djk

Hey Klipschguy, a K33E only has a 2" coil behind the 4.5" dustcap.Same as yours.Take an ohm meter to yours.I bet they measure 4 ohms too.Two ways to kill a woofer A) overheat the coil.An AGC3 fuse will take care of that. B)overexcursion.Limit yourself to a 200 watt amp maximum and use a 30hz high pass filter with a Q of one.I have never seen a blown Klipsch midrange.I have had to repair a couple of the K52,57 mids due to a bad leadout wire.Tweeters burn due to clipping.An automotive type #561 lamp in series will cure that.

>>First, a MC2200 does not have meters!!!!!!<< Yeah Bill,you're right.I went back and edited it to read MC2205.I guess the point was that a 1A fuse can pass 300W peaks without blowing.BTW the fuse would blow instantly if you turned off the powerguard.I really feel that the lightbulb is the answer for people that like to play it loud every now and then.Klipsch had such a problem with their KG tweeter diaphragms blowing that they started putting .9A self resetting fuses (Raychem PolySwitches) in some of their models.These are too slow/too big to work 100% of the time so I resorted to the 561 lightbulb trick.I did this back when the diaphragms were $4 each.Now that they are $40 a pair.....>>BTW-- Does anyone know of an equipment (stereo) rack, ya know the kind that's only 19" wide on the inside and all your stuff can just bolt into some mounted angle-irons on the component's rack ears? I'd like to have one that is furniture grade, not industrial looking, on casters and 22" deep or more. << Just buy the rack rails from Mid Atlantic and bolt them into a furniture rack.18 space rails (31.5") are only $20 a pair.

I'm sure mdeneen means well but he isn't helping you.We already determined that there was nothing wrong with your amp.We did determine that you had a bad volume control.Measuring channel balance with the volume control wide open is pointless. Unless you listen that way.All that is important is the channel balance in the normal range that you listen in.Your measurements indicated a 2~2.5dB imbalance at the volume level you were measuring at.>>In stereo: 40Hz/ 1KHz Left .129v and .139v Right .172v and .188v In mono: Left .052v and .051v Right .054v and .054v<< The stereo mono switch is after the volume control and closed feeds the amp exactly the same signal.Obviously the amp is OK and the volume control doesn't track. Putting the resistors on was pointless.An amplifier is a constant voltage source.At levels below clipping it will keep the voltage the same no matter what you use as a load.It will measure the same voltage into 4,8,16,or an open circuit.>>FWIW, bulbs in your circuits add considerable series resistance << Oh really? Pray tell how much? Most lightbulbs exhibit cold to hot ratios of more than 20:1 That means it is like it isn't there unless you are clipping the amp.>>I think 3A fast acting would be my starting point. If this blows at what seems like lower volume than is possible with your speakers, try 5A.<< A 3A fuse offers litle or no protection.A 5A fuse would never blow.A Klipschorn has a 5.5 ohm minimum impedance ~250hz.I used to demonstrate how low the average power was in music by wiring a 1A fuse inline with a 200 watt MC2205 and turning up the volume until the meters were banging against the end stop and the red powerguard light came on.The fuse held.How big of a fuse do you think he needs? Sell me the DBX if you are just going to let it collect dust.

