 ft. Many (even very respectable) processors have one foot as the basic unit. The 9.8 takes it one step further allowing increments of 0.2 ft. Ifyou choose to use the Audyssey setup in the Integra you can pretty muchbypass dealing with setting distances and levels for the speakers. I spent a lot of time trying to find the Audyssey setup in the menu system to discover that it wasn't there. Aquick check of the manual reveals that you simply plug in thecalibration mic and the Audyssey setup menu appears (very niceusability). The Audyssey setup was very accuratein my theater although it did suggest 120/150 Hz crossover points formy side and rear surrounds, and while it is possible, they start toroll off before 80 Hz, so 120 Hz is a bit high. Aquick adjustment in the menu allows you to override this setting aswell as another other basic setting in terms of distance or level. Thesetup also wanted to leave my main floor-standing speakers fullspectrum, which I moved back to 80 Hz. There is a lot of debate about using crossover frequencies lower than 80 Hz for your main channels. THXwould recommend (especially if using their THX certified speakers) 80Hz as an optimal point. I am not going to cover any of that here, butyou can refer to a Colin Miller and Brian Florian essay for morereading http://www.ecoustics.com/secrets/volume_9_3/feature-article-multiple-crossovers-9-2002.html. Thesetup does not allow you to adjust the slopes or frequencies it set upat part of the calibration in terms of room correction. Ifyou want to attempt to perform room corrections yourself, you candisable the Audyssey and configure the graphical EQ manually. TheHDMI menu lets the user choose what resolution they would like theoutput scaled to. The choices are 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. There is also an Auto and a Through mode. The Auto mode will basically negotiate supported resolutions with thedisplay device and convert all input video signals not supported byyour display to use a supported one. In aperfect world that should be what everyone would do, but we haveexperienced some issues using 'Auto' methods in the past with somedisplays and some devices (specifically issues with games consoles andbudgets displays). The Through option allows the source device to control the resolution and bypasses the scaling in the 9.8. Inmy case, about 90% of my content comes off an HTPC which outputs native1080p, so there is no need for the 9.8 to further process the signal. The 9.8 also allows for lip-sync delay to avoid issues of video processing delays where the video lags behind the audio. There is a lack of a 60fps to 24fps conversion when the system is scaling. Ihope Integra will implement this in a future firmware upgrade, but theunit does pass 24fps signals if your device supports it. Integra was also kind enough to send me a firmware upgrade for my unit, showing that they can be upgraded. Theyare not sure if this is a dealer upgrade or a user upgrade, but thatdoesn't matter to me. I am just happy to know it can be upgraded. Thisparticular upgrade added minor adjustments for black/white levels andfurther enhancements and adjustments for picture mode, edgeenhancement, brightness, hue, contrast, saturation, and mosquito,random, and block noise reduction. As mentioned above, every stereo and multi-channel audio format I can think of is supported by this unit. Icould list every audio format the system supports but it is easier torefer to pages 80-82 of the manual which can be downloaded here http://www.integrahometheater.ca/own_manuals.cfm?cat=Separates. Togive you an idea of how complete it is beyond all the Dolby, DTS,lossless stereo and multi-channel PCM formats, the 9.8 also supportsthe DSD format on SACD discs as a digital bitstream from your player. Integrahas added a few (though not as many as other) surround modes (forinstance Orchestra and Unplugged) to enhance your listening experience. While these may be fun from time to time, we don't see too many serious listeners using them on a regular basis. There are a few other features we look for at Secrets when we review an SSP or a receiver. I will cover those quickly below. For additional details see: http://www.ecoustics.com/secrets/volume_10_4/feature-ssp-functionality-11-2003.htm Time Alignment Global AV Delay: Yes Speaker Delay: Yes (0.2 second increments for all speakers) Volume Muting: All, or Adjustable between -50 and -10 dB. Power On-Volume/Max Volume: Last, Off, or adjustable between -81 and +18 dB max and can be applied for each zone separately. Input Level Trim: -12 to +12dB per input. Volume Scale and Speaker Calibration Level: No. Headphone: only for Main Zone and mutes speakers upon connection. Surround Modes: All options in the Benchmark are covered by the Onkyo plus many more. We will be updating this section of the Benchmark in future reviews. Bass Management Crossover Frequency: Adjustable. (40,45,50,55,60,70,80,90,100,110,120,130,150,200 Hz). LFE Trim: Yes (DD, DTS, Dolby TrueHD, DTS-HD, DSD and Multich PCM). Audio Customization Parametric Subwoofer Eq: Audyssey MultEQ XT as well or 15 band graphic. Surround Mode Pre-Set: Yes. Multiple Surround Management: No. Academy Mono Filter: No but has its own mono mode. Downmix: Yes. Setting Storage: Yes plus lock. Comparisons to a $999 Receiver Onkyoand Integra obviously share a lot of technology between their productlines and sell substantially more units than boutique brands of audiogear. This helps keep the prices down and allows them to implement technology on the cutting edge. Sometimesusers question if they are getting any value in buying a higher endpiece from a company like Integra over say a mid-lineup receiver andjust using the receiver as an SSP. This is one time where we can make a direct comparison of the two options. Brian Florian recently reviewed the Onkyo TX-SR805. While these reviews have very little to do with one another (SSP vs. receiver) you can't help but draw a few comparisons. As an example, both have Audyssey