Mike Lindsey Posted January 19, 2002 Share Posted January 19, 2002 fini, you're too funny! I noticed that too about Mr. Shorn. Although I have to say it's better than another new member's name... Mike Ockhertz. If you put his two names together and say it as one word, you get a pretty funny saying. Kinda reminds you of the Great Porky's Mike Hunt caper... Mike ------------------ My Music Systems Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 ...or maybe Bart Simpson calling Moe's... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 First off, thanks to mobilehomless for the technical link info explaining the physics pertaining to speaker cables. The physics definitely makes sense to me. I think the debate is not about the reality of the physics but merely whether a particular individual can hear the differences in their specific configurations of gear and space etc. I once was doing some electrical wiring on a barn and happen to notice that a couple of feet of wire scrap lying on the ground connected to nothing had measurable current running through it. I was momentarily mystified until I realized that right on the other side of the wood wall of the barn was a line carrying power and that this single loop of unconnected wire lying on the other side was picking up current through the nearby wall due to the very real phenomenon of inductance. Back in my childhood ham radio days I would "tune" the transmittler antenna with a device made out of a loop of wire connected to a flashlight bulb that a buddy would hold near the antenna wire while I was at the transmitter turning the knobs, when the bulb was brightest and he yelled, the antenna was optimumally tuned. Inductance is very real! Compared to audio signals, most uses of electrical energy carried through wire like motors, lights, and other appliances could care less about the deviations that would be otherwise critical. As indicated in the posted article and links, Inductance is also not the only contributing culprit. I found the following link which was of interest, anyone here have experience with this?: http://www.geocities.com/venhaus1/diycatfivecables.html Also does anyone know offhand whether the old Dynakit-70 tube amps are particulary susceptible to the higher capacitance of this cable design, a caution suggested in the article about these cables. I happen to have a big box of Cat 3 AWG 24 lying around and am thinking of doing some serious braiding. I even tracked down one of the special long nose pliers with the built-in skinning hole that I saw the phone man use, perfect for stripping those tiny 24 gauge wires. In the interest of sharing: http://www.mytoolstore.com/klein/71980.html The Cornwalls should be arriving this week and I better start clearing a path in the otherwise cluttered pad. Nothing like a seductive visitor to spur on housecleaning activities. I'll keep you posted. -Clicked and Sprung Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Hey fini, I have heard about your altered LP covers (mostly in France where guys on the street whisper to you and pull you aside). I can't wait until you get a scanner and challenge the freedom of the intenet! -Klystron and Schnokered PS: Nancy and Sluggo say hello. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Hoo Boy! I know what you mean! I'm wetting myself just imagining some guy honking his receiver! Man, how nutty! fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 20, 2002 Author Share Posted January 20, 2002 High Capacitance can have a detrimental affect on poorly designed power amps causing the output stage to perhaps oscillate, especially cheap examples using OP-amps (something to avoid on the whole anyway). Jon goes to LENGTHS discussing this aspect in his site!!!! It seems that some cables opt for the ultra low INDUCTANCE which can come at the cost of a higher capacitance. Wires like GOERTZ fall into this category. Also, some of Jon Risch's designs. However, most amps of quality are not as sensitive to high capacitance unless of an absurd nature. Kimber 8TC is a GREAT all around cable, working vERY well with tube gear and it does have a higher capacitance than some cables but a very low inductance. I dont think your Dyna-70 will have a problem with this. I have used Kimber 8TC and am using the Jon Risch inspired Twisted Cross Connect (not an inspired name) as seen below. This wire works great with my welborne Labs 2A3 Moondogs as well as my EICO HF-81 and ASUSA A-4 EL-34 amp which is the closest parallel to your Dynaco 70. How long will your runs be? I would try to keep the speaker wire as short as possible. I have 8ft runs of this wire and it has done fine. It bettered the CAT5 and Radio Shack 18AWG solid core experiments I was using. It is EXTREMELY open sounding and very detailed. NOTE: Some amps that DO react to high capacitance cables might benefit from a "Zobel network" Do a search in the Cable Asylum for info on this. I believe that most TUBE AMPS are not a sensitive to the capacitance issue. kh Phono Linn LP-12 Vahalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> This message has been edited by mobile homeless on 01-20-2002 at 07:53 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Don't do it, Ripped and Torn, just go to Home Depot and buy some 12 gauge wire. 'It's the BEST!' I better stop. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 20, 2002 Share Posted January 20, 2002 Quote: How long will your runs be? I would try to keep the speaker wire as short as possible. I have 8ft runs of this wire and it has done fine. It bettered the CAT5 and Radio Shack 18AWG solid core experiments I was using. It is EXTREMELY open sounding and very detailed. kh, The runs can be fairly short, about 6 to 7 feet, certainly no more than 8'. btw, is there much individual variation among Cornwall speakers, that is, do most pairs you have heard sound approximately the same. I did hear the pair sold from Berkeley, and I am hoping the pair I am getting from Arizona are as good or better sounding. On another subject: What about speaker switching units that allow one to hook up speakers throughout the house and even play all of them at the same time. I wouldn't be doing this with the tube amp, but rather for everyday use with the big Carver solid state receiver which has a mess of watts. For this more utilitarian purpose I will not be as concerned about special cables since some of the runs are comparatively long. I've got some kind of speakers in just about every room in the house. -Glib and Corn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Quote: Don't do it, Ripped and Torn, just go to Home Depot and buy some 12 gauge wire. 