Hearing and noise tolerance

[Clipped and Shorn]

Last night I was encouraged by a friend who was in this band to go out and support some local music. I paid the cover at the door of this upscale restaurant and told them up front, if I couldn't stand the sound which was more than likely, I would be leaving shortly and would want a refund. While the band was setting up, the soundman/DJ was playing music from CDs. The combination of this overly loud music, the crowd noise, and the bad acoustics in the room was already painful. Trying to converse with people was extremely frustrating since I could barely hear myself talking let alone the other person. Since this was hot Latin jazz most people came to dance salsa. When the band itself started, (three trumpets, piano, bass, four percussion, singers) I could tell rather quickly I was not going to make it. It was like being in a cavern with intolerable noise with something like music somewhere in back of the mix of painful sound overload. I left, got the refund, and then stood outside for a few minutes behind a large glass window where I could see the musicians and hear the music filtered through the walls. I watched for a tune or so and greeted the musicians I knew through the window, it was like being on the bandstand but behind glass.

When I spoke with other attendees coming and going and asked what they thought of the sound, mostly they had nothing negative to say about it. Many dancers know to come prepared with earplugs! My own hearing seems as good as ever but I have become very sensitive to tolerating such a high level of noise and audio cacphony. Most people who seem to be able to tolerate this painful noise have younger ears. What is it about younger ears that are able and willing to tolerate loud unpleasant noise and think it is a musical experience of some kind? Why are they so undiscriminating? Is this all somehow explainable by the physiology of the mating game? What is the hormonal chemistry here that does this. Has this been studied? I don't think I ever could tolerate this actually.

Meanwhile, I found myself creating an "invention". Take a set of ear protectors, the ones that look like headphones that you wear while running dangerously noisy equipment, the ones that subtract 90%+ of the sound. Install electronics. Or simply get a pair of those earphones that block outside distractions, then get a small portable mini amp and microphone. You will look goofy, but you might be able to tolerate the audio with more than 90% removed, and then you offer the microphone to people you might want to talk to in the club. Hopefully they can hear you, or maybe they also would wear a pair of these contraptions and you would speak into their microphone as well. Is someone already making these? Easy enough.

Or one can just leave the situation, as I did......

I am wondering to what extent one's evaluation of a home audio system might also be subject to similar physiological factors. Do aging ears always prefer less volume and have less tolerance for "noise" or perceived "imperfections". What age group are the most discriminating audiophiles? Maybe there is no connection, I don't know.

By the way, not long ago I went to the Santa Rosa Symphony and had a fantastic experience. All acoustic and phenomenal! It was a revelation.

PS. why bands don't just go back to acoustic performance is another topic.

-? ? ? (©fini)

[mark1101]

There are some forum members who have posted concerning some very high tech hearing aid devices that they got into. You should do a search. I was very impressed with what I read and in the technology they discussed. They were actually getting good fidelity through these devices, noise reduction, and level adjustment, and reporting dramatic results. I believe I remember also seeing prices in the $5000 range. I could be wrong. But their descriptions of the performance was remarkable. Hey you can't put a price on your hearing, right? I would do a search and investigate. You might find a ready solution.

[fini]

You's gots ta pick the right bands...jus like da good ol' days...

[Clipped and Shorn]

Last night I simply forgot to bring a pair of those ear protectors which I had vowed to do the last time I went to a club and it was a disaster. I have several here on the ranch. They come in different levels of sound suppression. You get them at the professional safety supply outlet. They come in different colors to indicate the level of sound suppression . I have some for use on the tractor, another set for the cord saw which is really really loud and painful, another for the chainsaw. Mostly I wanted to show up at the music gig wearing these obtrusive things as a statement rather than the stylish dancers who wear inconspicuous ear plugs. I simply do not understand why the clubs, the sound men, and the musicians don't FIX this situation and explore more acoustic presentations.

Instead of the audience having to push away sound, they should have to tune in the the sound and listen for it. It seems backwards. You should not have to shield yourself from music when it is presented, you should have to listen for it. I would be more inclined to make up a Rupe Goldberg DIY contraption on the cheap so I can chat up people in noisy clubs and be totally weird and eccentric. I could wear these things when I go up to the sound guys and read them the riot act!

-? ? ? (©fini)

[Blvdre]

For a lower-cost solution, you could try the Etymotic musician's ear filters:

http://earplugstore.stores.yahoo.net/er915and25pr.html

I have a pair myself, and highly recommend them. The frequency attenuation response is pretty flat, they're comfortable, and fairly discreet.

[Clipped and Shorn]

Fini, you are correct sir! That time we heard the Spankers in Berkeley was a real treat on so many levels. I only went to this Petaluma club last night because my friend called and said he was playing and I should support the local phenomenon. I told him right off there would be a good chance that I would reject it quickly. It seems to be a lost cause to convert bands, sound guys, and clubs about this bad audio situation. Even the best jazz club in the Bay Area, Yoshi's, has audio problems IMHO. For example, I hate to see a great band and not really be able to correctly hear the pianist except when she solos.

