Cleve

This is why GM is going broke... A client of mine with a brand new Tahoe developed major engine trouble within a few weeks of delivery, before the first oil change was even due. He was without his $35,000+ vehicle for over a month. In both instances, a company that valued it's customers would have swapped out the vehicle, no questions asked. BEC should not be placed in this position because GM is a top-heavy bureacracy that can't see the forest from the trees. If I were you, I'd file a complaint with the State A.G's office - many states have "Lemon Laws" that severely penalize dealerships/manufacturers for this type of inexcusable behavior.

---------------- On 6/30/2005 7:04:31 AM Frzninvt wrote: I am glad it all worked out and you have the ULTIMATE matching center to your CF-4's. There is a pair of CF-3's on eBay right now. ---------------- I'm going to wait and buy another pair of CF-4s this fall. No sense in compromising at this late stage - if I'm going to do it, I should do it right! BTW, I've had a chance to do some more listening - I scanned through my DVDs of K-19 and Kill Bill last night. I also reconfigured the system so my Mac4100's amp section is powering the center CF-4, rather than the somewhat anemic Dynaco HT amplifier. I can't believe the difference that a full-size, heavy hitting speaker in the center makes. Especially in Kill Bill - those fight scenes funnel a lot of sound effects through the center. In the second scene, where Black Mamba fights Copperhead at her suburban house - the impacts are painfully loud, and consuming in excess of 30 watts just for the center. When Copperhead fires the gun - I could feel the pressure in my ears, like it was a real shot. Something else - the narrative dialogue is VERY close miked - I couldn't tell that with the RC-25, but it's readily apparent now - the husky breathyness when Bill talks, when Beatrix narrates... it can't really be described, it has to be experienced.

Well, here she is... The CF-4 survived its 2700 mile trek from Seattle to here. The speaker was packed decent - doubleboxed, and well padded. I'm glad it was doubleboxed - there were 3 or 4 good sized holes punched in the outer box. However, I think the seller was a bit optimistic in throwing out terms like New Old Stock. It might well have been brand new up until it was recently discovered - but it looked like somebody had since been using it for a stage/pa speaker or something zany like that, not just a one day 'picnic'. Quite a few dents/dings in the veneer, and it's been modded with some oddball pegs next to the factory feet - like it was intended to be somehow stacked atop something else. And the corners on the back of the speaker have had some kind of plastic reinforcements/brackets added. However, since I've laid it sideways on the floor, and set a tv atop it, most of those blemishes are hidden. Sonically, it tests fine, which is what matters, and $250 bucks isn't a terrible price. I got some neighborhood guys to give me a hand moving all this hefty equipment around - and got her hooked up, the levels balanced, and ready to go. In a word - AWESOME! The soundstage is totally seamless from left to right. I guess timbre IS important. And boy, do vocals sound a lot better than the RC-25 it replaces. Now when I get another pair for rear surround, and a couple more McIntosh amps and a Mac A/V preamp, I'll be all set! Simple, huh?

I'm not in the market for LaScalas, but I feel strongly that seller should get some kind of warning from Ebay for ending an auction early due to an under the table sale. Any intent to end an auction EARLY due to local sale should be CLEARLY listed in the auction text. Of course, this guy only has a 97% positive, so it suggests he's not a straight-shooter anyways.

The track "Intro: Organ Grinder/Long Pipes gives an interesting high and low frequency demonstration. The highest frequency this Wurlitzer organ can hit is 8000 hz, the lowest 16 hz. What's interesting - he did the bass test with and without harmonics. Without harmonics, 32 hz is loud - then he starts to go down. Non-harmonic Low G is about the lowest usable with my Klipsch speakers - It wasn't so much heard as felt - at that frequency the entire back of the couch I was sitting on was trembling and resonating. It was VERY cool. Another good track is Mozart's "For Barrel Organ" for organ you can feel. Be cautioned though - this recording has nearly 50 db of dynamic range - during the quiet parts, the power meters were bouncing between a paltry 1/500 and 1/50 of a watt, but during the conclusion, it pushed my system to about -3 db (~93 watts per channel) Love this stuff.

