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mas.. First off I know you are bieng sarcastic......the wrecks are horrible. TVG and Deutsche bahn are having this battle for some time now. The fastest I have been in a German train was 310 km/h (193mph), normal crusing speed for the ICE-2 is 250 km/h (155 mph). 1998 we had a bad derailment in Eschede and it was big in the news here over 100 killed due to a "wheel" falling into it's 2 singular components and smashed against a bridge, in the past the wheels were made of 2 differents parts now they are bieng forged from one piece of metal. At the speed they were traveling it looked like a child threw away their toy train, except the toy train weighed several tons. Dr. Who... They have been working on a magnetic system (Transrapid) for some years that would make the trains even faster but is very costly. It only needs 5 km (3 miles) to reach 300 km/h (186 mph) that is 5 sections weighing over 317 tons and reaches speeds also > 500 km/h. We have one here and unfortunately it also had a wreck a few months back, rammed into the back of a utility wagon checking the lines. They also built one in china. Anyone interested can go to www.transrapid.de also in english. I think this could be what you mean. When will we learn that some things do not have to be higher, faster, better? As some point in time we will erradicate our own existance "just because we can in theory". Randy

So I have not updated in a while and thought I would give a shout. I went to the local Hi-Fi dealer yesterday to take a look at the Rotel, look purdy, sound good, price.......... Question to the gents in the good ol' USA, The new Rotel Pre (Forget the number but 7.1 setup with the screen in the front I think newest model) and a 5 channel Amp is running about 6500 euro (about $8685) is this normal? We also talked a bit about setups and so forth and I mentioned Emotiva, he never heard of them and asked at the price they are asking if it is "China junk" because at that price it cant be too good. I for one though am still communicating with Emotiva concening Warantie and so forth, I will have to pay import fees and VAT if I import it here, even if it is a gift. That means about a 35% mark up, but still cheaper as the "other" good stuff here. After extra morgage payment, new brakes for the Audi and other unexpected bills this month my savings for the combo is lower than nil.[:'(] So this just pushed my time plan back about 3 months. Just wanted to rant and get this off my chest, there is nothing worse than seeing your goal and then getting it pushed back another 100 yards. Enough crying and thanks for your support!!! Randy

The F-3's have no cover but the surround and center have covers. It just fits better into the visual effect we want to have in the room. OK honestly the wife likes them better that way or I would probably have them all off!!! []

I think you would have to make a type of "Oscar" for this thread. Best rock, Best blues, best classic each type of music has their own "best" Some of my favorites in random order: Les Paul, Al Die Meola, Henndrix, Beck, SRV, Leo Kottke.............and the list would probably not stop........ Not to forget the old masters of Flamenco...... Randy

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yes it does and some states are giving it out on prescription for "madicinal" purposes. Some of the treatments are for Cancer, glaucoma and even aids. You don't even have to smoke it many people bake it into cookies or just let it brew as a tea. I think the reason for the ban came from the lobyists durning the prohabition, it was banned at the same time as booze. The reason the cannabis did not come back at the same time, if you believe rumors, is the cotton industry. Not only can you use it for "therapy", cannabis is a very powerful plant where everything can be used from leaf to seed (more nutritional values as soy) and it makes a stronger cloth than cotton. Not to mention that a truly phisical addiction is not as dangerous as prescription drugs or alcahol. oscarsear is 100% correct that the gov. has a wonderful tool at their disposal but do not get over the fairy tale that it is a start into a hardcore drug habit, but you can slam a 5th of vodka every evening and it is acceptable.....yeah right. The stimulator worked for me after I blew out my knee and had an OP but I have heard they dont work for every type of pain. Thanks for sharing this with us and good luck. The good thing is that you have seen a potential problem and snubed it out before it was a major problem!!! Randy yes I am N.O.R.M.L