-? ? ? (©fini)

[mas]

The Etymotic ear plugs are the best low cost solution.

Caught without 'legitimate' hearing protection, a quick 'cheap' set of 'emergency' earplugs can be made from the (unused!) filters of cigarettes that are all too common in most venues.

[fini]

Caught without 'legitimate' hearing protection, a quick 'cheap' set of 'emergency' earplugs can be made from the (unused!) filters of cigarettes that are all too common in most venues. 

I've used toilet paper in a pinch.

[oldbuckster]

Any place with Women , Men, Dancing, Live Band, ALCOHOL ............. It gets louder as the night wears on, Alcohol makes it louder in there anyways, and in the end they crank up the music ............. Try going to a bar, or a private party, with music, and Alcohol, DON'T DRINK, and tell me what happens. At the end of the night that place is loud ............... Oh Demon Alcohol !!!!!!!!!!! ..... Hearing protection is smart !!!!!!!!!

[Coytee]

I've used toilet paper in a pinch

I hope it didn't smear the sound too much ....

[Clipped and Shorn]

I think I was at that same club in Petaluma with you a couple years back? That was real dreck for sound. I think if the word "dance" is included in the draw, you are in for an earache. Let's imagine what it might have been like at the Avalon Ballroom in 1939 with Artie Shaw - - man, I bet that was living!!

In 1939 people still knew how to use their ears to seek out the sound at a performance. Today one needs to fend off the sound rather than listen for it. When I went to the symphony the other day it was fun to have my ears "seek" out the subtle sounds, every one of which could be heard, even the celeste that was brought out for a particular piece.

The venue I was mentioning that was so bad is a relatively new restaurant, not the hall we heard that sound horror in a few years ago. This restaurant space is just the worst for sound. And now fini tells me they also have a reputation for serving food that makes people sick. Don't get me wrong, this is all in one of those new upscale areas that are popping up in many old towns around here.

Funny thing, the worst sound I have heard was at an outdoor concert! Also the best sound I have heard where amplification was involved was at an outdoor concert. It all depends on the expertise of the sound guys and their equipment. Last summer at that annual Solar Fest I heard an amazingly good concert in Hopland by the artist Bruce Coughburn. Turns out he travels with his own expert sound man, who I could observe was constantly tweaking and listening and adjusting. Turns out that Bruce also uses beautiful sounding custom built guitars as well. They made their audio a major concern and it was beautiful. I made an effort to compliment this sound man and told him thow truly unusual it was and how much it was appreciated.

C&S

[ben.]

This issue is not so simple as just truning it down, and hearing is not the only sense involved. Bass at concert levels stimulates our nervous system and makes it just plain feel good.

The problem isn't high SPL in most cases. It's distortion. Poorly designed equipment and poorly trained operators are the problem. The results of a recent line array demo illustrate the issue. Hearing ours first, the company said it sounded great, but that the systemsthey already own 100 boxes of get louder. So they proceeded to an A/B, where they said it wasn't as big a difference as they thought, but theirs were still a little louder. Then our rep broke out a good SPL meter. Ours was 5-6dB louder, but was much easier to listen to. Ours are 2x1" comp drivers firing into a new wave shaper called the Paraline Lens, with 2x10" that are Synergy horn loaded. The subs are a 2x12" tapped horn. The competition used a ribbon HF with 2x12" direct radiators and a 2x15" sub.

Hearing our rig reminded me of the first time I fired up Klipschorns. My wife got home a couple minutes after I started and she walked in to see what was going on. I didn't think it was that loud until I saw her mouth moving and couldn't hear a thing she was saying. Removing distortion is essential to enjoyable high SPL experiences. This doesn't discount the importance of hearing protection to mitigate or prevent damage, though...

I do agree with the differences you guys point out between amplified and acoustic experiences, but there is no going back for many styles of music. The live experience requires high levels to come across in the way the artists intend. I would guess that Bruce Cockburn doesn't keep it below 90dB or anything like that. When I saw him in Buffalo in Niagara Square, it was as loud as anyone, but his engineer did do a good job dealing with the somewhat tired old trap-box rig being used. Nearly all acts with any resources travel with their own FOH engineer.

[HatTrick66]

I've gone to a piece off of a cotton ball in each ear for shows. I have been exploring every little venue in Chicago I can find, and sometimes it's really loud in there. I have also used a little napkin in each ear when I forget the cotton ball. The cotton works great, though. I find not only does it protect my ears, but it also seems like I can hear the music better and I can understand what my buddies are screaming in my ears during the show better, too.