mikebse2a3
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Posts posted by mikebse2a3
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The Bill Whitlock article that @babadono posted is a great source for information.
I also wanted to post 3 papers by RANE that helps to understand the issues and possible cable wiring methods that might help when going from Balanced and Unbalanced interfaces. It should be noted that High Quality Isolation Transformers (Preferably “INPUT” type being best when possible) like the ISO-MAX by Jensen for example are the best solutions but cable wiring methods “might” meet your requirements especially if cost is a consideration.
Sound_System_Interconnection.pdf
Grounding_&_Shielding_of_Audio_Devices.pdf
balanced-unbalanced_revised.pdf
miketn
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3 hours ago, Westerml said:
Thanks everyone.
Monoprice cables I am using https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=4776
Will not lift ground on XILICA.
I did try tying the negative and shield together at XILICA as recommended by XILICA and as shown below. It did not solve the issue.
Update: I am now using balanced connections to high end amp. Quiet, no noise obviously. The ground noise still persists in the low end which is still single-ended configuration. So same problem.
Got it on the Jensen. Not cheap and currently back ordered at PE.
Mike
Please try the following wiring instructions and let me know if this remedies the noise.-MarkXilica®
Global Customer Relations
If you haven’t already then you might try leaving the cable configured as xilica suggested and then run a single separate wire between the xilica and unbalanced amplifier’s chassis and see if that helps.
Definitely plug the xilica and amplifiers into the same AC Outlet Circuit.
What model is the single ended amplifier your using…?
What model is your pre-amp…? And about where are you able to set the Volume Control for normal listening levels…?
miketn
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I believe your thinking of the sound from the passive radiator/port as directional but at the frequencies the passive radiator/port are producing the wavelengths are so large that the polars are effectively omnidirectional.
miketn
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3 hours ago, Shakeydeal said:
The Khozmo attenuators are very good. I have owned two preamps that use them. Current one:
Very Nice..!!! How do you have yours configured..?
miketn
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@Coytee Thanks for the kind words.
miketn 🙂
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FYI……I have found this to be an excellent CD to assist in optimizing the loudspeaker/room setup and to help guide in the use/placement of acoustical treatments. The Individual Instrument Test, Pink Noise test, Spot Frequency and Frequency Sweep Test are very helpful in my experiences along with the LEDR test as well. You may be able to do a lot of the test with other similar recordings or signal generating methods you may have. I wish this disc had an Upright Bass recording as well as the Bass Guitar recording but I have other recordings that have excellent Upright Bass recordings when needed. The Imaging from this Disc recording are excellent for judging Soundstage/Imaging of the System/Setup as well.
System Solution Booklet_web_ENG.pdf
System Solution Recording Photos_web.pdf
miketn
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45 minutes ago, babadono said:
the imaging is, I hate to use the superlative, superb. But maybe I just have never had a really well set up system. The room is getting quieter and quieter as more treatments are installed of course and is starting to get spooky and non echoic.
That’s Great…👍🙂
I like to use recordings with solo Acoustic Double Bass and solo Drum recordings and Male Vocals to gauge the region in the 20Hz - 300Hz region for accuracy, clarity/detail and image realism/focus. This helps to know when I have the SBIR and Room Modes optimized because the imaging accuracy/focus along with clarity/detail of the instruments and vocals will have very high degree of realism. The Speakers will simply disappear and seem to be silent while a 3-dimensional space is created with good recordings.
1 hour ago, babadono said:The room is getting quieter and quieter as more treatments are installed of course and is starting to get spooky and non echoic. I found that one of my biggest problems was the stairwell to the up stairs. If I close the basement door it pretty much stops that echo chamber from interfering with the room. But I don't think I would have ever discovered that if I did not start treating the room because it was so echoic.
Absolutely that has always been my experience as well…. When you start cleaning up some of the room’s acoustical issues some other acoustical problems will start to reveal themselves because they were being masked by the previous issues. It’s absolutely a process that often requires some trial and error discovery testing.
1 hour ago, babadono said:To my way of thinking artificial reverb and/or other effects can always be added. I know purists would say no way to that but I'm not in that camp. After all we only hear what some recording engineer thought we should.
In my 2-channel listening room my goal is to have a live open spacious enveloping feeling (think larger space than the actual room size) but without echoes/reverb unless of course its in the recording.
1 hour ago, babadono said:What are you getting at viv a vis the high freq. beaming?
It’s an indicator especially with horn systems like Klipsch that the treatments are absorbing the higher frequencies to early in time leading to an anechoic like effect in the high frequencies. When this is balanced right the horns should not feel like they are beaming and you will begin to experience a completely natural enveloping spacious effect from the room which benefits 2-channel listening greatly.
miketn
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On 1/10/2023 at 4:34 AM, OO1 said:
For the Echo in the room , 2 wooden, insulated platforms or risers for the Jubes can help to dampen and decouple the bass section from the floor .