Those are very nice. I don't think you'll have any luck selling them here - we're all poor from buying @#$% audio stuff. My suggestion would be to try and sell one on Ebay - see if you get any nibbles. Keep the reserve low, and maybe it will get bid up high. And get someone to review the text before you place the auction. Good luck Jim

The following is simply copied from a post I made at AudioKarma's forums this morning... I felt like this is my craziest Epay purchase yet - a N.O.S. Klipsch CF-4 that was in Seattle. Let me detail the craziness... 1. The speaker weighs 108 lbs unpacked 2. I'm gonna be using it as a CENTER channel to match my existing pair of CF-4s. Timbre match and all that jazz. 3. The Seller specified "Local Pickup Only" 4. Again, the speaker is in SEATTLE, some 2650 miles from my locale in Western NYS. "Local pickup" indeed. Factoring all the above, the logical right-side of my brain said "Fuhgeddaboutit" i.e, walk away and wait for a closer auction. But the impulsive, idiot left-side of my brain, the one I make most of my purchasing decisions with, said "Go for it!" After all, CF-4s I've found are rather scarce, just slightly more plentiful then hen's teeth. Even more rare, a single CF-4, rather than a pair. So, of course, I went "for it". I did, at least, do some investigating. According to the seller, even though it was essentially a new speaker, the original factory box/crate was M.I.A. That was my first hope, and would have made life easy. However, then I looked into it - there was a FedEx-Kinkos with a couple miles of the seller's locale. They do packing and then shipping via Fed Ex Ground. My McIntosh 2205 was packed and shipped via this method last year, with great success. In the auction, he had offered local delivery, so I figured I'd have the gent drop the speaker off at the FedEx-Kinkos and I'd handle the rest. So I won the auction for a mere $250. CF-4s regularly sell for 800-1000 a pair used, if you can get them at all. I estimated via Fed Ex's website that ground shipping would be about $70 - and maybe another 50-60 bucks for packing. The seller told me he was willing to drop it off for me. So, my plan was coming together. Then, the morning after the auction I call the Fed-Ex Kinkos to make arrangements. I learned, to my dismay, that the largest packing they do is 24" x 24" x24" (the CF-4 is ~ 44" tall!) I suggested that perhaps they conjoin two of their largest boxes together in order to ship the speaker? The reluctance with which this suggestion was met made me decide this wasn't gonna work. As they say, the best laid plans of mice and men.... Now I'm feeling exceptionally stupid - I have a paid for speaker on the other side of the friggin' continent. I'm not just gonna walk away from it - whatever it costs/takes its gonna come to me! The right side of my brain is now smirking at me... After checking on the web for packing services in Seattle (I found one freight company that would charge a paltry $500!) I gave Mailboxes Etc a try. I called the store and spoke with an employee, and he indicated that he thought it would cost about $188. This would include them picking up the speaker from the seller, taking it back to the store for packing, and then UPS Ground shipping from there to here with $400 in insurance. Expensive, but at least I'd get it. So I e-mailed the seller, and told him about the change of plans. I got his address, phone number, and hours of availability and called MBE back to finalize. Then the fellow said he was very sorry, but there'd been a mistake - it was going to cost $288 - he'd misread his charts but didn't have my contact info to call me back !!! At this point, I wanted to tell him to shove it - that's almost 40 dollars more than I paid for the speaker! But I was caught between a rock and a hard place and fast running out of options. As Jean-Luc Picard might say - "Make it so!" Now the right side of my brain is outright laughing at me... At least the service was speedy - when I made these arrangements, it was late in the day Tuesday in Seattle. MBE picked the CF-4 up yesterday morning from the seller, packed it and shipped it out mid-afternoon yesterday. Expected delivery is next Wednesday, 6/29. Of course, I'm at the mercy of their packing, and UPS shipping. For $288 it better be substantially packed! Say a prayer for me, Argentina! If that sucker shows up in a bad way... The right side of my brain is gonna be roaring in laughter at me.

---------------- On 6/21/2005 9:49:41 AM bsafirebird1969 wrote: i can't belive a "dead " Hydrant .. what kinda town is that , anyways ... i'd be P.O.'d , in a big way ... like , what if it was your house ... ---------------- It's actually a common problem - the towns/cities are supposed to check them regularly, but sometimes they aren't diligent in their maintenance. They get rusted internally. Wet Stem hydrants are less prone to that problem, but wet stems can only be used in warm climates that rarely if ever freeze. It's easy to second guess - but things have a way of unraveling, especially if no senior personnel were on hand. Most trucks have an internal 1500 gallon tank - so the first pumper on scene could have at least got a couple 1 1/2" crosslays going (they don't use as much water as 2 1/2 either) and fought for a few minutes while backup units took care of the water issue. Worst case - set up the portable "pond" and start having trucks tank water into the scene. That's S.O.P. in rural areas where there's no municipal water in the first place.

