Jump to content

Tire pressure vs Fuel shortages


HarryO

Recommended Posts

I see this analysis done all the time, but it is not clear to me what it means. People don't rationalize the purchase of each car on a "gas mileage investment basis." If they did, no one would ever buy SUVs or over-sized pick up trucks. They buy what they like, what they can afford, what makes them feel "right." If the car buying public were "perfectly rational" they'd all open up Consumer Reports, figure out the lowest cost of ownership per mile, and end up with a Toyota Corolla or something like that. But, in fact, people buy totally silly cars of every sort of type and description you can imagine. Some with mileage as low as 8 MPG - and they will pay a premium price to have that thing. Some cares cost more than other similar cars for no other reason than snob appeal - another totally irrational reason to buy.

In our area, they sell the Prius as fast as they come into the lot. The cost of $23,000 is certainly in the mid-price region of new cars, and 46 MPG is about as high as you can purchase. It certainly qualifies as a reasonable idea, IF you like the car. It's a Toyota - it is made well, drives well, and so on. Why wouldn't people like it?

I only know a very few people who buy new cars on a "lowest ownership cost per mile" basis. I dare estimate it is a very minor percentage of the population.

Well count me in the minor percentage you are talking about. For me 95% of my interest in a car is what it can do for me. Sure there are cars I would LOVE to have such as the 08 Dodge Challanger. Image car YEP, Suck every last drop of fuel available gas guzzler YEP High performance? YOU BET! Would I own it if I could? IN A HEART BEAT but at a highway mpg of about 15, it would be a Sunday only car. The problem is I don't have the $40K needed to buy it to spare. Why do I want it? IT WOULD BE A BLAST TO DRIVE!

I do own a truck that gets 9/15 mpg, it is a tool I use to make money with. It is not used every day but when I need to move 8,000# of equipment and trailer, it is a vehicle that can do the job.

My sister and brother-in law own a Prius, It is an OK car, nothing special though. It looks homley has only fair performance and the boost in fuel economy isn't enough to want me to own one. I can buy a LOT of gas for the $20,400 price difference between my 04 Stratus and the lowest priced used 04 $27,995, 50,864 mile Prius sitting on a dealers lot with an inferior warranty. This is way above the MSRP for a 2008 model which is $21600 to $23800 which leads me to beleave that there is a hefty "desireability" surcharge in place.

Prius

If you can buy those at the price you quoted, I would be very supprised indeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 62
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I left out (2) for you to fill in the blank. [:P]

Less bang for the buck..... Hybrid cars are not worth it, yet. Solar is not worth it, yet. Corn is not worth it, yet. And so on...... I mean economically worth it (in terms of dollars, cents, change, buck-a-ronies). I understand you value a clean conscience and would add that to the ticket. Not me on this issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Less bang for the buck..... Hybrid cars are not worth it, yet.

Same argument I made to Wayne. Worth what? Is a dually 4WD truck "worth it"? Is a Corvette "worth it?" Is a Mercedes 500 "worth it?" That statement has no context. It's obviuously "worth it" to whomever buys it.

Yes, I agree. There are differing opinions. Those who support "the tax on stupidity" and those who don't. (You know, I'm just kidding, and I agree with your last observation). [;)]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Indeed the lead battery recycling program is working very well but the larger picture at 50,000 feet, as you said, is the same with the recycling program and the same one that is behind developing NEW products, namely $$$$$$ It is the work, sweat and desire of someone who sees a way to make some coin that drives the process. Government PUSHING changes is the LEAST efficent way to develop anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see this analysis done all the time, but it is not clear to me what it means. People don't rationalize the purchase of each car on a "gas mileage investment basis." If they did, no one would ever buy SUVs or over-sized pick up trucks. I wish that were true, my father has owned only 4 cylinder cars since I can remember (1990) even when gas was only 99 cents he reluctantly purchased only 4 cylinder models. They buy what they like, what they can afford, what makes them feel "right." If the car buying public were "perfectly rational" they'd all open up Consumer Reports, figure out the lowest cost of ownership per mile, and end up with a Toyota Corolla or something like that. But, in fact, people buy totally silly cars of every sort of type and description you can imagine. Some with mileage as low as 8 MPG - and they will pay a premium price to have that thing. Some cares cost more than other similar cars for no other reason than snob appeal - another totally irrational reason to buy.

In our area, they sell the Prius as fast as they come into the lot. The cost of $23,000 is certainly in the mid-price region of new cars (midrange?), and 46 MPG is about as high as you can purchase. It certainly qualifies as a reasonable idea, IF you like the car. It's a Toyota - it is made well, drives well, and so on. Why wouldn't people like it?