Can’t imagine how that would be a solution for an Echo…miketn
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@babadono Looks really nice…!!!!
How is the imaging…?
How does the vocals from recordings sound..?
How does your and others peoples voices sound to you when you’re in your listening location...?
Does the room sound natural and comfortable to have conversations in without seeming over damped (kind of like a movie theater can sound)..?
Do any of the higher frequencies feel like they are beaming at your ears on some recordings..?
miketn
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2 hours ago, diamonddelts said:
I am not interested in differences in the lower frequencies since I will always use horn loaded subs.
The Celestion Axi2050 Driver along with Roy’s “Extended Phase Plug” combined with the K402 is just one aspect of the Heritage Jubilee and seems to get a lot of the attention/interest while the Heritage Jubilee LF Horn seems to only be noticed for its extension down to 18Hz and while that is groundbreaking in itself but it is just one aspect of the design and I believe what’s not being realized is the total performance of the LF Horn throughout the 18Hz - 320Hz frequency spectrum. The lack of distortion, clarity and level of natural and realistic reproduction of the fundamental of almost all instruments and vocals is something that I believe anyone will experience within just a few minutes of listening to quality recordings. The Heritage Jubilee LF has simply taken the best of the Underground Jubilee LF and improved upon every aspect of performance to bring us another step closer to reality IMHO.
It seems to me that many listeners simply don’t understand the gravity of importance in how the frequencies of 18Hz - 300Hz is reproduced by the loudspeakers and the “loudspeakers interaction” with the typical home listening room’s dimensions and boundaries in the 18Hz - 300Hz frequency region is what IMHO has to be the largest obstacle to high quality realistic sound reproduction. The Loudspeaker/Room Setup in the region of 20Hz - 300Hz in my experience will make or break the sound of your systems reproduction and unfortunately the most challenging for many listeners to achieve.
For anyone interested here is an “interactive chart” that shows in part the importance of getting this 18Hz -300Hz part of the spectrum is for the Fundamentals of almost all instruments and vocals to be reproduced accurately.
miketn
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1 hour ago, diamonddelts said:
Have you heard the 535 Jubilee? Mine has the K-691 on the 410 horns and KT-1133-HP on the 402 horns.
Just trying to get a better idea of the comparison
Yes I’ve heard the 3-way Jubilee and it is excellent and rivals the Underground Jubilee 2-way with K402/TAD4002..👍
miketn
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4 hours ago, diamonddelts said:
If I keep the current 535 Jubilee and change the drivers, I could afford my dream Macintosh 1K monoblocks. If not, I go with the Heritage Jubilees and a used Crown Itech amp. Ah decisions, decisions.
If that was my options I know without a doubt I would choose the Heritage Jubilee based on my experiences.
miketn
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31 minutes ago, oldtimer said:
Nothing like tobacco to join the rest of them...we all pick our own poisons though. Except the ones afraid of living.
Mine is Gravy and Biscuits with Country Ham….. 😛
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35 minutes ago, Dr Morbius said:
It’s been 2 years, anybody ever find out what the weight is? I’m looking at Pyle soundproofing risers for my Cornwalls on Amazon and they are rated up to 100 lbs.
Spec sheet shows weight: 95.76 lbs
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Awesome achievement…!!! Thanks to everyone who played a part in this project 👍🙂
miketn
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@Flevoman Thanks for the pictures and your room/space is beautiful…!!!
The pictures really help me to understand your situation and some of the acoustic nature of your setup/room that you are working with. It seems you have explored all the options of loudspeaker and listener locations and reached the best configuration for your situation.
I’m curious if you tried the 4-ohm tap of your amplifier and what you experienced if so?
As far as any other options (not in any order of priority) that come to my mind would be:
(1) Different Amplifiers to explore any better synergy with the Cornwall lV as used in your unique situation.
(2) Integration of a Subwoofer(s) to give more control of the LF Response in your space which would allow Bass Level and Tonal Balance adjustments to your system.
(3) I’ll also mention some form of EQ adjustments in the system which I have available for example in my McIntosh C50 preamplifier can be of value not only for certain room/setup situations but also for the dramatically variable Recordings that we live with continuously in the real world.
Definitely keep us updated as I have found this very interesting as you explore your options.
miketn 🙂
Example of an excellent recording program equalizer IMHO
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52 minutes ago, Flevoman said:
Can I try it also on the 4ohm tab without damaging anything?
Maybe in the future I will also go for a SS amp next to my tube amp.
And no, it is not a PP system.
It is in class A..
