StephenM

Here's a fairly comprehensive battery of measurements on the Empire. http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=50&mset=48 As far as how it compares to the RW-12D, there's not a great basis for comparison since nobody has really measured one under the same circumstances as the Empire there (ground plane/outdoors). However, from the measurements of the Empire, its a good subwoofer for the money, with gobs of output from 32Hz on up, and useable output in the teens. Based on its specs, a pair of RW-12D wouldn't be able to match the Empire's measured performance.

Sounds like a plan. Let us know what you think of it when all is said and done.

Indeed. Also add in a good power amp and an EQ to shape the response.

Looks like a meaty son of a gun for sure. Pricing is pretty impressive too, especially since they're US built.

I'd lean towards no. If its really only you (the consumate audiophile) and your wife and kids (who couldn't care less about even bass response) then it doesn't matter all that much; you optimize the response for your seat with EQ and if needed, some bass trapping, and you're good to go. If you plan on hosting parties of audiophiles at your home, then multiple subs smoothing the response helps. Of course, if you're hosting groups of audiophiles at your home, you may want something a little nicer than a RW-12D anyway. Well I own the cylinder counterpart, the PC12-NSD, so I had better like it []

It's supposed to be, but that's never stopped anyone from fudging it either. Edit: One reason why it's confusing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiele/Small

Depends: Do you want the benefits of dual subs, and are you willing to put in the effort to achieve those benefits? Otherwise, the SVS seems to make a compelling argument: it's measured to deliver true 20Hz performance whereas the RW-12D is specified to go down to 24Hz (although whether it can do it ground plane at 2 meters with significant output and low distortion is another story). The SVS should be able to match (if not slightly exceed) the output of a pair of RW-12Ds from 30Hz on down, although we have no idea what's happening with the RW-12Ds above this point. Above all else though, the SVS is a known quantity. There's shouldn't be any question what you're buying thanks to the review at Audioholics and Josh Ricci measuring the thing up and down, side to side, and even diagonally. It's a great sub for the money. Conversely, no one even seems to acknowledge that the RW-12D exists except when it goes on sale at Newegg.

Remember though, the calculator is giving you 1 way xmax (don't know if Ficar is giving 1 way xmax or not in their specs), so you're still talking about a cm of total travel for 4-18" woofers.

Depends. If you already own the RW-12Ds, I wouldn't exactly rush out to upgrade to a single PB12-NSD. If you plan to optimize the placement of the pair of subs, that can obviously make a worthwhile difference. If you just want to know which will net you the most dB based on the estimate that I gave previously using the max output spec of the RW-12Ds versus the PB12-NSD's measured output at 25Hz, then as noted above, the PB12-NSD can deliver 123dB @ 1 meter, 1/8th space, at 25Hz versus the RW-12D's spec of 116dB at 30Hz, 1 meter, 1/8th space. Adding 6dB for the second sub, you get 122dB, making it a wash. Of course, the PB12 does this with under 10% THD+N whereas we have no idea how the RW-12Ds are behaving.

Something else to demonstrate why you need more drivers for an IB: http://www.baudline.com/erik/bass/xmaxer.html As mentioned, the SVS PB13U has been measured to put out 105dB at 16Hz with a 13.5" driver, at 2 meters ground plane, equivilent to 1 meter anechoic. A single 13.5" driver in an IB installation would need a little over 42mm of one way Xmax to provide comparable dB. That's over three inches of peak to peak travel.

This is what the PC-13's boxy brother, the PB13 can do in 15Hz tune: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=55&mset=55 105dB @ 16Hz @ 2 meters ground plane is nothing to sneeze at by any means. Here's the Danley DTS-10 http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=4&mset=29 More output to be sure, but also more oddities in the measurements. Here's another (less costly than an Ultra) alternative, the Rythmik FV15HP with one port open: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=51&mset=49 104dB @ 16Hz @ 2 meters ground plane, again nothing to sneeze at.

