Harman Kardon Receivers?

[sionghchan]

All,

I see that the HK receivers are all quite weak in wattage. Will the 154 with 30watts per channel or the model 254 with 50 watts per channel good enough to power a RF-52 for now and eventually a RF63 or RF83?

Many thanks..

SH

[Youthman]

IMO, HK makes great receivers. I had an older HK AVR55 (55 watts/ch) receiver that I used to drive a paire of Klipsch CF-2's and then a pair of RF-83's. The HK sounded amazing for music. It had better separation of musical instruments than my current more powerful 100 watt/ch Onkyo. I can say that at high volumes, the HK ran out of gas. The speakers began to sound harsh where my Onkyo sound clean at the same volume since it has much more headroom than the HK. If you went with the HK, I would definitely go with the 50 watts vs the 30 watts. Either will probably sound great, just depends on how loud you like it to go. Will you be using it for mostly music or movies?

[oldbuckster]

H-K ratings tend to be Low compared to other brands ................

[travis-g]

i have a avr-7300 thats rated at 110w per channel and it kills .very impressive

[sionghchan]

IMO, HK makes great receivers.  I had an older HK AVR55 (55 watts/ch) receiver that I used to drive a paire of Klipsch CF-2's and then a pair of RF-83's.  The HK sounded amazing for music.  It had better separation of musical instruments than my current more powerful 100 watt/ch Onkyo.  I can say that at high volumes, the HK ran out of gas.  The speakers began to sound harsh where my Onkyo sound clean at the same volume since it has much more headroom than the HK.  If you went with the HK, I would definitely go with the 50 watts vs the 30 watts.  Either will probably sound great, just depends on how loud you like it to go.  Will you be using it for mostly music or movies?

Thanks for your reply! I would like to purchase the receiver mainly for music. Movies really just require an average amount of amplification. I mean, if I lost some details in a movie, not the end of the world. However, music is where it counts for me. I did have a look at HK's Stereo receivers (both above 100watts per channel) and am tempted here but then, that setup would be great for music but I will be stuck with my current very lousy HTIB "receiver" for movies. So, that isn't great either.

BTW, how loud did you get before your HK ran out of gas? Ear bleed levels?

SH

[sionghchan]

i have a avr-7300 thats rated at 110w per channel and it kills .very impressive

Hmm...I wonder why HK stopped producing high wattage receivers like the 7300? Now, the highest current model is the 354 with 75watts per channel. Any ideas anyone?

Thakns.

SH

[Fish]

Any HK 75 watts would be prefered over Onkyo etc...100+watts.There is a reason that the HKs weigh more than avrs with more rated power.I have an Onkyo 805,it can't compete for music with my old HK 635.

[Youthman]

BTW, how loud did you get before your HK ran out of gas? Ear bleed levels?

SH

It was not able to get to ear bleed levels like my Onkyo can. The Onkyo gets extremely loud and still is crystal clear with my RF-83's. Not sure why HK began reducing their wattage. They have always had lower wattage than other brands but thier build quality, sound quality and power is still extremely impressive. It might be like the old school Rockford Fosgate car amps. I had a Punch 45 which was 45 watts/ch PEAK POWER and only 22.5 watts/ch RMS. I had it bridge mono and it gave my two 12" woofers a workout. Fosgate were known to underrate their amps or maybe they showed what their true power was and others exagerated. Might be the same case with HK.

Check out this thread. or do a search in the forums for AVR55 and you will see some of my comments about my previous receiver. Good luck.

[dougdrake]

It may be more accurate to say that most other receiver manufacturers overstate their ratings rather than HK understating theirs. You need to closely look at what ratings are being reported - 2 channels driven at 1000hz, all channels driven, etc.... If you look at bench tests of HK amps and receivers, you'll consistently see them holding their rated output across all channels under varying loads. I don't have any specifics for an HK, but as an example of understating ratings my Acurus 200 amp, rated at 200wpc, bench tests around 320wpc IIRC.

Additionally, they tend to use beefy power supplies which help maintain power during demanding musical passages.

.

[CECAA850]

I had an AVR-7200. It was a beastly receiver that weighed a ton. Way underrated on wattage. It sounded great with my 7 Series speakers. If you're worried about wattage with the new receivers, you can always look into outboard amplification (provided they have pre-outs).

[Bill H.]

Here's the 7300 Reburb model off the HK Website. Fully Warranty and a decent price..........

http://www.harmanaudio.com/search_browse/product_detail.asp?urlMaterialNumber=AVR%207300-Z&status=

[sionghchan]

Sold guys.. I'm going HK for receivers. Now, just a matter of choosing one. What Bill is suggesting is very tempting indeed.

