BSO - A Symphonic Tribute To The Grateful Dead

[Brac]

As with most pop music

Mike, I know you weren't refering to the Dead as "pop" just wanted to clarify, cause some might think you were.

[LarryC]

As with most pop music

Mike, I know you weren't refering to the Dead as "pop" just wanted to clarify, cause some might think you were.

The P-word was mine, not Mike's. I'm not into non-classical music, so I don't know what word/words to use for various performers. Maybe I should have said "non-classical," but what's the right or best word?

[Brac]

Gary, I was hoping someone would help me out with the correct term. It's been a long time for me, I am not a "real deadhead". I just know i was offened by the term pop. Of course that was when I thought Mike had used it, Knowing your choice is always classical, I find it, well, less offensive coming from you. I would think maybe folks were waiting on me, while I was waiting for backup.

Just as an example I saw the term ska (type of music) used recently on the forum. I haven't a clue and couldn't pick that out of a lineup. But the term "pop" brings to mind the likes of semi-black noseless child molester's, (mj) and trainwrecks (brittany). Just a bad feeling associsted with the term.

I do listen to classical some times but it is over sirrius channels so I never know who I'm listening to. Sometimes I put it on for the dogs when I'm going out, you know music soothes the savage beast, well it don't.

[LarryC]

Actually, I'm Larry.[] I still find it easier to use the word "pop" as a generic term, when I have no idea what else to call anything that is not jazz or some other things I don't know about (like hip-hop, whatever TF that is). Suggestions are welcome! Until then, I guess I'll just call the other stuff "non-classical."

[garymd]

There isn't any one word that can describe the Grateful Dead's music. It's all over the place. Sometimes it's country or folk rock, other times it's jazzy, quite often it's pure rock n' roll and in many cases it's psychedelic rock. Oh yeah, don't forget bluegrass. Jerry spent a good part of 1973 as the banjo player for a group called "Old And In The Way" along with bluegrass legends Vasser Clements, Pete Rowan and David Grisman.

I forgive Larry for using "pop" as a description. In Larry's world there's classical and "everything else."

[TommyK]

To me, "Pop" is a sub genre of Rock, meant to convey music intended for popular culture - that is trying to appeal to the day's taste and not interested in musicianship. Pop also implies music made to make money, not art for arts sake. The Grateful Dead, pretty much stood for the opposite.

Trying to classify the Dead is not possible. The general term Rock fits, but with strong undertones of Blue Grass from Garcia, Blues (esp from the early days with Pig Pen), and Jazz, with enough americana experimental thrown in to keep you guessing.

What I find very interesting is a more recent sub genre - Jam Band - traces its roots directly to the Dead.

It makes me smile to think someone would listen to an April '77, or Summer '72, or December '79 show and think "pop". Maybe like listening to Miles Davis ******* Brew and thinking Dixieland.

peace,

TommyK

[RWNay]

Gary, What is your favorite sounding release from the Dead? Official Release or Bootleg?

[garymd]

Welcome to the forum.

Sorry but that's an impossible question to answer. I have my favorite studio recordings and favorite live shows but even those are impossible to put in any kind of order. I love the early, bass-heavy bootlegs from 69-71 like some of the Hollywood Palladium and Fillmore West shows. '77 was the greatest touring year IMO and shows like Englishtown, Cornell, Rochester, etc. are all amazing. '74 Roosevelt Stadium - Help-Slipknot-Franklins is hard to beat from a recording standpoint, even on my old maxell. Whoever recorded that show did an amazing job capturing Phil at his best. JGB, Warner Theater, Washington, D.C. '78, late show - w/Maria Muldaur and others is one that's pretty special to me for a couple of reasons. I was there for one although I went to about 200+ shows so it can't be that alone. Maybe my favorite live Jerry solo of all time was during The Harder They Come from that night's late show. My good friend Bob was a DJ for the radio station (WHFS) that broadcasted the show and interviewed Garcia and he took the original soundboard tape from that set back to the studio and remixed it. I borrowed that tape from him about 10 years ago and it's still in my car. It's one of the most amazing recordings of Jerry I've ever heard. I think it was about 2am when he played that song.

As far as studio recordings, I don't think you can beat the early green label Warner pressings. I love the original W7 pressings of Anthem Of The Sun and Aoxomoxoa. If you haven't heard the originals, you should make a point to find a copy. They're pretty rare. Particularly Aoxomoxoa as they were pulled from the shelves early on and replaced with what eventually became the "final mix." I have 4 or 5 original copies of Aoxomoxoa and 2 or 3 of Anthem. In '80 or '81, Phil took Anthem Of The Sun back to the studio, remixed it and re-released it with a white cover. I have a nice copy of that one too and it's really, really good. Their first LP in mono is pretty cool too. It has the gold Warner label.