---------------- On 6/14/2005 11:44:31 AM Frzninvt wrote: Nothing like a single CF-4 to use as a center I say! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=3276&item=5782128401&rd=1 ---------------- Ahhh yes, you will be mine! hehe! Even though this is local pickup in WA, I decided to buy it. I'm having Mailboxes Etc pick it up from the dealer, pack it, and then ship it out. It cost almost as much as the speaker, but it will be worth it. It's still less than I've seen KV-4s auction for. Besides, the CF-4 will make an ideal TV stand for my 35" set. Now all I need is a set of CF-4s/CF-3s for the rear surround. Lovers of tiny jewel cubes will ph33r my system.

---------------- On 6/15/2005 8:39:23 AM krispykoilz wrote: I've been watching the single CF-4 myself to use as a center for my Chorus II's. I have'nt noticed any threads discussing the use of the CF line being used as centers but I'm sure a CF-4 would kick a$$ on any system. Shipping for my Chorus II rears was around US $360.00 including insurance and packaging at a UPS store. Having them packaged there is the only way to go as far as I'm concerned because then there is no doubt about who is responsible should they arrive damaged. I'm not going to be bidding on the CF-4, I'm waiting for a pair of KG 3.5's I just bought to use as rears for my computer with KG 4.5's and a KV3 center but if I was I would definitely email the guy and see if he would be willing to take it to a UPS store. HTH ---------------- Krispy, I think you would definitely NOT want to mix and match Heritage Klipsch with "Alphabet Soup" Klipsch. The Academy is the proper center for Klipsch Heritage - or for that matter another Chorus if you can find one.

Thanks for the info. There's also a single CF-3 on Ebay - the CF-4 is in Washington, and "Local Pickup" Even if it wasn't, shipping cost from the Pacific NorthWest to me here on the East coast for a speaker that weighs ~110 lbs uncrated would be brutal.

---------------- On 5/12/2005 5:24:18 PM TBrennan wrote: "Depends what cables you use." Oh, that was rich! LOL! ---------------- And I'll bet all three speakers in question are better than the finest Bose "Jewel Cubes" even those with the much coveted "Nautilus Ports" too!!! Insert smilie

The definition of a 'subwoofer' would likely depend, for most users, on the type of main speakers that are being augmented. If your main speakers are flat to 40 hz, and have usuable response to 30hz, then you'd want your subwoofer to boost output below 30hz, rather than above 30hz. Otherwise, the subwoofer becomes simply a costly "tone control" - the listener could obtain the same boosted bass effect by rotating the bass control on the receiver/amplifier. That's why I haven't really used my RW-12 (it's been unplugged for months) because it doesn't really produce much deep bass beyond what my CF-4's can deliver. However, it was useful for movies and music with my smaller Pinnacle PN8+ which I ran before I got the CF-4s. I'd assume the Sub-12 has more output than an RW-12 or entry level SVS at 30 hz-100 hz - because the Sub-12 is designed to complement the SLX - a 9 lb. speaker that I sincerely doubt has any useful DB output below 100-120 hz. So the Sub-12 needs to carry the 30hz to 100 hz duties - whereas larger main speakers wouldn't need that augmentation, and the appropriate subwoofers would be designed to emphasize lower octaves of bass than the Sub-12. I've attached a frequency chart I made at home of my RW-12 with a Radio Shack sound meter compensated for low frequency errors. You'll notice that the output at 24-25 hz is actually a good 9-10 db higher than the output at 30hz. I'd wager the RW-12 has substantially higher output at 22-24 hz than the "sub-12", although the Sub 12 may indeed be a better tonal match for slimline or smallish main speakers/satellites.

The amps look to be about the same. However, based on published specs, the SVS has an 18% larger enclosure, weighs 20 lbs more, and is rated for - 3db at 20 hz, whereas the -3 db point with the Sub 12 is 24 hz. The Sub-12's response likely drops like a stone below 24 hz, whereas if the PB10 behaves like other SVS subs, it should have a more gently sloping response curve - and undoubtedly has useful bass responses down to 16-18 hz.

I have a "Kill-A-Watt" power consumption meter I obtained through work - I checked the RW-12's consumption. In standby mode, the subwoofer consumes a steady 15 watts. That's not a lot, BUT,it's a continuous, 24-7 power draw. It makes no difference whether the amp is in "standby" or on - the consumption stays at 15 watts. 15 x 24 x 365 = 131,400 watt hours consumption annually - or 131.4 kilowatt-hours. Here in NYS, we're paying about 12 cents a kilowatt hour with taxes, so that works out to nearly 16 dollars in annual electric consumption. I dunno, that seems like a lot to me and somewhat wasteful - I was surprised it was so high - I expected maybe 2 or 3 watts. My 50 watt/ch home theater amp, in standby, uses less than 1/2 watt, or 30 times less than the Klipsch subwoofer.

