BluRay: Studios Benefit Not Consumers

[mas]

Yup, early adopters always get screwed. People freely chose to be early adopters. People are smart to chose to be early adopters and to be screwed. So what's your gripe? That they are smart and they enjoy it!?

As to reposting the same old bull dookey...well at least we don't have to move into the digital age to summarize your SAME OLD TIRED RANT. We were intimate with that phenomena way back in the good old days of vinyl.

...Be it Neil Young, or record companies, or, heck anyone who markets a product and sells it for a profit, which by your definition is ripping off poor but 'oh so smart' customers - we've read it. Again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.......

Some have figured it out (in fact the majority of the market in this case!) If you don't want the risk, or if you don't see the need...don't buy it. Pretty simple. But it still confuses some who are far too smart to figure it out.

[Guest srobak]

Let's see about early adopters you didn't go BETA or VHS ?, you didn't go to Pro Logic for Home theatre ? never tried LASER DISC's, hey here's a good one, QUAD STEREO, nah, mas was way too smart for that stuff. It has happened again HD-DVD vs. Blu-Ray ........... they hype it, they run sales on it, get you caught up in it, and BAM, oops, we don't make it anymore. So again, explain to me how early adopters don't get cheated,

I don't feel cheated in the least. To be completely honest - ALL technology evolves, obsoleting all previous technology at some point. If you are going to be that hardcore about it - then in reality the computer you typed that very post on has screwed you. The question is - do you think you have been screwed by it? Probably not. You use it, you get the use out of it you feel you need, and at some point years down the road - you will upgrade as the technology becomes obsolete enough where it can no longer serve your purpose.

I still have laserdisc, don't feel cheated a bit. In fact - I doubt anyone does, as it was a market main-stay for over a decade. I also have MiniDisc... still enjoy it to this very day, after getting it in 98.

At some point - everything gets hyped, sold, and discontinued. VHS tapes, DVDs, mainstream LPs, MiniDisc, Flat Screen CRTs, you name it. The trick is to buy something that YOU PERSONALLY will benefit from, and use it as long as you can. That's why I bought HDDVD, and that is why if it sticks around and continues to grow for a while, I will probably get BR when the prices come down. I have an HDTV, and these devices will allow me to enjoy it that much more.

BTW - PS3 market penetration has very little to do with the fact that BR "won". There aren't that many units sold really, and media players alone do not drive the market. The person who posted that is putting the chicken before the horse, and completely forgetting about the egg or the cart.

Some side notes: Betacam SP was a mainstay for pro video & tv markets for many years after Beta fell off the consumer market. Most did not start to budge until D1 and D2 formats came out. Pink Floyd still produces their live shows in Quadrophonic Stereo... and as an added treat - you should take your system out of 2 channel mode when playing both Delicate Sound of Thunder and Pulse from CD... you will be surprised at the little easter-egg you will find.

[oldbuckster]

Explain how early adopters don't get cheated ? You would invest your money in something that within a year or two will be gone, because TOSHIBA decides it can't compete with SONY. ....... Again, as usual the BIGGER business wins, not the consumer !!! ....

[Zen Traveler]

I have a decent budget on what I can spend for Home Theater and in the last year I haven't come close to spending what I have allotted. I discontinued my DirecTV a year and a half ago with the justification I was spending too much time watching the news and I didn't need my Home Theater (or DirecTV) for that....I now watch my news on the Internet and get the News Hour on PBS in 1080i off my antenna. [Y]

I also discontinued my DirecTV because I was buying so many disks...That number has dropped off considerable even though I get most of my DVDs used for $5 to $10 now. I used to have the Bestbuy, 1st week out for a discount syndrome, but got over it a couple of years ago after I discovered I could get more bang-for my buck if I waited a couple of months and purchased used. I have to admit, getting their selection of SuperBit DVDs for $9.99 each was a coup. [H]

Now the dilemma is that I have an embarrassing number of DVDs that I usually only watched once--I call them "Room Treatment" ;-) I also have a considerable number of DVD-As and SACDs that I still enjoy immensely. Even though that technology isn't going anywhere, I am glad I bought in to it and feel the public got cheated for not experiencing it.