I only know a very few people who buy new cars on a "lowest ownership cost per mile" basis. I dare estimate it is a very minor percentage of the population. (My dad tends to as he expects the car to last atleast 6-10 years and little cost outside of maintainance, so far it wasn't so bad)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I left out (2) for you to fill in the blank. Stick out tongue

Less bang for the buck..... Hybrid cars are not worth it, yet (costs too much). Solar is not worth it, yet (solar cells are not efficent enough or cheap enough). Corn is not worth it, yet (it never will, damn you farmers that wanted to increase profits). And so on...... I mean economically worth it (in terms of dollars, cents, change, buck-a-ronies). I understand you value a clean conscience and would add that to the ticket. Not me on this issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In our area, they sell the Prius as fast as they come into the lot. The cost of $23,000 is certainly in the mid-price region of new cars

Whoa! In my area those are going for $34,000. Please check with your dealer on pricing and if $23,000 is correct we need to go into business on this. Sounds like $5,500 for each of us on a pass-thru sale.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re; Greedy Dealers. In Northwestern Ontario... we have few car dealerships, and the ones we do have rape and pillage you when it is time to buy a vehicle. As an example, a good friend of mine bought a Honda mini-van a couple years ago out of province in Steinbach, Manitoba. ( about an 8 hour drive ) On the same optioned vehicle, trim level etc... he saved over $ 4000 before taxes AND because he was out of town, they put him up overnight in a motel and paid for a meal while the paperwork was completed.

That was over the "local dealership" which is still 70 miles away from here. The price at the local dealer... sticker MSRP + freight + PDI, etc... no deal. Sorry... but for $ 4G + I would drive 8 hours as well. Most dealers will sell at whatever they can get away with, however no dealer should be selling over MSRP for any reason, sounds like you should be calling the Toyota 1-800 complaints line.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re; Greedy Dealers. In Northwestern Ontario... we have few car dealerships, and the ones we do have rape and pillage you when it is time to buy a vehicle. As an example, a good friend of mine bought a Honda mini-van a couple years ago out of province in Steinbach, Manitoba. ( about an 8 hour drive ) On the same optioned vehicle, trim level etc... he saved over $ 4000 before taxes AND because he was out of town, they put him up overnight in a motel and paid for a meal while the paperwork was completed.

That was over the "local dealership" which is still 70 miles away from here. The price at the local dealer... sticker MSRP + freight + PDI, etc... no deal. Sorry... but for $ 4G + I would drive 8 hours as well. Most dealers will sell at whatever they can get away with, however no dealer should be selling over MSRP for any reason, sounds like you should be calling the Toyota 1-800 complaints line.

What you might not be aware of is that manufacturers have a formula they use to actually ration vehicles. Under that formula, the dealer gets to buy up to X vehicles based upon the dealers' prior sales and such. Huge shifts in demand can obviously affect the accuracy of the formula in terms of whether the dealer will have insufficient inventories. When dealers have insufficient inventories in a high demand market, guess what? The price goes up. If the customer wants "one of the rare jewels" enough, the customer must bid over MSRP. It is not unlike many other products when a shortage exists. Nothing unusual. Rather than pay it, the customer is certainly free to choose a different model that is in greater supply.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see this analysis done all the time, but it is not clear to me what it means. People don't rationalize the purchase of each car on a "gas mileage investment basis." If they did, no one would ever buy SUVs or over-sized pick up trucks. They buy what they like, what they can afford, what makes them feel "right." If the car buying public were "perfectly rational" they'd all open up Consumer Reports, figure out the lowest cost of ownership per mile, and end up with a Toyota Corolla or something like that. But, in fact, people buy totally silly cars of every sort of type and description you can imagine. Some with mileage as low as 8 MPG - and they will pay a premium price to have that thing. Some cares cost more than other similar cars for no other reason than snob appeal - another totally irrational reason to buy.

In our area, they sell the Prius as fast as they come into the lot. The cost of $23,000 is certainly in the mid-price region of new cars, and 46 MPG is about as high as you can purchase. It certainly qualifies as a reasonable idea, IF you like the car. It's a Toyota - it is made well, drives well, and so on. Why wouldn't people like it?

I only know a very few people who buy new cars on a "lowest ownership cost per mile" basis. I dare estimate it is a very minor percentage of the population.

***

Your opinion is simply that. And it is often wrong, in my opinion. Think consumption. You seem to be advocating rational consumption. Do you think that it is possible that there are people that buy Hummers that consume less oil that those that buy Tiyotees? Of course there are. Why not advocate people moving closer to their work, where they shop, and living in smaller homes? Is that rational? Is buying a large home an exercise in snob appeal? And who decides what is large?

Run up the cost to our country of sending dollars to foreign countries. Thats what is happening even though the vehicle may be built here by a foreign country. I personally will never buy a Korean built vehicle, for example, regardless of what you think is 'rational'.