'It's the BEST!' I better stop. THANX! Mike, Are you talking about solid or multi-strand wire? Didn't I hear someone talking about using Romex? -Ripe Tornado Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Gee, I was thinking, if I am going to go to Home Depot, why don't I run 3/4" copper pipes to the speakers. I could get those insulation tubes to put around the pipes and plumb it with with "sweat fitted" elbows and everything. There is also flexible copper tubing....hmmmm the possibilities.... -kippered and salted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Oh man, Pardon my sarcasm! Uh, Kicked and Scorned! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Slipped and Fallen, You have an interesting idea, but is it grounded in science? fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dougdrake2 Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Cajoled and Sweated - I think as long as the copper pipes are made of long-grain, oxygen-free, free-range copper you'll be OK. Just be sure those joints are snug or you'll lose SPLs when you crank up the pressure!! Doug ------------------ My System Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Snipped and Worn, Seriously, I think you're on to something. Being (a) rank (amateur), I don't know about the "technical" aspect of your proposal, but I do try to pay attention, and am learning a lot here at this forum. That said, I'm thinking the flexible 3/4" copper tubing would be easier to braid. Your friend, fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 21, 2002 Share Posted January 21, 2002 Quote: Cajoled and Sweated - I think as long as the copper pipes are made of long-grain, oxygen-free, free-range copper you'll be OK. Just be sure those joints are snug or you'll lose SPLs when you crank up the pressure!! Response: I am trying to get a handle on the concept of "free range copper" and I have tried two different experiments, one, having a local policeman include my listening room on his beat, and two, making my listening room open to the chickens in the yard so they can get more long-grain copper in their diet as well as the added protein of dust mites. Unfortunately the free range-copper got pissed when the free ranging chickens messed up his otherwise nice shoes. It did seem to enhance the Spike Jones vinyl I was listening to both in the highs and the bass. I think fini has the right idea about braiding the 3/4" copper tubing, although I do believe I can braid the 3/4" copper pipe with a pipe bender. -illicit and porn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 The Cornwalls arrived and it took most of the day to unpack them and set them up. At this point they are simply hooked up to the old system I was using which uses an NAD receiver which has served me reliably for many years now. Later today I will connect them to the Dynakit tube amp and also try another larger Carver receiver. The dream is to eventually get some great tube amps and a tube preamp etc. One first impression, and something I also noticed when I aditioned the pair in Berkeley is that my ears tend to like even a bit more in the bass. This may be from years playing music with another PA system that I use with a midi set up, in which the bass really punches out. With this in mind I switched on my old classic Altec 15'" speakers that I was using in my stereo set up previously. The combination of the Corwalls and the Altecs playing simultaneously seem to be perfect. I realize I am not a purist and I may be doing a big no-no here, but it sure sounds fine to my ears. I can try either combination with my switcher so it is easy to compare and demonstrate. I will try this with a variety of music today and also see how it is with the other amps. Having the two 15" speakers on each side seems to balance the predominant higher end of the two horns in the Cornwalls. Also at this point I am using the same speaker wire I had before, so that is another area that may get tweaked later. -Flipped and Reborn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipschguy Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Glued and screwed, For maximum bass reinforcement, try your Cornwalls deep in the corners (also toed-in with the mids looking in your ears). Andy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 26, 2002 Share Posted January 26, 2002 Andy, Thanks for the idea, only thing is, at this point I need a bigger house. I have got to unload some of my stuff. The Cornwalls are more or less in the corners and there really is no room to move them around any way. Because of all the stuff in this carpeted room the sound is pretty dead, which I have heard is a good thing. The sound is great and the Cornwalls are a spectacular improvement, it is just that I had nowhere else to use the Altecs, so the Corwalls are sitting on top of them and the additional sound, if I choose to switch them both on, just seems to add that much more body. Sometimes I practice along with recordings and that is whyI like a big sound, so I am in balance with it if I play along. I am mostly a percussionist and am in the process taking on the vibraphone. {I do have a speed control on the turntable so I can be in tune with the sometimes apparent altered tunings of recordings....I am not sure why this is, but some recordings are off by half or as much as a whole tone so when you go to the piano to find out what key it is you realize that the recording has been somehow altered and my perfectly tuned piano does not align with the recording. Nothing sounds better on the Cornwalls than a tenor sax, so I will dig up those Sonny Rollins records (as per mobile's raves) and some John Coltrane. When fini comes over for my side of our mutual demos I will put on a great old Mercury LP of Prokofiev's Sythian Suite and relive 50s HiFi madness. -hipped and squared Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted January 26, 2002 Author Share Posted January 26, 2002 That is quite a unique setup there. Regardless, it is good to see you have the ole Cornwalls firing, if augmented by everything under the sun. Let me know when you have the Dynaco up. Rollins and Coltrane will surely approve. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted January 27, 2002 Share Posted January 27, 2002 I haven't quite figured out what albums to use to show off my Cornwalls to Clumped and Honed. I'm thinking, maybe, "Organ Favorites" (Tops L1512), "The Story of Big Ed" (Disneyland ST-1619), or "Schnappsie, The only dog in the World with a Magic Button" (Chancellor CSH 7001), or some alterednates. Biggest Regards, fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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