Fwiw Buck, Toshiba response to Sony is the American way. I guess Class-Action is also the American way, so there is always that futile avenue. [:S]

I watched this situation unfold over the last few years and I still am not planning on purchasing a BluRay player until/unless I upgrade my TV set and I don't see that happening anytime soon. I also am reconsidering the need to buy a/any disk that I need to play on a seperate player when it comes to movies. I may subscribe to a High Def outlet again, but don't feel the need given all of the channels my antenna picks up over the air. To stay on topic, BluRay hasn't benefited this consumer and I will wait and see how the studios react.

[oldbuckster]

I really don't favor one or the other, I really don't .............. I like standard DVD's they are good enough for me, remember I grew up with black and white television, but I got caught up in the VHS-BETA-SUPER VHS wars,and prologic home theatre, and in the end, spent a bunch, lost my shirt, and I don't want that to happen with this HD vs. BR mini-war to anyone on this forum, it always happens .... I have never told anyone how to spend their money, I try to present the other side of the coin, if you will, but others just see their point of view, and if anyone speaks up they are labled cry-baby, whiner. I too, am entitled to express my opinion on this forum, wheter you agree or not .... Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing .......... EH !!!!!!!

[wally flick]

Of course, format is a studio decision, but it appears from this article that Bay was mad enough about Paramount’s flip-flop to HD-DVD exclusivity that he threatened to back out of Transformers 2.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?article_id=12086

[Guest srobak]

Buck> Yes, it always happens, and it will *continue* to happen, no matter what you buy into or when. Things will evolve, and the previous incarnations will become obsolete. I will be the first to admit that LD is dead n gone. But - I still have it, I still watch material on it regularly... as I said - the trick is to buy into the technologies that *you personally* will gain benefit from - and to hell with whatever the market drivers are doing. If it suits your needs - niche or not - and you can do well on it with a pricepoint that you can stomach... why not get it?

I will say that without having purchased an HD-DVD deck, I would not be getting anywhere close to what the true capabilites are out of my HD display. Yes, I have HD cable, yadda yadda, and sure - it looks great - but HD/BR blows that out of the water, as it should. By purchasing it, I freed up a good quality SD DVD player to go into another room that didn't have one, and it now serves triple-duty as a CD, DVD (upscaler), and HD-DVD deck.

If you don't ever buy into something because it is going to be discontinued or obsoleted in x years or months - then how/why would someone ever buy anything? I mean - these HD displays... I didn't buy into it until just over a year ago - but in 5 to 8 years they will be only a couple hundred bucks for a 42+in display, and the next generation of some crazy resolution like 2160p++ is going to be the latest rage. Will I have therefor been screwed because I bought into HD? I don't believe so. I will technology X for as long as I can gain benefit or enjoyment from it, and have done so at a pricepoint I can swallow, and when it no longer suits my needs, then I will get rid of it and move on to something else.

*shrug* $.02

[anarchist]

Mas, you poor delusional spittle spewing troglodyte (and I mean that in fondest of ways), now I am going to have to spank you.

How many more times are you going to post the same thing ????????

Until he convinces everyone to keep their old SD players and simply stream their HD movies over their unlimited broadband connection directly to their TV's and revise their movie playing habits until it suits the technology.

I know how you feel buck.... it makes you think he must have recently taken a marketing or computer class and feels the need to show he thinks he understands what it all means.

As usual Anachronism crawls out of his hole and contradicts Buck as he tries to support him.

Wrong. I answered his question directly and there is no contradiction just more rhetoric from you.

So to be an early adopter of either was a risk.

And the potential reward from that risk is being screwed as Buck views it and to which I never offered my opinion.