Glad I can be of assistance! It depends. If you take the time to optimally set up and calibrate a pair or trio of subwoofers, I would expect you can achieve a more even response across a wider area than with one subwoofer, regardless of how good it is. However, things like bass trapping and room correction software (ie Audyssey) can help to even out response pretty well, even for a single sub. Of course, if you plan on stacking your subs to maximize output,or if you plan on just placing them where they're aesthetically pleasing, ie flanking the TV, then you're not going to be gaining much or anything in the way of smoothing. Of course, if you are interested in multiple subs AND you want a hard and deep hitting setup, you could also consider something like the SVS Legato.

Just as a quick addendum: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd/pb12-nsd-measurements The PB12-NSD, with max output of 105dB @ 25Hz @ 2 meters, ground plane (equating to 123dB @ 25Hz, 1 meter, 1/8th space) would actually appear to match the lower end output of your trio of subwoofers rather well.

I'm unaware of any objective measurements of the RSW-10d to give a great answer on this. However, per spec, a single RSW-10d has a maximum acoustic output of 114dB at 1 meter, in a 1/8th space (corner). If you were to stack the set of 3 (not necessarily the best way to set up multiple subs for other reasons, namely attempting to even out in room frequency response), you could achieve 123.5dB, again at 1 meter, in a 1/8th space, at 30Hz. Enter the SVS PB13U http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=55&mset=53 A singe PB13U has been measured to put out 113.5dB at 25Hz and 115.5dB at 31.5Hz at 2 meters, in half space (ground plane, or simply, outdoors with no nearby boundaries). Converting that to 1m, 1/8th space means adding 6dB for 2 meters to 1 meter, plus another 12dB for going from half space to eighth space (6dB per boundary). Going with the lower figure of 113.5dB @25Hz @ 2m, 1/2 space, you end up with 131.5dB @ 25Hz, 1 meter, 1/8th space. Based on this information, it would take approximately seven RSW-d10s to match the output of a single SVS PB13U at 30Hz.

How much more difficult is it really? With a sub you obtain from a retailer, you've still got to rebox it and return it to the store. With a sub you buy from an internet direct company, you contact the company to inform them you're returning it, you rebox it, and you lug it to FedEx or UPS. The only real drawback is that you'll probably have to pay return shipping, but then again you might be expected to pay a restocking fee at a dealer that sells halfway decent subwoofers. My advice: see if you can find any local dealers of higher end subs, Velodyne or the aforementioned Paradigm would be a good start. Also, depending on where you are, you might be able to find someone near you with an internet direct sub that you'd be interested in that would let you audition it. I also personally think it's worthwhile to look at 3rd party measurements, ala http://www.data-bass.com/systems to get some idea of what you're purchasing, and to make objective comparisons to other subs in that category.

FWIW, there is no comparison between a cheap computer "subwoofer" and even a modestly priced home theater subwoofer of decent quality. As such, I wouldn't draw too many conclusions until you do some listening. Understandable; fortunately, things like dynamic range compression and simply lowering the volume of the material can help with that. It's also useful to go outside with your system playing just to get an idea of how much you might be ticking off the neighborhood. Also, here's some reading material to get an idea of what is available in that price range: http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/lfm-1-ex-review http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/x-ref-12 The first two are fairly large, ported subwoofers with strong extension down to 20Hz. The third is a smaller sealed subwoofer. Also for kicks, a little pricier than your budget, but just for comparison purposes, a real mans sealed sub [] http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=46&mset=43

Depends. A properly designed ported subwoofer can offer increased efficiency and output capability over a sealed model with little or nothing in the way of audible side effects. The key words are of course "properly designed". However, to answer your original question requires a little information: How large is the room this subwoofer will play in (in cubic feet)? Is it sealed off from other spaces, or does it open into other rooms/halls? How much clean output do you desire? Is there a size limit?