This is cool!!! I am new to this forum but it is always funny how many questions i.e. "where to place down firing sub" goes into a discussion which drifts as to what type of cables to use and why. and in the end I am more confused than at the beginning [], you guys are great!!!!!! (meant funny and not, repeat not sarkastic) Randy

I myself am happy that Klipsch is making a quality speaker for a tight budget, it is like fishing though, once they have you on the hook you will be upgrading to another Klipsch product at some point in the future. Amy Is the quality control bieng reguarly monitored by Klipsch USA? If so we should be getting the same quality standard!!! Still cant wait to win the lottery, buy a house and fill a brand spanking new HT room with the TXH setup!! (one must dream) Randy

[][] No it is a very factual statement you stated your point without slamming (actually I thought one of the reference guys would be foaming at the mouth and screaming blastphemy []). All in all I think it comes down to how much can be spent for the best equipment at this point in time. And you are correct in the statement in Heritage > Reference > Synergy the higher you go in the chain the "better" the speaker and the more expensive it is. I beilieve this shows how happy everyone is with their own Klipsch product, whatever you decide it has to work for you and be in your budget. Have fun finding out what is best for you!!!!! Randy

Were there large differences in the different areas of the room, say almost inaudiable to wow, or would you have to listen very closely?? Huge differences. The closer you get to a wall or a corner, really changes the sound. Standing close to the center of the room will give another sound. An SPL meter will help you tell the differeneces if you find your ear is less tuned to such changes, but once you find a few positions in the room that sounds good and you consider possibilities, you will still have to move the sub to those positions and listen in the primary listening position. Once you have it close, start some calibration testing (I use what came with my Digital Video Essentials DVD, but I am sure there are other solutions) and see how the frequency response is affected. The flatter, the better. This takes some time to do properly. Do not be afraid to experiment. Every room and its furnishings are different. I started with 10Hz frequency steps to 80Hz and then 5Hz steps as I was more comfortable with its placement. As you get closer to 80Hz, pay more attention as this is where your main speakers will hopefully be picking up from. Then complete the rest of the frequency range. Dips are difficult to compensate for so if you have a choice, a hump is more tolerable, as long as its not outrageous. Remember, in a home theater there will be more than one listener, so after you are happy with the primary listening position, test other seating positions close by. There are no short cuts and it takes a LOT of time and testing. Equalization can work but it is best to start by placing the sub where it sounds best without it. EQ can be VERY tricky and I consider it a last resort and something that may be more beneficial as you gain experience. Just an anecdote. Most people have never heard a properly calibrated sound system. It may sound foreign to you. It may even sound flat,bright, or just down right bad. It is not easy to do because everyones tastes are different and that may be more influential than what is considered ideal. But, I suggest you try it first. Be patient. Give it some time to grow on you. Stick with music you are very familiar with, at first. Take LOTS of notes when you make changes. You may start to notice patterns in your notes. Some people are never happy with the set up and are continually making changes and testing. All of this can be helpful but I am sure you will get 95+% there if you have the patience. Thanks.......I think I will redo my "measurements" with a meter just to see what the difference is, it is great to get helpful info.

It is the horn and woofers, the F-3 have alu and the RF-82 Titanium for HF, and the RF-82 has cerametalic woofer. The sensitivity is only 1 db between the 2 of them though, just about all other paramaters are the same. The RF-82 are also built "sturdier" than the F-3 and the F-3 are made in China thus at a much lower price, this however does not mean it is a "cheap" speaker. I got into Klipsch for the same reason, good quality and a good price.

Since I don't have a SPL meter (yet) I did it by ear and picked the place where it sounded best but actually did not hear a difference that was worlds apart, just wanted to hear your oppinion. I disconnected the mains and just had bass heavy music running. Would using a SPL be more accurate? If so I'll have to get one soon, dont think they cost that much.

Things that blow up and natural disasters (wonders depending on how you look at it) another one that I like is X-Men 2 the tornado scene when they are flying with the 2 fighters following them.