But now Anachronism, you know, the tool who adds nothing of substance to the discussion and who only offers personal attacks, shows up and claims that I am trying to keep anyone from buying either.

Once again, you are projecting. You have been saying the same old tired thing for weeks: "no one is adopting them and HD downloads to IPODS are seizing the market and the future is streaming media, blah, blah, blah."

While Anachronism simultaneously (but just as erroneously) says that I will not be satisfied until everyone is convinced to keep their old SD DVD players.

Read what I said again and learn from your mistakes.

Of course they are both wrong as they debate their opposite points of view in support of each other! So which way is it to OZ, geniuses?

Hmm. We don't have an opposite point of view. We both think you keep saying the same stupid $hit.

The MARKET has decided that it is not embracing HD pre-recorded media with an exorbitant entry cost and high media costs except as a niche market.

Mas BS. The market decided it was going to wait until the format war was over and a winner declared before adopting the new technology. Now, many will wait until other producers provide competing Blu-Ray players.

And of course Anachronism hates that... he can't stand SD or any sources less than 1080p.

Reading isn't your strong suit is it? I only have SD. I download movies, I buy movies and I rent movies from those obsolete Blockbusters stores that went the way of the dinosaur. Now, of course, I am considering going out to pick up HD DVD on the cheap and use the upsampling features in it while enjoying a few HD DVD releases. Oh, wait, that does point out you are completely FoS and just make things up, doesn't it?

After all, Buck still laments the passing of the stereo viewers, as he has a large cache of cards.

Ok, that is funny. You are good for something occasionally.

For you see, Buck eschews change, while Anachronism laments that technology is not changing quickly enough.

Wrong. You are the genius who claims technology makes all things possible. I point out you are delusional and believe all those marketing pamphlets you picked up at CES.

For you see, for Anachronism, the majority NEEDs BluRay, despite the fact that they lack TVs capable of displaying its 1080p picture, and the fact that their $50 upscaling DVD player looks just fine playing movies that they easily purchase for $7.50-$10 - compared to the >$300 player that is not even yet capable of what Sony envisioned as its entry model and the small selection of $20-$30 titles that are available.

I covered this previously and pointed out you were pulling this stuff out of your arse. I personally wanted Toshiba to win. I don't promote Blu-Ray. I don't think you even know the difference in Profile 1, 1.1 or 2 (quick, go look it up) and I am certain most consumers don't really care.

It seems to me...

More meaningless, nonsensical and self-absorbed dribble. Write something original, creative, and well-thought out (and not an argument of your own invention) and perhaps it would be worthwhile to respond. For the most part, communication with you is analogous to listening to a thorazine patient.

[Zen Traveler]

Sometimes it's just too hard to stay away from this Forum. ;-)

[ClaudeJ1]

.......Have to agree with MAS here, though I hope for all our sakes he is wrong. HD technology, while fantastic, definitley has some fundamental problems before it turly penetrates the market. To truly appreciate HD requires an HDTV, which I can tell you right now is still not in most peoples homes, no matter what statistics are thrown out. The CD penetrated the market because it was a QUANTUM LEAP above cassettes and records, similar to how DVD was a quantum leap above VHS. Now, though Blu Ray and HD-DVD are a siginificant leap above SD TV, I think that leap is more like the leap of SACD to CDs (which again required five speakers to truly appreciate, hopefully they matched). Certianly an improvement, but not one to justify jumping into a new technology.

With the botched up mixing jobs by most sound engineers who behave like the old "singer on the flying trapeze" days of the failed quadraphonic systems of the 70's, I still prefer to listen to DVD concerts in 2.1 stereo. With a very few exceptions, it sound better. Very few use the rear channels strictly for the ambience and applause, most put cymbals and other instruments behind your head, which is totally unrealistic.