room setup, HDMI 1.3a, and support all the latest surround formats. One would hope that for $600 more than the 805, the Integra 9.8 would have superior audio and video circuitry. Brian lives fairly close to me, so we measured both units using the exact same equipment. In all aspects, the 9.8 measured better. Inthe simple frequency response test, while the receiver is down almost0.75 dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, the Integra 9.8 is down only 0.015 dBover the same frequency range. This kind of performance is amazing foran SSP at this price point. THD+N was lower on the 9.8 than the 805 as well. Some of the internal components are better in the 9.8 as well. For example, it uses a toroidal power supply transformer, where the receiver just uses a conventional (though massive) power transformer. Themenu options are different too, as the SR805 only allowed 0.5 ftincrement adjustments for speaker distance, while the 9.8 allows for0.2. So, don't be worried about spending the extra coin on the 9.8. You really are getting more for the money. Part III December, 2007 Sandy Bird So how does all this technology sound in practice? Amazing. I can hardly express how happy I am with the sound of this unit. For those of you who have ever sat though a professional demo in a controlled environment, you know the feeling when the hair on the back of your neck stands up, and you think, "I wish my home setup was this good! " The Integra DTC-9.8 can help get you there. In my case, I have a relatively large room with acoustic treatment and some other very good equipment to complement the Integra. I can safely say that I get that exact same demo experience when watching some of the new movie disc formats in the room. The intro to Cars on Blu-ray made me simply shake my head. I think I have listened to the opening to that movie 30 times in the last couple of weeks. With the silent McQueen prepping himself for the day's race, to the contrasted roar of engines and tires, to the pumped up soundtrack of "Real Gone", it was an experience no one could resist. To take things to a softer note, I went to the Phantom of the Opera HD-DVD. When I was a teenager, I saw the play Phantom when it was visiting Toronto. Listening to the audio from that movie reminds me so much of that wonderful experience which opened my eyes and ears to the wonders of theater, but honestly I think I enjoy it as much watching the HD DVD at home now. On the audio side, I was just as impressed. I store all my music in lossless format on a PC which was connected to the Integra. The image and presentation of the soundstage put forth by the unit were amazing. I tried it with and without the Audyssey EQ, and it did make a difference. It wasn't jaw dropping, but it helped enough to give it a big thumbs up, and my guess is in a room with less acoustical treatment, the difference would be even more pronounced. So what's not to like? I am a reviewer and if I ever found a product I didn't have anything to complain about I would probably stop writing. The Integra is pretty close to perfect, but there is one annoying little thing. When the digital format changes, say from Dolby Digital to Stereo PCM, there is about a 1 second delay before the new signal is locked on. For most people you will never notice this, as your DVD player will be sending DD all the time and your CD Player will send PCM. In this case, one will only ever notice the delay when changing sources, and since you are starting to use a new source you probably won't even notice the second it take to sync. In my case, my media server sends all kinds of different audio formats (16/44.1 PCM, DTS, AC-3, 24/192 kHz, and the list goes on), and everytime it sends something new, there is a one second delay before the audio starts. It isn't serious, but the Anthem D2 locks almost instantaneously. On the Bench The Integra shines. I took the measurements using the balanced inputs and outputs. Measurements were at 2 volts RMS output. THD+N was 0.009% at 2 volts output. Notice the almost complete lack of harmonics. Using 10 kHz and 11 kHz sine waves, there was no observable IMD peak at either the B-A position (1 kHz) or the A+B position (21 kHz). The measured frequency response was 20 Hz - 20 kHz +0, - 0.015 dB. Conclusions Honestly, if you are in the market for a new SSP, and you can't afford to buy an Anthem D2, just go buy this unit. I can't give my recommendation any more strongly. - Sandy Bird - Associated Equipment : Anthem Statement P5 Additional Amplifier: B&K ST2140 DVD-Audio Player: Toshiba HD-A2, Panasonic RP-91 DVD Player/Scaler/Media Store: HTPC Speakers 1: Mirage OM-6, OM-R2 Speakers 2: CANTON ERGO Looks very cool Damon!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobCurran Posted January 20, 2008 Share Posted January 20, 2008 How does it sound for 2-channel audio (music). Thought I read somewhere that INTEGRA processors are NOT intended for good music quality. Rob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzoz01 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 How does it sound for 2-channel audio (music). Thought I read somewhere that INTEGRA processors are NOT intended for good music quality. Rob Not sure where you read that, but I love mine so far. It just replaced my Sunfire Theater Grand IV and I couldn't be happier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzoz01 Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted January 21, 2008 Author Share Posted January 21, 2008 As nearly as I can tell it sounds just as good as my Stage One for 2ch music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 Not sure where you read that, but I love mine so far. It just replaced my Sunfire Theater Grand IV and I couldn't be happier. Ok and Why?? Hookups (HDMI) or what? Other than HDMI Hookups, I am blown away by the Sunfire TG IV. So explain! