2Watts- the next level

[AndyKubicki]

Hey all!

Yeah, it's been a while again. I've been poking my nose here now and then. But now I have something worth sharing. One of my friends is doing some rearranging of his house, while getting some new equipment at the same time, so he offered to let me play with it [].

First, he ordered a pair of Emerald Physics http://www.emeraldphysics.com/intro.htm. They were set up here for a week or two, and although the manufacturer says the room plays a minor role, I think they need to be in a different room from mine as they require at least 39 inches from the wall. There is also a lot of dialing in to work with as these puppies require biamping. They came with a Behringer digital crossover, which had a few preset crossover frequencies loaded into memory by EP. I could not really give them a fair evaluation as they deserve to be set up and tweaked more than what we did here. But both, my wife and I found ourselves to be missing the bass of the KHorns. BTW, Todd came over yesterday with a new pair of Don Allen 45 based SET monos, and we listened with the SET on the horns and my Scott 222 D for the bass horns. When we switched from the EP to the KHorns, Todd said, "you know, I have a couple good corners".

We took down the EP and I had to hear the SET with the KHorns. Holy $hit!!! A new level of detail for me. Violins, flutes, vox- all smooth as silk now! My wife walked in from shopping and immediately heard how sweet they sounded! We first had my Arcam going straight into the amps,which means no volume controll. I brought out my Audire Diffet 3 pre and it did give the sound an overall boost as alone, as sweet as it sounded, there wasn't enough volume for my taste. But with the pre, it's not as powerful as the Scott, but I think that I can live with that level The bass is surprising from these little things! Now, items I'm also babysitting for Todd are a PS Power Plant Premier and some power chords I wouldn't even look at in the past. But the SETs were what opened up my ears to the next level. And talk about a quiet amp! I can hear almost NOTHING at idle with my ear up to the horn. The Scott has a bit of a buzz, even when hooked up to the power regenerator.

I listened to a few things with Todd, then more after he left. Everything from the Genesis SACDs, to Celine, to Bela Fleck, to Stravinski, everything I listened to just sounds so new and exciting now!

I will have to do another get together at my place, maybe February. I would now love to compare Craig's VRDs, maybe Mark's Juicy stuff too. I know I wanted to do this in the past, but my dad was living with us and it was much more difficult with him around as I had to watch him. He has Alzheimers and would leave the house and get lost. Now he's in a facility, so we can once again do this. Todd is all for it. BTW, Todd was one of the founders of The Show, the alternate to CES, so some of you might know him. Mark, I think he said he met you...

I'll upload some pics...

[AndyKubicki]

It took a while to figure this posting pics things out, but here they are!

They arrive!

I LOVE the smell of fresh solder!

The setup

Up closer, lightening bolts and all

The view at night

[oldbuckster]

What are those Black speakers out front ?

[AndyKubicki]

Those are Todd's Emerald Physics http://www.emeraldphysics.com/intro.htm , which are now awaiting him in my garage. I missed the KHorn sound too much to leave them in the system.

[leok]

Well implemented SET has a very natural sound. Mine are pretty much standard with the RF-7s. I try other amps and then end up going back to the SETs. Glad you've had an opportunity to hear the technology done well.

Leo

[AlanWinslow]

I have been enjoying the Welborne DRD 45 amps driving Lascala II's. The sound level from 2 watts is amazing. I also have a First Watt F3 clone, which sounds great in it's own way. There is something special about the 45 tube that is truly addictive and just sounds right tonally.

[jcmusic]

I have a 300B amp 9 wpc, but I never use more than the first watt. If the first watt sucks why continue.

Jay

[kev313]

Very nice! I've heard nothing but good things about the Allen amps. A 45 amp in the right environment can be really nice.

Ron Welborne, on the other hand...bad bad man. Nice amps though, can't argue that.

[Cody_Mack]

Oh no, not another SET thread!

OTOH, what is the latest story with Wellborne. Is it still risky doing business here? His amps always get very favorable reviews, but from the buzz lately, it is like rolling the dice ordering anything from them.

I have been thinking about Doc B's new Paramour II that has the 2A3/45 option with a couple of parts changes.

Rick

[Cody_Mack]

While I was typing that last post, I was thinking about kev313 and his experience with Wellborne; dang if he didn't beat me to the punch.