Also, very few people take advantage of the extra dynamics and resolution of the DVD audio format, the world has gone for convenience over quality once again. Excuse me while I take my iBreakfast from my iStove and iToaster with my iCoffee maker.

Compressed signal dynamics and compressed bit rates for compressed brains.

[Catharsis147]

LOL.

I still think that HD streaming of video is simply waaay too far away for that medium to supplant the physical HD formats. As mentioned by ClaudeJ, people go for convenience over quality, and to transmit the amount of information needed to equate to a Blu Ray disc would take forever on our current networks, thus limiting the conveneince factor tremendously for HD streaming. I could be wrong on this theory, but I doubt it highly. Blu Ray looks to be the next staple of physical media until HD streaming of video (or something else) takes over. Unless, of course, this format war and lack of consumer interest already committed Blu Ray to that of minidisc (which I loved actually) or laserdisc.

[wally flick]

I still think that HD streaming of video is simply waaay too far away for that medium to supplant the physical HD formats.

I agree. It takes me the better part of an hour to download, through a wireless connection, a couple minute 1080p trailer with just stereo sound to my PS3. Can you see it, "Honey, if we want to watch the extendend version of Lord of the Rings with the lossless 7.1 soundtrack next week, we need to start downloading".

Give me Blu!

[Guest srobak]

1080i with 2 channel audio requires almost an 8 megabit stream... Until DSL is abolished from it's widespread general consumer state (currently far exceeding fiber or cable of any speed) we are not in a position to remotely consider HD streaming as a meaningful and viable alternative. Even in Japan, where most homes are averaging 25+ megabit - HD streaming is barely making a dent in the market.

Yes - the day is coming - but we do have a very long way to go.

[Buckeye_Nut]

I don't care about the streaming pipe dreams that many techies see in our distant future. For now....I'm looking forward to buying the "Cloverfield" blu-ray in the very near future[H]

Anyone who seriesly thinks we'll be quickly/conveniently be downloading FULL BANDWIDTH HD-movies anytime soon in the comfort of our homes..........needs to put down crack pipe.

50gigs is an awful big file to download to watch a single movie.

[Arky]

50gigs is an awful big file to download to watch a single movie.

Wow, is that how big it would be. I've only got 30 gigs free.

[wally flick]

50gigs is an awful big file to download to watch a single movie.

Wow, is that how big it would be. I've only got 30 gigs free.

50GB is the current capacity of dual layer BR discs. I remember reading speculation that video and or audio were being compressed more (vs Blu-ray) in order to fit on the lower capacity HD-DVDs where the capacity is 25GB. And by more, I mean noticeably more. So while a full HD movie with multi-channel surround isn’t 50GB, it’s still a BIG, BIG download.

And yes, bring on Cloverfield!!!

[Macho Nacho]

HD DVD is right up there with laserdisks and Beta. I had a Beta in my fish bowl back in the 80's.

[Arky]

Thanks Wally.

[Zen Traveler]

Now the dilemma is that I have an embarrassing number of DVDs that I usually only watched once--I call them "Room Treatment" ;-) I also have a considerable number of DVD-As and SACDs that I still enjoy immensely. Even though that technology isn't going anywhere, I am glad I bought in to it and feel the public got cheated for not experiencing it.

...I watched this situation unfold over the last few years and I still am not planning on purchasing a BluRay player until/unless I upgrade my TV set and I don't see that happening anytime soon. I also am reconsidering the need to buy a/any disk that I need to play on a seperate player when it comes to movies...

Imo, what I have underlined is going to be the reason BluRay won't have the market that DVDs have now. I am basing this assumption that the new generation of DVRs can capture what service providers and Terrestrial TV can deliver in High Definition.

Of course if content providers and Sony get together (as well as let some other people in on the action to avoid monopoly issues) to make BluRay the new standard I will be among the BluRay Revolution. :-)

[White_Hawk]

I plan on getting a HDTV this summer, so I'll probably get a blu player with upconverting.

Vive le revolution! =)