I assume you came to this conclusion by comparing the SW115's 121dB @ 30Hz, 1/8th space at 1m with the Empire's measured ability to put out 105.8dB at 25Hz @ 1m, 1/2 space (equating to 123.8dB @ 25Hz @1m, 1/8th space). That certainly doesn't paint such a rosy picture for Klipsch, but it's not the only bad news. The Outlaw LFM 1-EX (and presumably the Hsu VTF 3.4) can lay down 107.3dB @ 25Hz, 2 meters, 1/2 space, equating to 125.3dB, 1 meter, 1/8th space, at only $649+shipping (and goes on sale regularly enough). The SVS PB12-NSD can put out 105dB @ 25Hz, 2 meters, 1/2 space, equating to 123dB, 1 meter, 1/8th space for $769 shipped to your door. Suffice it to say, there is no shortage of competition at the price point. Klipsch better have brought their A-game.

Threeve.

I'd qualify it as a fairly small room, presuming you don't have 20 foot ceilings or some such. 12x14 and 9 feet for the ceilings only equates to a hair over 1500 cubic feet. Per the review I linked on the PB12-NSD: Unless you're an absolute basshead, I'd expect the PC12-NSD to get the job done just fine.

IMO, as a PC12-NSD owner, I'd say it certainly has the potential to. A little more info could help with this regard: 1. How large is your room and how far will you sit from the subwoofer? Is the room sealed or open to other areas? 2. How loud do you like to listen? Also, here is a review of the boxy brother, the PB12-NSD http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/pb12-nsd

1. They post specs. 2. They're open about the fact that style is a vital part of their mission. 3. They actually do put out some audiophile grade speakers, and I don't think any of them feature the uber-cheap build quality that Bose is well known for. http://theaudiocritic.com/plog/index.php?op=ViewArticle&articleId=34&blogId=1 4. Their R&D has given the audiophile world ICEpower. Bose R&D has given us....??

I know Chris says that to people that ask why Audyssey sets their speakers to full range, but I'm not sure how applicable it is in this situation. From what I've read, Audyssey measures the 3dB down point and passes that to the receiver. If that point is below 40Hz, most receivers set the speakers to full range, which is discouraged by Audyssey. Otherwise though, one would presume most receivers round up to the nearest crossover value. I can't fathom why it would measure a -3dB of 40Hz and then the receiver set the XO to 150Hz. So far I don't hear any difference having set the XO back to 80Hz, but then again its only been a day and a half. Regardless though, it is rather irritating to know that Audyssey is effectively wasted on the main channels in the octave where most of its resources are spent, as Audyssey won't apply EQ below the 150Hz mark.

So on Saturday morning, I received an important upgrade to my listening room: a new sectional sofa and a chair to replace the craigslist specials furniture my wife and I had used since our apartment days. My basement is starting to actually come together nicely now, if you ignore the wonderful wood paneling and tile flooring from 1960. However, the downside is that it seems to have played havoc with Audyssey/my room acoustics. While the speakers haven't moved, nor really has the seating area (the upside to the tile floor is that I can be as anal retentive as I want), my mains are getting cut at 150Hz instead of being set full range or cut at 40Hz as they usually do. What's more entertaining is that Audyssey sets the wee RF-15s to 40Hz. I'm not entirely sure how the furniture swap cost me nearly a full 2 octaves on the RF-5s but they're set to 80Hz for now, as per my usual procedures. I'm a little annoyed with the results, but not really going to sweat it yet: the biggest change is yet to come since the basement will be remodeled (with significant changes) in spring. I reckon after that, if the results aren't what I'm looking for, I'll start fooling with placement more.

What makes you think current limiting is an issue when listening softly, especially with a reasonably meaty receiver like the SR7005? http://www.hometheater.com/content/marantz-sr7005-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures Into 7 channels, it can deliver 74.6 watts into an 8 ohm load with 0.1% distortion, all channels driven. Thats right about 3 amperes per channel, for a total of 21 amperes. Into 2 channels driven, the SR7005 was able to deliver 200 watts into a 4 ohm load with 0.1% distortion. That corresponds to 7 amperes per channel and a total of 14 amperes. These tests are also continuous, meaning transient peak ability may be higher yet. Suffice it to say, lack of current shouldn't be a significant issue until you're running near reference level, or you're trying to fill an auditorium.