[leok]

Rick,

Just as a point of reference, I changed the output config of my Moondogs to what is now parafeed. Your Paramour 2A3 is already there. I think, in comparison, you might find the standard config which uses one big output transformer for both current source (bias) and audio to be a bit constrained at both frequency extremes. Have you compared? If so I'm curious about your opinion.

Leo

[paully]

The more I listen the more I like my Bottlehead Paramount amps (300B). They really are just beautiful. The problems I was having with bommy bass don't seem to be the amp or the speakers as I changed rooms and the problem has gone down a great deal. It just keeps getting better. I am looking forward to putting in Bob Crites' crossover, hopefully that will make things that much better.

[Cut-Throat]

Another SET devotee here! - I also listen to the 45s (mine are only 1.8 watts) - Currently the Welborne Star Chiefs. What is always amazing to me is how powerful my 45 SET monoblocks sound. I recently completed restoring a Fisher 500B Receiver. And while it has about 30 watts per channel, it always sounds like my 'wimpy' 45 SET amp has more power, clarity and control of my Khorns than the 30 watt per channel Fisher. The Fisher sounds very good, don't get me wrong, but the 45 amp brings the Musicians into the room and controls the music much better.

I'd like to see Ron Welborne get his act together, as I do like his products. When Potential customers start trusting me selling my used Welbornes on Audiogon, more than they trust Welborne, you know you have a problem. (This has actually happened to me)

[AndyKubicki]

Well, I remember all the heated up exchanges here about SET, but had no idea what it was about till I heard it on my own K-Horns in my own room. I have heard a 45 before with Edgarhorn mids and highs, and it sounded great. But I couldn't compare it directly till now. Todd was totally impressed as well. He just sold off a Manley monster room heater which cost even more than what these cost. It's all a matter of your own taste and which compromises you are willing to endure. If I had it all, I would love to have one amp for sweetness and one for rafter rattling. But I must say that with the preamp (and remember how it sounded dead in comparison to Mark's Juicy Peach when we swapped it out), the volume is just about sufficient for me. Almost, hehe.

[Cody_Mack]

Leo - The Bottlehead gear is my first adventure into the "higher end" of audio. I have yet to hear any Wellborne gear. I am still just a little behind on being able to talk technical about these amps. Bottlehead provides an add-on board that provides a constant current source. Is that what you mean? Is that the difference in the two amp designs?

I thorougly enjoy the Paramours driving my Heresys. I use a sub to fill in the bottom. All my gear is still stock, so I am excited about some upgrades. I think about going to a 300B for some more punch, but right now in my small listening room I really don't need it. I read in some circles that the 2A3 reveals a little more sweetness than the 300B, and then the 45 is even better than the 2A3. Everyone's mileage will vary, of course. With my present setup, I would often run out of gas with 1.8 watts. I roll in the S.E.X. amp periodically; it sounds very good for what it is but I am often reaching for the volume control on some recordings. It puts out about two watts.

I also just a few days ago completed a pair of Straight 8s. I got quite a bit of serious listening on them Saturday night; these speakers are amazing! A (slight) problem is they are 16 ohm and all I have on the Paramour is 8 and 4 ohm outputs. I just picked up a loaner Scott 222c and it has a 16 ohm tap. Hooked up the Straight 8s to the 16 ohm tap but the amp had some scratchy noise and the sound level was intermittent. I couldn't judge the sound quality. I moved to the 8 ohm tap and after the amp warmed up it started sounding pretty good. I do think the Paramours easily won the battle of resolutiuon, hands down. I will do some more evaluating this week. Oh, the S.E.X. amp drives the 8s pretty decent. That little amp has very good bass. As it's claim to fame, it is also very quiet, mostly intended as a headphone amp. And those speakers have excellent bass! Unblievable what those 4" cones can do.

Rick

[leok]

Rick,

I think the Paramours use an "ultrapath" output configuration. The ultrapath approach uses an inductor to supply the DC bias current to the output tube and a small, audio only transformer to match output impedance for the audio signals. This way the audio output transformer can be optimized for audio. A more traditional approach its to combine the bias and audio functions into one, rather large output transformer which is hard to optimize for high frequencies because of its magnetic "size" and is intentionally limited in low frequency capability to prevent magnetic saturation from the DC bias current. I believe this is why SETs have a limited audio extension reputation. I've found the parafeed approach to significantly extend both high and low end of a SET design. However, I have had some trouble with resonances, but have most of that taken care of. Long story, but that's as short as I can make it.