>>According to his text, the "L22 , C22 produce a rise at approximately 5,500 Hz." (PWK, page 9/10, lines 27 & 28). He has selected these LC values to increase output at 5,500 Hz in the mid circuit before they begin to roll off the highs. Likewise, the monster 128uF cap across the woofer terminals increases output at 350 Hz (page 9/10, line 25). Crossover tweekers may want to experiment with a smaller value for the C22 capacitor (maybe 1uF - 2uF) to minimize the resonance at 5,500 Hz. Looking at the ALK design, I noticed he has chosen to use the L22/C22 combo before the autoformer in the squawker circuit. Don't know if this would make a difference.<< I wish people that don't know how to run resonance formulas on a calculator would not respond.If you would bother to run PWK's parts values you would see that he is dealing with the peak by filling in the dip below it.If you just decrease the cap value as you suggest you will increase the frequency of the peak right into the range you are complaining about.The >monster 128µF cap< across the woofer increases the response at 350hz to fill in the monster hole in the frequency response of a Klipschorn,Belle,and LaScala.That is why all the current versions of the afore mentioned models have this cap in their networks.As for >a new, super-efficient speaker designed to produce 108dB @ 1w/m)< that is a standard K33E woofer and that is how loud a Klipschorn is at 250hz.See the JAES article by PWK on the Jubilee last fall.It has acual frequency response graphs of both the Jubilee and the Klipschorn, not the advertising bs they hand out.Maybe you haven't read this post? posted 03-13-2001 07:44 AM >> Thanks to Al for the graphs.I recommend you try the 230µH + 4µF on the K55V along with the 6µF change on the tweeter.PWK designed this to lift the falling response of the K55V before slamming it off hard at 5Khz.Because of the non-coincidence of the mid-range and the tweeter there are a series of dips and peaks on either side of the crossover point.Cutting the midrange off with a steep filter like this will reduce both the frequency spread and amplitude of these peaks.Just changing the second capacitor in the tweeter circuit does improve the sound but the full effect won't be there until you help the mid-range clean up its act too.As far as the 128µF cap in parallel with the woofer goes I have seen values from 100~140µF used.I have also used 68µF in parallel with the woofer and a Zobel of 6 ohms in series with 27µF and this combination also wired in parallel with the woofer.This last combination is the most benign for an amp to drive.The 140µF is the worst.Anybody having a real POS amp should use the 68µF with the 6 ohm + 27µF Zobel.Good quality electrolitic caps are ok for the woofer circuit although Klipsch uses high quality film types here.The 4µF in parallel with the midrange must be a very high quality film type.It should be pointed out that it is very easy to try the different caps on the woofer.Put a card table in front of one speaker at a good listening distance.Run a suitable length of zip cord from the woofer terminals out to the table.Wire one of the 27µF caps in series with the 6 ohm resistor.Set the other 6 ohm resistor to the side.Buss together one end of both 68µF caps, the second 27µF cap, and one end of the Zobel.With a bunch of clip leads from Radio Shack you can try both 68µF in parallel (136µF),a 68µF and a 27µF in parallel(95µF),and a 68µF by itself and with the Zobel.Keep the volume low but loud enough to hear what is going on.Whatever sounds best is best.This is a $10 experiment and the worst thing that could happen would be to find you liked the 136µF value the best and found you had to order another pair of 68µF caps.Otherwise you have enough parts to make two of every combo that you tried.<<In case this is not clear I will reiterate: the peaks and dips are greater than seen from the drivers themselves because of driver spacing.

Unfortunately you probably have a bad volume control.With Carver out of business it will be difficult to find another.

>>Here is a bad Polaroid photo of my Cornwall's K33P. The model number is punched onto the Klipsch label and is illegible.<< That is a K33 made by CTS in the 8th week of 1972.It is functionally the same as the later Eminence K33 driver.The biggest change in the K33 was when they went to the felt dustcap instead of the paper one.This vented the magnet and gave much better bass.The dustcaps cost about $1 each and five minutes with an Exacto knife and some glue will take care of that.I can make parts available if there is interest. In 1983 the walnut would be lumbercore.Poplar boards glued on edge crossbanded with birch ply with oak or walnut veneer.Changed to particleboard in the late 80's Cornwall II.

You need to repeat the 40hz/1Khz test with the tone controls set flat and any eq bypassed and loudness off.I think I know what it is and it is cheap to fix.

>>Here is a bad Polaroid photo of my Cornwall's K33P. The model number is punched onto the Klipsch label and is illegible.<< That is a K33 made by CTS in the 8th week of 1972.It is functionally the same as the later Eminence K33 driver.The biggest change in the K33 was when they went to the felt dustcap instead of the paper one.This vented the magnet and gave much better bass.The dustcaps cost about $1 each and five minutes with an Exacto knife and some glue will take care of that.I can make parts available if there is interest.