Have you ever been in an acident in a Prius? My bet is that if you had you'd wish you had been in a larger less rational vehicle. That is, if you were still alive.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you might not be aware of is that manufacturers have a formula they use to actually ration vehicles. Under that formula, the dealer gets to buy up to X vehicles based upon the dealers' prior sales and such. Huge shifts in demand can obviously affect the accuracy of the formula in terms of whether the dealer will have insufficient inventories. When dealers have insufficient inventories in a high demand market, guess what? The price goes up. If the customer wants "one of the rare jewels" enough, the customer must bid over MSRP. It is not unlike many other products when a shortage exists. Nothing unusual. Rather than pay it, the customer is certainly free to choose a different model that is in greater supply.

So the dealer pushes everything but high gas mileage vehicles, does not order more fuel efficient vehicles or encourage in any way the purchase of such vehicles, and then raises the price through the roof when gas goes up. Why should a customer do business with people who are short-sighted, opportunistic vultures?

The Toyota dealer that I talked to runs a lot of local ads pushing Tundra trucks. Because of the formula, this is what they are allowed to get and sell from Toyota. Now they are stuck with a lot full of big trucks that they can't sell. And at $35K they won't be selling many Priuses either.

If I were to buy a Prius, the clear path would be to fly to Texas or Cal or any other area with reasonable prices, buy the car there then have a paid vacation plus money to spare to buy more audio toys.[:D]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What you might not be aware of is that manufacturers have a formula they use to actually ration vehicles. Under that formula, the dealer gets to buy up to X vehicles based upon the dealers' prior sales and such. Huge shifts in demand can obviously affect the accuracy of the formula in terms of whether the dealer will have insufficient inventories. When dealers have insufficient inventories in a high demand market, guess what? The price goes up. If the customer wants "one of the rare jewels" enough, the customer must bid over MSRP. It is not unlike many other products when a shortage exists. Nothing unusual. Rather than pay it, the customer is certainly free to choose a different model that is in greater supply.

So the dealer pushes everything but high gas mileage vehicles, does not order more fuel efficient vehicles or encourage in any way the purchase of such vehicles, and then raises the price through the roof when gas goes up. Why should a customer do business with people who are short-sighted, opportunistic vultures?

The Toyota dealer that I talked to runs a lot of local ads pushing Tundra trucks. Because of the formula, this is what they are allowed to get and sell from Toyota. Now they are stuck with a lot full of big trucks that they can't sell. And at $35K they won't be selling many Priuses either.

If I were to buy a Prius, the clear path would be to fly to Texas or Cal or any other area with reasonable prices, buy the car there then have a paid vacation plus money to spare to buy more audio toys.Big Smile

Not like you described. The dealer wants to buy whatever is "hot." The manufacturer has only so many to go around. The dealer cannot just get more that easily when he sells out. This is the case with competing dealers, too. They all know that. They run short on inventory of "hot" products and have a hard time keeping them in stock. Based on the high demand, they can command higher prices, and people will pay them. And as to the truck.... you bet. Toyota wants the dealers to get stuck with the big, gas-guzzling trucks that are in low demand right now. You didn't think Toyota wanted to be stuck with them, did you? Go ask your local dealer whether they are getting way above sticker on the Prius. You say they wouldn't be selling many at that inflated price, but apparently they do. They aren't going to ask what they can't get for them and sit there with a car lot full of unsold Priuses (Prii?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There are lots of ways to save our resources including more effecient vehicles, different means of energy, moving closer to work, driving less, etc, etc.

My initial thinking here is "now" and utilizing best what we have at hand.

Walk out to your vehicle and make sure your tires are properly inflated, vehicle maintained to maximize effeciency, and careful planning on driving where possible and convenient.

Just the simple "now at hand" things can make a substantial reduction in present consumption rates. Of course it will take everyone doing it but just cutting out some of the waste will make a major impact in a perfect world.

We can start now with the simplest measures and make a difference. We can no longer afford to ignore the obvious nor start tomorrow. I see this issue as a "NOW" thing to be taken seriously.

Besides, it would give a big "bite in the A$$" to major oil companies and the A..holes driving up the prices gambling and controling the fuel futures on the stock markets.

JMHO

Harry

Harry

Harry

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not like you described. The dealer wants to buy whatever is "hot." The manufacturer has only so many to go around. The dealer cannot just get more that easily when he sells out. This is the case with competing dealers, too. They all know that. They run short on inventory of "hot" products and have a hard time keeping them in stock. Based on the high demand, they can command higher prices, and people will pay them. And as to the truck.... you bet. Toyota wants the dealers to get stuck with the big, gas-guzzling trucks that are in low demand right now. You didn't think Toyota wanted to be stuck with them, did you? Go ask your local dealer whether they are getting way above sticker on the Prius. You say they wouldn't be selling many at that inflated price, but apparently they do. They aren't going to ask what they can't get for them and sit there with a car lot full of unsold Priuses (Prii?).

The American vehicle dealers in my area can get any new vehicle from a dealer in other parts of the country for their normal price plus transportation costs. Why not Toyota?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...