[sionghchan]

Sold guys... I'm going HK for Receivers. What Bill is suggesting is mighty tempting indeed. Also, I have a source to purchase brand new (current products) at a very good price... So, now, time to choose...

Any help here would be appreciated as I'm a real newbies here. Also, many thanks for your help so far!

SH

[Bill H.]

Listen if possible to the Receiver hooked up to your speakers. Decide on your Budget, Purchase................Balls in your Court now.

[Arky]

I had an AVR-7200. It was a beastly receiver that weighed a ton

I have one in the bedroom.

It sounded great with my 7 Series speakers

Yep.

[travis-g]

If you can buy a 7300 for a good price do it its a sweet product with a ton of options if you dont need hdmi switching its the one

[Guest srobak]

Hmm...I wonder why HK stopped producing high wattage receivers like the 7300? Now, the highest current model is the 354 with 75watts per channel. Any ideas anyone?

Thakns.
SH

This is incorrect. The 745 has 85wpc.

I have a 645 at 75wpc pushing RF-35's, RC-62, RS-62's and RS-42's and it is nothing short of awesome, with plenty of overhead to go...

[sionghchan]

What I meant with HK receivers seem that they used to produce > 100wpc receivers ala their Stereo Receivers e.g. AVR3490 with 120wpc into two channels. That is mighty powerful. However, right now, their flagship, the AVR354 (at least until their 654 and 754 come out in North America), is only pushing 75wpc.

Granted, I have learnt more about HK receivers and amps...as per article below:

FYI- Here is a FAQ from Harman Kardon's website about their power ratings:



A Harman Kardon 50-watt amplifier will sound better, louder and cleaner
than most 100-watt amplifiers from other companies. The reason is very
simple. We give "true" wattage ratings, and our amplifiers utilize
something called High-Current Capability (HCC). Please see the
comparison below for further explanation. Other companies (100 watts):



Many companies have found new, convenient ways to get "big" wattage
ratings on their amplifiers. They may take one frequency or tone (1kHz)
and push it through one channel of amplification. This way the power
supply only needs to supply power to one tone and one channel (no one
listens to one tone through one speaker). This is not a difficult task
for a power supply, so you get a nice, high rating like 100 watts. Now
let's feed that one tone (1kHz) into 2 channels. Now the power supply
has to supply power to 2 channels. The wattage rating is drastically
reduced. Now let's take that one tone and make it ALL tones (pink
noise). The power supply now has to supply power to all frequencies in
both channels. Again, the wattage rating is drastically reduced. Now,
your 100-watt amp is suddenly 50 watts (approximately).



Let's take it one step further. When you turn the amp up and begin to
average the 50 watts of power, what happens to all of the
dynamics/peaks in the sound? It can't get any louder, because the amp
has hit its "ceiling," so the sound gets "clipped." The human ear
typically can?t hear this clipping because peaks pass by so quickly
but, nonetheless, the dynamics are gone.



Our amplifiers (50 watts):



We still rate our amplifiers the old-fashioned way - all frequencies
with both channels driven. So "50 watts" is 50 watts. Twenty-five years
ago, a 50-watt amp was very powerful. These days you can go to a store
and hear a "300 watt" receiver and it won't impress; it lacks dynamic
punch.



Now let's take it that extra step. When you turn the amp up and begin
to average the 50 watts of power, the amp still needs to put out much
more power every time a snare drum, triangle, or movie dynamic (e.g.,
hand slapping a face) hits. Our amps are able to instantaneously put
out 20-100 amps (depending on the model) of high current to the
speakers, allowing those dynamics to come through loud and clear,
without any distortion. This brings the overall decibel average up,
making it seem even louder that 50-watts.

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Because of this, and because of the help from so many members of this great forum, I've settled for and bought the HK AVR354 receiver with 75wpc. I believe an HK's 75wpc is equivalent to other brand's 130wpc (conservatively). That sholud be more than enough for running RF-52s and even RF-83s later when I take the plunge there.

SH

[Bill H.]

Congrats on your Selection. Please Post some Pictures when you get everything Setup...........and Welcome to "Upgradeites"..................

[sionghchan]

Congrats on your Selection. Please Post some Pictures when you get everything Setup...........and Welcome to "Upgradeites"..................

Thanks Bill for your help! I still have to wait for the HK AVR354 to arrive. It is on backorder (I think it is just starting to be shipped to retailers) and I don't see me getting it for another month at least. It is going to be a mighty looonnnggg month.

Can't to plug in my RF-52s for the first time. Maybe by next year, they'll be paired with the RF-63s or RF-83s then.

Can't wait!

SH