It is almost impossible to burn up a Klipsch midrange driver.If you are worried about it there are a couple of things you could do. A) 1156 lightbulb RXE090 Raychem PolySwitch from DigiKey C) 2.7 ohm 5 watt resistor in series with 1156 lightbulb with a RXE090 in parallel with this combo.The light bulb by itself works pretty good.The PolySwitch is basically a circuit breaker and the sound stops when tripped.If you parallel the PolySwitch with the resistor in series with the lightbulb the lightbulb is essentially shorted out by the PolySwitch under normal circumstances.Under a trip the PolySwitch opens up and the lightbulb is now in the circuit.The resistor is needed to make sure all the power goes through the PolySwitch during normal operation.The .126V/.160V is a 2dB difference.It is probably the tracking of the volume control.To rule out a real problem you should measure the balance at 40hz and again at 1Khz.If the 2dB is constant with frequency then I would just set the balance control and forget it.Cheap pots just don't track much better than this.If there is a big difference at 40hz there is something wrong with the amp and I can tell you how to fix it.

Most rooms have an 8' ceiling height.This produces 70hz standing waves.ASC tube traps are popular but not really narrow band enough to deal with the problem.RPG, the people that make the really good diffusors, sell a tuned membrane absorber that comes tuned for 70hz but may be custom ordered for different frequencies. http://www.rpginc.com/products/modexcorner/index.htm Linn has always advocated single speaker demonstrations because of unpredictable speaker/room interactions with un-powered speakers.An old style Klipsch Heresy is tuned to ~70hz.Reviews of the RPG Modex Corner in various recording magazines indicate that they are very effective at controlling the room problems caused by the 8' ceiling height.Here is the really twisted part: a used pair of Klipsch Heresy cost less than a pair of RPG Modex Corner.Just take out the mid and hf parts and send them to me thank you

>>djk from my hometown. I think I know who you are (at least the D&K initials are familiar). I believe I have seen (and heard) a pair of hybrid subs of your..suggestion, that a friend built. Dimensions are about 2 feet, by 1 1/2 feet by 3 feet. Three ports. Two 12" drivers (that my friend changed to 15" drivers..and also did some +/- stuff with the drivers, all of which I feel was a mistake) mounted facing each other. Oops too many details already.<< Ha!Your friend is probably Brian B.He copied a pair of my push-pull slot loaded subs that were at Dave L's house.Those were for EV DL15Ws not the K43s he bought.All he had to do was ask and I would have given him the correct set of plans.Flipping one driver around is a hugh mistake.Unless you like a 6dB peak at 160hz.>> He is driving the subs with one Adcom (535??) 200wpc AMP and has four B&W 602s (two per channel) handling the upper end driven by another ADcom 200 wpc amp. These subs worked very well with the B&Ws and also worked well when they were used with my Heresy's (although there was only one Adcom at that time and the Heresy's were being driven by my now semi-retired NAD 35wpc amp). Anyhoo..Impressive work. Not sure how I would combine heresy horns with these though.<< That sub design cannot be crossed higher than 250hz.Won't work with Heresy horns.The dual 12" design I was suggesting is more along the lines of a KLF30 on steroids.

Changing your E network (Heresy) to a B network (Cornwall) is just one 4µF cap and two connecions on the autoformer.Old style Cornwall woofers (K33E) are MSRP $100 each from Klipsch.For something better I can suggest a design with two 12" per cabinet that will use a B or E modified to B network and the K700/K55V, K77 Heresy mid and high frequency horns.At 8 cu ft, only slightly bigger than a Cornwall, it will go 1/3 oct lower in the bass.Adding an all pass delay network (time alignment) to the woofers results in a more coherent midrange than any of the large Klipsch.I originally used the now obsolete K22E woofers.The woofers I use now have the same size magnet as the K33E and have a rubber surround.They are made by the same company that made the 70's and 80's vintage K22,K33 woofers for Klipsch.I buy them from Parts Express # 295-120 II.

>>Does anyone know where I can get replacements cheap? None on ebay, and I dont want to pay a local dealer mucho $$$. Any alternatives maybe for a different brand of woofers or are these woofers "what makes the speaker" Help needed! << I am going to make myself very unpopular with most people here and recommend you buy four MCM part number 55-860 at $17.95 each.This is the Pioneer B20FU14-54F clear poly cone 8" woofer.The Thiel Small parameters are correct for the KG4.You don't mention the age of your KG4s.I am going to guess late 80's.For a while in the late 80's Klipsch had a problem with the K8K woofers.The coils had dry spots when wrapped and these would rattle on certain program material.Touch the cone and it would stop.Very noticable on piano. Klipsch no longer offers the original K8K and you would have to settle for the K3K at $80 each.MCM is at 800-543-4330.If they won't sell to you I have an account with them.