That was a very noble move on your part, showing that you are a man of integrity. Though you could have waited awhile and basked in the limelight of fame.[ip][H]

Were there large differences in the different areas of the room, say almost inaudiable to wow, or would you have to listen very closely??

I agree oldbuckster, have it myself (was the first concert DVD that I bought) wonderful sound and it was great to see how they made that wonderful music!!!

Concerning the placement of the sub I was wondering if anyone else has heard of this method, I found it in a handbook for a pre-amp Place the sub at your listening position, walk around the room and find out exactly where you are hearing it the best. There is where you should place the sub. It seems to me this would be the fastest method as to finding out where it should go.

New update 2 new "possibilities" Harmon Kardon AVR745 (3000+ euro) Maranz SR9600 (3000+ euro) both very pricy but sound awesom, I could reference these with my speakers and ach du heilige geist, what a difference. Still looking for a way to get the Emotiva over here. Coustoms are the big problem though. The price/quality is keeping the Emotiva in the race. til next time............. Randy

I am probably going to get smoked for this next comment but as Johnny said in the fantastic 4 "Flame on" Yes the RF-83's are going to "smoke" the F-3's with the proper amp, but if you keep your amp and dish out over double (or more) for the RF-83's you won't hear much of a difference, then you buy another Amp and the games begin. OTOH my wife who wants nothing to do with the building of our stereo did a head to head comparison between the F-3's and RF-52's (I wanted the 52's because they were reference and in my price class but not my wifes [:$] I did not even look at the F-3 because of what I had seen on this forum) and we actually liked how the F-3's sounded better, and the RF-52' also costed more (about 150 euro a piece). It is your money but please keep your mind open that right now without upgrading anything you do not only have "fair" speakers by Klipsch standards they are a speaker with reference quality at a lower price, the forum is another thing but I am not going to open that can of worms. I have the F-3 (yes I have said it and will not hide my head in shame) and it was a very big difference to my last speakers, hell they are worlds apart. At the moment I am upgrading my reciever and could demo some at the apartment and bielieve it or not they sound even better with clean solid power. Hear the combinations that you can and if possible head to head with the speakers that you have now and I don't think you will be dissapointed with them. In the end it is your money and taste. Fire retardent suit on, let the games begin.[*-)] is this going to hurt????

Cooking playing farmer in our 500 square meter garden Renovating our Apartment one room at a time (only one per year please)

When looking for a printer take a good look at what the replacement inks costs at first. Just about all of the manufactures today are setting out spot prices for the printers and then you are getting burnt on consumables. The normal CKYK printers are good for all around printing but if you are doing mostly photos try to look for one with Light cyan and Light magenta, the skin tones come out much better due to the restriction point where the light to full colors are used. Also be aware that if you do use 3rd party inks the color gamut will be different due to the profiles used, this could cause color shifts (normally magenta or cyan) making the prints look crappy.

Spaaaaaaacceeeeeee Gooooooohst, man I have not seen him in years []

I agree with Tommyboy, go with the reciever upgrade first, IMO if you do the speaker upgrade you probably will not hear that much more of a difference to the F3's. With a good reciever behind them F3's are very good speakers and later you could still decide if you even need the reference speakers. But yet again it is only my oppinion.

Thanks Arky.... I realy need the encouragement at the moment. so close yet so far away...

Hi all I just checked the Klipsch dealers web sight here in germany and he does have the heratige line, even the 60th anaversary khorn, purdy speakers they are. I wish I could afford them. To the never ending story of the reciever I talked to my peeps in USA and we are working out a scheme as to how we could get the emotiva over here to me. The thing is I have to find a way to get around the VAT. All of that together would be to much. I am hoping I can figure something out within the next 2 months or so. The reviews I have read here and elswhere has now pushed the Emotiva to the 90% mark. I have sent 2 mails to tech. support and both times Lonnie Vaughn responded very fast, it seems that they still care about coustomers there. I will however keep looking for other deals and see if I can find something with the same quality and price. Till next post Randy