Anyway, after all that work fitting my Moondogs with parafeed out I wondered if it may have been a better move for me, in the first place, to purchase a parafeed designed amp like the Bottlehead designs. Most likely they wouldn't have had the resonances I had to purge from my mods.

With your Paramours, have you tried the 4 Ohm speaker taps? That may tighten the bass and provide an overall smoother response (not a trick, just better impedance matching with the speaker's low impedance dips).

I suspect the Bottlehead constant current source is for a gain or driver stage, not output .. but I'll look it up. Parafeed generally uses a big inductor to

supply the output current.

One of these days I'll get to hear one of the Bottlehead amps.

Leo

[paully]

When I was configuring my Paramounts I was advised to go with the 4 ohm tap to match up better with the Chorus II's lowest impedance dip. Seemed like the right thing to do. I haven't liked my S.E.X. amps with the Chorus speakers. Your post caused me to I wonder if the dislike had more to do with the fact I had them set for 8 ohm and less to do with the 2 watts (as volume was plenty loud). Huh...

[seti]

I am also thinking about trying the S.E.X. amps with my Khorns. The increased sensitivity could come in handy. When I had my Canary Audio 300B SET amps I was told to use the 4 ohm tap but honestly couldn't tell that big of a difference. I haven't ventured under 8wpc yet so that will be interesting. If I can actually do the S.E.X kit and it works I'll venture into the foreplay and paramount kit. That is a big but though as I am a newbie to the solder iron. I haven't heard anything in my house sound as good as Canary SET and George Wright Preamp. Honestly I've only heard one piece of tube gear I didn't like.

[Cody_Mack]

I am also thinking about trying the S.E.X. amps with my Khorns. The increased sensitivity could come in handy. When I had my Canary Audio 300B SET amps I was told to use the 4 ohm tap but honestly couldn't tell that big of a difference. I haven't ventured under 8wpc yet so that will be interesting. If I can actually do the S.E.X kit and it works I'll venture into the foreplay and paramount kit. That is a big but though as I am a newbie to the solder iron. I haven't heard anything in my house sound as good as Canary SET and George Wright Preamp. Honestly I've only heard one piece of tube gear I didn't like.

So when you gonna pull the trigger on that order. A disadvantage of Bottlehead is the sometimes long delivery time.

Yesterday I took my amps over to a guy's house who wanted to hear tubes in his system. He has 2-way Altecs with 806/811 and 416s, 16 ohms. The S.E.X. sounded very nice on them. He was pretty impressed. They will sound even better on your Khorns. That amp is a very economical way to get into DIY, and the result is a nice integrated that actually sounds good, especially when matched with hi-efficiency horns.

Rick

[Cody_Mack]

Rick, I think the Paramours use an "ultrapath" output configuration. The ultrapath approach uses an inductor to supply the DC bias current to the output tube and a small, audio only transformer to match output impedance for the audio signals. This way the audio output transformer can be optimized for audio. A more traditional approach its to combine the bias and audio functions into one, rather large output transformer which is hard to optimize for high frequencies because of its magnetic "size" and is intentionally limited in low frequency capability to prevent magnetic saturation from the DC bias current. I believe this is why SETs have a limited audio extension reputation. I've found the parafeed approach to significantly extend both high and low end of a SET design. However, I have had some trouble with resonances, but have most of that taken care of. Long story, but that's as short as I can make it. Anyway, after all that work fitting my Moondogs with parafeed out I wondered if it may have been a better move for me, in the first place, to purchase a parafeed designed amp like the Bottlehead designs. Most likely they wouldn't have had the resonances I had to purge from my mods. With your Paramours, have you tried the 4 Ohm speaker taps? That may tighten the bass and provide an overall smoother response (not a trick, just better impedance matching with the speaker's low impedance dips). I suspect the Bottlehead constant current source is for a gain or driver stage, not output .. but I'll look it up. Parafeed generally uses a big inductor to supply the output current. One of these days I'll get to hear one of the Bottlehead amps. Leo

Yep, the Paramour uses a choke to load the plate; a large one. The choke is physically much larger than the output transformer. I am reaching for the soldering iron to change the output taps and try that. However, as in my post above, I am running in the new Straight 8s presently, which are 16 ohms. I guess I could rig it up temporarily and try the 4 ohm on the Heresys to see if there is any difference.