Go to an auto parts store and buy a pair of 561 dome light bulbs.Wire one in series with the hot lead of each tweeter.Don't bother with your class A question.It is meaningless.99% of solid state amps are class AB.The A part is usually 20mA or so of bias.Power is the square of current times impedance(.02*.02)*8=.0032W.If you were an engineer I would refer you to Douglas Self's site to read why class B amps have less distortion than class AB.

The parallel trap is only for K55V mids.E2 and B2 networks were used with the Hepner(later made by Klipsch) mid(K52,53,57,etc)and do not need the trap.

>>I tried this, by running three 2uF caps in parallel, and was not pleased with the result. It lost some liquidity over the 2uF version. Odd since it was supposed to "smooth".<< Thanks to Al for the graphs.I recommend you try the 230µH + 4µF on the K55V along with the 6µF change on the tweeter.PWK designed this to lift the falling response of the K55V before slamming it off hard at 5Khz.Because of the non-coincidence of the mid-range and the tweeter there are a series of dips and peaks on either side of the crossover point.Cutting the midrange off with a steep filter like this will reduce both the frequency spread and amplitude of these peaks.Just changing the second capacitor in the tweeter circuit does improve the sound but the full effect won't be there until you help the mid-range clean up its act too.As far as the 128µF cap in parallel with the woofer goes I have seen values from 100~140µF used.I have also used 68µF in parallel with the woofer and a Zobel of 6 ohms in series with 27µF and this combination also wired in parallel with the woofer.This last combination is the most benign for an amp to drive.The 140µF is the worst.Anybody having a real POS amp should use the 68µF with the 6 ohm + 27µF Zobel.Good quality electrolitic caps are ok for the woofer circuit although Klipsch uses high quality film types here.The 4µF in parallel with the midrange must be a very high quality film type.It should be pointed out that it is very easy to try the different caps on the woofer.Put a card table in front of one speaker at a good listening distance.Run a suitable length of zip cord from the woofer terminals out to the table.Wire one of the 27µF caps in series with the 6 ohm resistor.Set the other 6 ohm resistor to the side.Buss together one end of both 68µF caps, the second 27µF cap, and one end of the Zobel.With a bunch of clip leads from Radio Shack you can try both 68µF in parallel (136µF),a 68µF and a 27µF in parallel(95µF),and a 68µF by itself and with the Zobel.Keep the volume low but loud enough to hear what is going on.Whatever sounds best is best.This is a $10 experiment and the worst thing that could happen would be to find you liked the 136µF value the best and found you had to order another pair of 68µF caps.Otherwise you have enough parts to make two of every combo that you tried.

The DH1506 had an aluminum dome with a kapton surround.The DH2 is all one piece titanium.It does not sound very good crossed at 400hz with a low order crossover.EV has been playing around with the thickness of the titanium on the DH2 for some time now.First they tried the thicker stuff of the DH1 and then the thinner stuff of the DH3 and now they have gone to something in the middle.None of them sound good.The newest is the best and I would not crossover at less than 800hz.For something that spins on to the K400 that sounds better than an 1824 I would get a DH1506.If you can't find a DH1506 I would get an 1829.While the throat size is a poor match for the K400 the 1829 still sounds great.Leave the cap plug on the rear exit.With some network tweaking I have been able to get the 1829 to measure +/- 1dB to 6.3Khz.

Madisound is the best place to buy nework parts.They have the best choice of inductors period.Air core(three different wire gauges available), powdered iron, steel, laminated steel, Litz, copper foil.About the only thing they don't have is paper in oil caps.

When I had returns for Klipsch they had to be addressed:Klipsch, RR4 Oakhaven, Arkansas.I don't think the factory is actually in Hope.Look at a map.I see Bartlets Familiar Quotations has come out with a new edition with three from WJC.Any guesses? "I did not have sex with that woman", "I did not inhale", and of course "depends on what you mean by 'is' ".I feel like I need to have my soul steam cleaned.