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 21, 2008 Share Posted January 21, 2008 How did the listening test go too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzoz01 Posted January 22, 2008 Share Posted January 22, 2008 Not sure where you read that, but I love mine so far. It just replaced my Sunfire Theater Grand IV and I couldn't be happier. Ok and Why?? Hookups (HDMI) or what? Other than HDMI Hookups, I am blown away by the Sunfire TG IV. So explain! I loved the TGIV as well, but as I added components it started to show it's age. So far I am very happy with the Integra. The sound is great and the Audyssey processing actually works very well. With the TGIV, I had the same issue with the THX subs that you did, but I went the route of replacing the processor instead of adding an SMS-1. So far the sound for 2 channel seems to be the same as I had with the TGIV, but surround in noticaliby improved. The DTC-9.8 also has a big advantage in connections as well. HDMI in and out, HMDI upconvert, Reon HQV video processor, and a big plus for me is assignable inputs. It also can decode all the new HD audio formats. So far my only complaint is that it looks like a $1k reciever rather than a high end piece of audio gear like the TGIV did, but I can live with that. The remote also leaves something to be desired, but I use a Harmony anyway. I just boxed it up, as I am moving to Fort Wayne in about a week and a half. I think that's about an hour and a half from you, I'd be happy to swing down south with it sometime, mostly because I want to see what the Ultra-IIs do with the SMS-1 vs with the Audyssey. -Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted January 23, 2008 Share Posted January 23, 2008 I just boxed it up, as I am moving to Fort Wayne in about a weekand a half. I think that's about an hour and a half fromyou, I'd be happy to swing down south with it sometime, mostlybecause I want to see what the Ultra-IIs do with the SMS-1 vs with theAudyssey. -Joe Now that would be awesome!!!! your of course welcome.. drop me a PM when you want to hook up!! I live on the NE side of Indy.. so Hwy 69 south... your here.. This is gonna be awesome. Roger aka IndyKlipschFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jzoz01 Posted January 25, 2008 Share Posted January 25, 2008 One other neat thing about this pre-amp is that it lets you assign the surround back channels to bi-amp the front channels. When I had the Sunfire TGIV I ran an RCA to my Cinema Grand amp and out of the front channels to the next to bi-amp. With the Integra, I can bi-amp with XLRs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted February 5, 2008 Share Posted February 5, 2008 I have been following this processor since it came out. Very tempting. I at times consider getting it and replacing my Parasound HALO C2. I keep hoping Parasound will add an HDMI capability upgrade, but nothing yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndyKlipschFan Posted February 8, 2008 Share Posted February 8, 2008 Any updates Damon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
damonrpayne Posted February 8, 2008 Author Share Posted February 8, 2008 I have a huge review pending, but it's a lot of work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Any new impressions on the Integra 9.8? I am still considering going to this unit vs. my Parasound Pre/Pro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optical Standards Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Any new impressions on the Integra 9.8? I am still considering going to this unit vs. my Parasound Pre/Pro. I just ordered the newly released Integra DHC-9.9 the replacement of the DTC-9.8. This will also be a replacment for my Parasound C2 that I have been using since it's release. I will be looking at Parasounds C3 that is scheduled to be released in a few months. OS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optical Standards Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 That thing looks nice. I was looking at the pictures of the C3 in the Club Parasound forum....that thing looks really nice, but it will command about another $1K over the Integra or Onkyo. I am also looking at the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885. My concern over some of these are the reviews which indicate 2CH performance is lacking. I am hoping to get to listen to one somewhere, although speaker on the system will make a difference I'm sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optical Standards Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 That thing looks nice. I was looking at the pictures of the C3 in the Club Parasound forum....that thing looks really nice, but it will command about another $1K over the Integra or Onkyo. I am also looking at the Onkyo Pro PR-SC885. My concern over some of these are the reviews which indicate 2CH performance is lacking. I am hoping to get to listen to one somewhere, although speaker on the system will make a difference I'm sure. Rudy81 I haven't seen to many pictures of the C3. Would you have a link to the Parasound forum? I find the programmable channels in the C2 very useful. I am using one on my tactile transducers and the other on rear subwoofers. I am still planing on using one or two of the programmable channels on the C2 when I install the Intergra. Overall I have been very pleased with Parasounds performance. I have used several of their amplifiers in the past and an AVC-2500 controller. I haven't been to concerned with 2 ch performance since I had been using bipolar speakers. It might change now that I am switching over to a Klipsch system. OS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted September 14, 2008 Share Posted September 14, 2008 Here is the link http://www.htguide.com/forum/showthread.php4?t=31149 I love my HALO gear and it is just fantastic with my Heritage speakers. This is why I am so concerned with 2CH performance as well as HT performance. I imagine the C3 will reatail over $3K and that will make it just too pricey for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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