I could name 100 more but it's almost my bedtime.[|-)]

How about you? What are some of your favorites?

[colterphoto1]

If we started describing the various sub-types of 'popular' musics we'd be here a long time. Here's a few for the fun of it:

A primer from Wikipedia:

Pop music came from the Rock and Roll movement of the early 1950s, when record companies recorded songs that they thought that teenagers would like. Pop music usually uses musical styles
from the other types of music that are popular at the time. Many
different styles of music have become pop music during different time
periods. Often, music companies create pop music styles by taking a
style of music that only a small number of people were listening to,
and then making that music more popular by marketing it to teenagers
and young adults.

In the 1950s, recording companies took blues-influenced rock and roll (for example Chuck Berry and Bo Diddley) and rockabilly (for example Carl Perkins and Buddy Holly) and promoted them as pop music. In the late 1960s and early 1970s, record companies took folk music
bands and musicians and helped them to create a new type of music
called folk rock or acid rock. Folk rock and acid rock mixed folk
music, blues and rock and roll (for example The ByrdsJanis Joplin). and In the 1970s, record companies created several harder, louder type of blues called blues rock or heavy metal, which became a type of pop music (for example the bands Led Zeppelin and Judas Priest).

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, a type of nightclub dance music called Disco turned into a popular type of pop music. Record companies took an experimental, strange-sounding type of music called New Wave music from the 1980s and turned it into pop music bands such as The Cars. In the 1990s record companies took an underground type of hard rock called Grunge (for example the band Nirvana).

Larry, you have been listening to Acid Rock.

Can you feel all the colors swirling in your head?

[RWNay]

Thanks Gary!

Your right, that was a loaded question. I can understand how it would be difficult to pick out a performance based, but a sound wise only should help narrow down the highlights. Sound quality has a huge distinction in these speakers. It seems to bring out many flaws in the recordings and I find it hard to listen to some of my bootlegs due to this. But the offical releases are a few steps better in quality than what we have circulating. I have too much Dead to listen to for a lifetime. About 1,400 GB on hard drives and about 600 or so CD's that need to be ripped onto the drives. The official releases that I like sound wise are; "Ladies and Gentelmen The Grateful Dead", "Grateful Dead Movie Soundtrack" and Bonus songs on the DVD, "Steppin' Out With The Grateful Dead" & "Rockin' The Rehin". The Multi-track shows just Shine!!! Cornell 77/ May 77, most of 73, Europe 72 & Fall 72 are my favorite boots.

74 Roosevelt didnt have a Help-Slipknot!-Franklin's. Didnt play that untill 75, except for a few Slipknot jams in 74. Maybe 76 Roosevelt, with that *** pounding Phil bass, great show! 77 was a great touring year, but hard to give it a better overall year than anything from 72-74. I will give you May 77 as one of the greatest tours ever. And that Warner, DC 78 release is in my car as we speak, great couple of shows (early & late)! I wish they would start releasing more JGB shows.

How do you like the new Winterland 73 box set?

[garymd]

Sorry, I meant '76 Roosevelt. Senior moment.

Mark listens to way more Dead these days than I do and I'm guessing you do also. He should jump in on the discussion too. There's not a lot of GD talk on this forum.

Never heard a Winterland I didn't like. I'm not overly impressed with any of the DVDs but they're fun to watch. And yes, more JGBs would be great.....in ANY format!

I never got into downloading shows like many others like my little brother for example (he's 40 but still my little bro). Some tapes just sound so good even still and IMO beat the crap out of some of the DPs and other releases. It was nice when they finaly released Englishtown (I was at that show also). I still have about 4 versions on tape. That Estimated-Eyes turned more folks at my college into Deadheads then anything else. Also, the '78 Iowa show (DPs 18) is one of my favs. Great show and excellent recording.

Those original W7s on Khorns and tubes can't be beat!!! Are you into vinyl?

[garymd]

77 was a great touring year, but hard to give it a better overall year than anything from 72-74. I will give you May 77 as one of the greatest tours ever.

I suppose I have personal reasons for preferring '77. I went to a lot of shows for one thing. Also, I just loved the way Jerry solo'd in '77/'78. His solos on songs like The Deal, Bown-Eyed Women, etc. were about 3 times longer in '77 than '72-'74 (or just about any other year) and had that cool gritty "garage" type sound if you know what I mean.

I've never been a Bobby fan so anything he did in any of those years doesn't make a difference in my book. The biggest downside to '77 was Donna sang too loud.

[mark1101]

You guys are way out of my league with the facts, dates, and show trivia. Gary, you remind me of my old college roommate. He could walk into the room and tell you what show was playing. It could even be during space. Now.....that is a Deadhead. I never got to that point. I've read a ton and continue to listen a ton.......just never got able to spit it all out like you guys.