>>The K-55-V was made be Atlas and modified for Klipsch.<<The Atlas driver was a paging horn driver and typically used on 100 hz horns.This required large diaphragm excursions.Using it for midrange only allowed Klipsch to reduce the clearance between the diaphragm and the phase plug and thus improve the midrange above 2Khz. >>The K-55-M was made by E-V especially for Klipsch. I was told by E-V that it may have been based on the 1824 or 1828, but was modified to meet Klipsch specs.<<The K55M is a copy of an Atlas design and does not resemble the 1824/1828/1829 in any substantial way.With the exception of the DH1012/DH1, EV compression drivers are of a convex dome construction.The main section of the K55V/K55M diaphragm is concave,similar to the construcion seen in JBL/Altec/and the EV exceptions noted.>> The K-400 Horn is an adaptation of a dsign Mr. Paul got out of another horn designer's trash can.<<The horn in question was a Heresy sized horn and deemed too expensive for the intended application by Jensen, the company that designed it.>> The K-500 and K-700 are shortened versions of the K-400. It was not intended to be a diffraction horn, though I guess it could have some of those properties. The T-35/T-35A/T-35B/K-77/K-77-M are known as diffraction horns and at lower frequencies they are said to behave that way. However in the band Klipsch uses them they are said to disperse like a normal exponential horn.<<The T35/K77 has 60* X 60* dispersion in the 16Khz octave.In the 8khz octave it will have better dispersion in the horizontal plane with the long axis of the tweeter mounted in the vertical plane,ie: rotated 90* from current build.This is not possible in most models.Flush mounting with the Klipsch Z-bracket improves the sound.My old K-horns had the T35 vertically mounted on a bracket in the mouth of the K5J wood and fiberglass radial horn.

I am going to make some comments about type B and type E networks in this space tomorrow.No time now.

On older models with the two screw terminal strip you can remove same and mount the NL4M over the old holes.The NL4M come in both a round and a square flange mount.The round one will cover up a larger existing hole.On newer speakers the NL4M can be mounted above or below the input cup and wired internally to the existing connections.This requires a hole about 7/8" to be cut.If you don't want to cut then use a short pig-tail to the connector outside the box.A 5/8" nut driver will torque the red and black posts down tight on the bare wire ends of the pig-tail.16ga wire is adequate for the 6" or so that you need here.This is mainly for people that need to be able to easily disconnect their speakers.If this does not describe you then the best connector is still no connector.

quote: Originally posted by KenB: djk, Did I miss something? I saw the PWK patent: Figure #5 showed a 0.23mH in series with the squawker +, and the cap was a 4uF (not a 2uf) to the common. -Ken (gad these UBB codes are a pain) Ken,you didn't miss anything,I did.The cap to be added is 4µF not 2µF.I should also point out that PWK also changed The Q of the tweeter network too.For those of you that have a AA network the tweeter signal goes through a series 2µF, a 245µH to ground, and a second series 2µF to the tweeter.Change the second 2µF to 6µF and the choke is close enough(existing 245µH vs the specified new value of 236µH).This mod makes the response in the 4~7Khz region smoother.Also note the addition of the 128µF cap in parallel with the woofer.On the K/B/LS this fills in a dip in the 250~400hz region.This is only for type AA networks.Type AK/AB/AL already have this part.

I would suggest trying what PWK says makes the K55V mate better with the K77, 230µH + 4µF. http://www.delphion.com/cgi-bin/viewpat.cmd/US04237340__

quote: Originally posted by DPonder: I see now. I can hear the difference in CD players from one to another. I'm not really concerned with improving my system with good interconnects and cables as I am in insuring there will be no signal loss, and that is my reason. Now quality is quality and a better B-plug is a better B-plug, I would just suggest using a hi-quality plugs. So you say at a pro music shop, as in musical instruments or audio? Pro music shop as in the kind that sell PA gear and a few guitars as opposed to a music store that sells pianos, organs, and rent band instruments.You are more likely to find Speakon connecors at the former rather than the latter.