The American-manufactured RW-12 was superior to the 15" "Best Buy" line Klipsch subwoofer. I've no doubts that is superior to this "Sub 12" or whatever. There is NO way that a subwoofer with a smaller amplifier, less expensive driver, and smaller enclosure is going to exceed the performance of a larger subwoofer, especially when manufactured by the SAME company. Anyone who claims otherwise has a sub-par level of cognitive ability, whatever optimistic specs are published. This "smaller is better" horsepuckey should be the provenance of Bose, NOT Klipsch. I was afraid we'd start moving in this direction, and evidently we are. But hey, you can fit MORE "Sub-12"s into a standard Container ship box than an RW-12, so it must be better, right?

uhm, I doubt a subwoofer in the Synergy line is going equal, let alone exceed, the performance of a Reference subwoofer. Checking the specs - RW-12 has a more powerful amp, bigger enclosure, 20% heavier, and a better reference series driver. Especially with subs, Size Does Matter! Also, I didn't see the all important inspected/tested in Hope, Ark. sticker. Unless your budget forces you to consider only Synergy, it's certainly worth auditioning the next tier or two upwards.

Ok, read this horror story over at Audio Karma - the little carpet crawler went right for the man's poor ADS subwoofer itself!!! http://audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=38067 Scratching isn't the ONLY problem one can encounter with cats - here's ANOTHER infamous cat/speaker horror story! http://www.quentecafe.com/index.asp?id=106#blogPos106 There's a lot of others - just do a search of the Klipsch forums using the seemingly innocuous word "cat" - you'll find many references to grills shredded, expensive interconnects destroyed, and other problems all relating to cats. Remember one word - "Declaw"

If you like what you heard, Larry, I highly recommend his album "A Love Song" - it was Percy's debut as a bandleader (and sadly, his last effort) If I want to play a recording that makes my system shine, this is the one. Andy Collins, the producer, made this as a 'labor of love' and it shows.

Allan, when you get a chance, let us know how the concert was. I hope there was a nice tribute to Percy - he's one of the few artists who, after I read the liner notes for his album, I really felt I'd like to meet. He sounded like a quality man, and truly, as you say, a irreplacable national treasure. I'm listening to his album while I write this. God bless, Percy.

That is horrible news, Allan. I picked up my first and only Percy Heath cd late last summer - "A Love Song" from 2003. It's incredibly musical, and a wonderful recording. One of my favorite jazz albums.

Holy moley, Tom! What on earth happened?? Did he forget that the road ended??? That guy hit HARD - it looks like it bent the front winch bracket down FLAT (those are thick and strong!) I don't see if he had transom straps on there - I would think they'd be dangling even if they broke. Boaters should NEVER trailer without transom tie downs - those thick nylon straps probably would have prevented the boat from coming loose.

I'm sorry about the loss. What kind of dog? I know that, despite their great size, Newfie's will likely wag their tail at burglars. And also, don't get complacent - Not trying to scare you, but the burglars may well be back. If it's one or two men, they can only grab so much at one time. Because they took certain items doesn't mean they didn't make a mental inventory of the rest of the house's contents. Best of luck

---------------- On 4/24/2005 3:51:39 PM atomicskiier01 wrote: There is no dog right now. We both know that we won't be around enough to have a dog. ---------------- A male dog would probably lift his leg and relieve himself on Bose products. Rocky the Rottweiler sez - "I got yer 'Lifestyle' right here for ya"

---------------- On 4/23/2005 11:15:37 AM dragonfyr wrote: I've always had cats and I have never seen one in ANY way interested in the exterior of a grill-less speaker, let alone wires(although I can see the potential for them to use a grill for a scratching post if a better alternative isn't available...) ---------------- Man, you're friggin lucky. Years ago, I had a pair of Optimus speakers that I preferred to run with grills off. I came home to find the tweeter or midrange(can't remember which now) totally shredded by one of the cats. I was so mad I thought my head was gonna explode - It was the speaker closest to the scratching post too! So I decided that for my own sanity I ponied up had the ^*&% cat declawed. It was either that, or he was literally gonna "say hello to my little friend!!!!"