[garymd]

You guys are way out of my league with the facts, dates, and show trivia. Gary, you remind me of my old college roommate. He could walk into the room and tell you what show was playing. It could even be during space. Now.....that is a Deadhead. I never got to that point. I've read a ton and continue to listen a ton.......just never got able to spit it all out like you guys.

LOL. There's only one way a person can truly apreciate space. That said, I haven't enjoyed space in a LONG, LONG time! That was the worst thing about cassettes. You had to fast forward through drums and space.

[Audible Nectar]

For the benefit of Larry, if I were to ascribe a one word term for classifying the Grateful Dead, that word would be "psychedelic".

But since one word is never enough to describe any entity as singularly unique as the GD, I would expand that definition to include "American, jug-band-style, rock and roll roots oriented psychedelic outfit."

I think it was promoter Bill Graham who said about GD, "They're not the best at what they do, they are the only ones who do what they do."

I could package up the entire 1970's decade of live Grateful Dead and recommend it all. A local talk show host, in the midst of an unrelated discussion, asked a caller to make a choice: go back 40 years in time and use the experience/knowledge you now have to live those 40 years again, or begin living at the age you would have been 40 years ago starting right now. The host stated he would prefer the latter, because who would want to live through "stagflation" again and so forth. I would prefer the former, because I would want to see a lot of these shows again (not to mention Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin, The Band, and others too numerous to mention).......in addition to gathering up all of that old tube gear because transistors were better, and so forth.

For the uninitiated and curious, I recommend the live release "One From The Vault", August 13, 1975 at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco. This is a very clean, well presented recording, offering a good mix of straightforward, easy to enjoy material with enough "psychedelia" to show you what this band can really do in this element. Put simply, the band just cooks and is very focused.....almost TOO focused for thier norm, but the energy that prevails from what was a very important performance (first performance of material from Blues For Allah at an invite only show for 500 people) translates well through the recording. This was my first GD live tape. I wore it out, so you can imagine that I was quite happy when it was released as an official offering.

In the cassette/analog days, many would "skip" drums/space by the convenience of how that was usually laid out on the tape. The good "editors" would lay that show out so that drums was last on side A and space was first on side B, so you could flip the tape when drums started and end up where space ends. The spot where the taper chose to edit could be a topic of debate amongst the exceptionally choosy/geeky collectors, as did the specific sources/"generations". Those were the days.....

To me, the Grateful Dead are as American as hot dogs and apple pie. They exemplified "freedom of expression". The symphonic "takes" and spinoffs/"logical musical extensions" don't surprise me in the least - I suspect that this music will be played, sang, and otherwise enjoyed for generations to come.

If you enjoyed hearing the GD do "space", then you must have been at the show. You had to be there[]

[JBryan]

This thread is too funny... reminds me of how little I remember about the shows. I only went to a handful of GD's shows - mostly when a DH friend asked and I never followed them around but it was a unique experience to say the least. I do recall an interview where Bob Weir was talking about making the 'American Beauty' album. It was noted that the band did everything they could think of to piss off the suits and techs - mainly to have more control of the project. At one point, Bob told the recording engineer that he wanted 'THICK AIR' at the beginning of a song. After a heated back n' forth, the engineer threw his hands up and walked out of the studio mumbling "thick air' repeatedly. He never came back but Bob did figure out how to get 'Thick Air' on tape and the band moved on.

[garymd]

The amazing thing is that they actually did record the "thick air" and used it on the record (although I thought it was a different LP). I think they went to the dessert at night with mics. Funny as hell. The recording execs at Warner though Mickey Hart was insane. They were scared to death of him and basically let the band do whatever they wanted so as not to piss him off.

BTW Audible - Nice write-up. Couldn't have said it better myself. I often think about going back in time and one thing I'd certainly do is go to some real early Dead shows. I'd LOVE to see a Pig Pen show and hear songs like Doin' That Rag, The Eleven, and all those other great tunes we missed by just a few years. I also would have spent my entire summer of '73 touring with Old & In The Way!!!

[LarryC]

OT -- I was just listening to Janie Harris's weekly Sat evening radio program on jazz, broadcast here in Boise, Idaho, and liked Lil' Darlin' by the Ray Brown Trio enough to order the CD Summer Wind (http://www.amazon.com/Summer-Wind-Live-at-Loa/dp/B0000006IV/ref=pd_bbs_9?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1212287963&sr=8-9). The Gene Harris Trio used to play here at the Idanha Hotel. Janie was his wife; she said she watched the performance, and to her it was "magical."

I once had the Soular Energy LP but sold it, so I'm trying Ray Brown again.

What or where is "Loa," anyway?

[mark1101]

Ratdog about to play 2nd set right now........live.......mountainjam.com. It's free....and it is coming in pretty good here streaming through the system.

[Brac]

hits? trips? hits?...........