I forgot how this system is called its not SET and not PP.
Maybe someone else know how this type of amp system is called?
The review assumes PP design and I own a Cary CAD 2A3i PP amplifier rated at about the same wattage. I doubt a Parallel SE 2A3 amplifier could produce 13 watts but I stand to be corrected.
I see no reason why you shouldn’t be able to try the 4 ohm tap since the Cornwall lV dips to 4 ohms in the bass region. I believe you will find the tonal balance will shift somewhat toward the bass but you might have a little less maximum volume.
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17 minutes ago, Flevoman said:
If not, I keep what I have now and will probably upgrade in the near future my tubeamp.
The Melody 2A3 Amp looks very nice…!
Do you have the Cornwalls on the 4 ohm tap..? This would probably give you a better match in the low frequencies with the Cornwalls.
If the dealer will let you try other amplifiers I would definitely try other options with more power either in Tube or solid state versions.
miketn
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@Flevoman I will add depending on any of your restrictions as far as Cornwall lV locations and also taking in consideration your room size the addition of 1 or 2 quality subwoofers might be a good solution in your situation.
miketn
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@Flevoman Have you tried moving the speakers closer together to see if you can find a (coupling between the speakers) that might bring out a more favorable bass and mid bass response in your room/setup…?
You definitely have a large space and I assume you want to keep the loudspeakers on the 12M wall otherwise it might be worth trying the loudspeakers on the 5.3M wall as another option to bring them closer to the sidewall/corner boundaries which might give you more bass level.
miketn
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14 hours ago, mikebse2a3 said:
We might could help more if you care to provide us with pictures of your setup/room otherwise its like we are working in the blind and deaf as well as we are not able to hear what you experience while we are giving our recommendations… 😄
miketn
@Flevoman Pictures would provide us with much more information about what you are working with and then we might be able to offer better ideas/suggestions for you.
I understand some people might prefer not to share pictures for various reasons and thats OK but I’m not sure how to try to help you more without more details that pictures would provide us.
I do hope you reach your goals for improvement.
miketn🙂
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On 12/30/2022 at 4:13 PM, Flevoman said:
Good day,
I've owned the CW4 for a few months now, I think they sound very nice, but I'm still looking for things to improve. For example, I would like to see the placement of the voices and instruments a little better. I now find the placement quite vague, and the sound seems to come more from the speakers instead of a holographic image that is placed between the speakers. I remember the Heresy 2 did this very well again.
This description gives strong indications that you have strong early reflections which indicate poor speaker locations and possibly listener location issues as well. If you have any large cabinets or furniture between the loudspeakers look for those to be causing you issues.
On 12/30/2022 at 4:13 PM, Flevoman said:The current placement/listening position is somewhat like an isosceles triangle. Speakers are 3.5 meters apart (measured from the center of the speaker), and listening position is also 3.5 meters from the speakers. I towed in the speakers so that they look almost straight at me. Point of intersection is slightly behind the ears. Speakers are pressed tightly against the plinth (2 cm from the wall)
What are your rooms length, width and height dimensions …?
On 12/30/2022 at 5:11 PM, Flevoman said:The reason I placed them against the wall is that the CW-4 lacked bass in the beginning.
I red somewhere that placing against the wall will increase the bass.
Placing against a wall will increase bass but can also lead to increased modal issues as well as potential issues with a smooth balanced response in the 20Hz - 300Hz region so distances from boundaries needs to balance the bass extension along with the even more important frequency response smoothness in the 20Hz - 300Hz region which is the foundation and contains vital fundamentals of most all instruments and vocals.
Even if you can’t leave the speakers located out into the room (several feet from boundaries if necessary to start with) it is well worth placing them there as an experiment until you get good imaging with a natural tonal balance and vocals that sound very realistic. You will know when you are getting close to these goals when the speakers on good stereo recordings totally disappear as the sound sources and actually appear to be silent within the soundstage. Once you achieve reasonably good imaging and soundstage then you can start moving the speakers closer to the boundaries while trying to maintain the imaging and tonal balance.
When you get the smoothest response in the 20Hz - 300Hz region by proper loudspeaker distance to boundary placements required by your room dimensions and acoustical properties it can be surprising at times that you have the extended bass you originally thought would be lost if the loudspeaker is not against a boundary.
We might could help more if you care to provide us with pictures of your setup/room otherwise its like we are working in the blind and deaf as well as we are not able to hear what you experience while we are giving our recommendations… 😄
miketn
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XILICA Ground Noise Issue
in Technical/Restorations
Posted
@babadono great job…!!!
I bought the DBX 4BX when it first came out and found that it helped on almost all recordings except for the very best examples and even on them the Impact Restoration especially on drums and such added much to the realism I experienced.
miketn 👍