rgdawsonco

I pulled out my Legend Series Owners Manual. They show a two channel system with the speakers narrower than to the home theater setup. I'd guess and say they show about 30 degrees of sparation for 2-channel audio, and about 60 degrees with theater and a center channel. As fo me I compromised at around 40 degrees. If it were me (and I have the same speakers), I would bring them into about 40 degrees of separation. I've done considerable experimentation with this setup and 60 degrees is too wide for me for two channnel music. 60 degrees woul be if you had speakers 12 feet apart and you sat 12 feet from them. You are a little closer, so you are a little more than 60 degrees. Thats a little wider than recommended for HT and more than 2x what is recommended for 2-channel audio. One beautiful thing about these speakers is that they image so well, you will perceive a wide soundstage anyway. Trust me, when a phone rings off screen, you will be getting up to answer it. All situations are a little different, so try it out, experiment. Also, if its just you in the room sitting in the sweet spot, I promise you it/everything will sound better without the center. And given your space situation, I might lose the center entirely. In your setup you are significantly closer to your center and that is not optimum. Optimum would be where you are the same distance from your fronts and center. Get you friend back over and try out some new placements.

I think rebuilding the crossovers helped...more than I expected. So after buying new mid diaphrams and tweeter diaphrams (titanium) and new crossover parts and trying all combinations of stuff, I ended up linking the original tweeter diaphrams better than the titanium. So I have new mid diaphrams and rebuilt crossovers original woofs and tweets. I think they sound like they are supposed to sound now. If you think your tweeters are lacking its probably your ears [] Hey happens to us all. (OK that was an attempt at a joke.) I'm sure I've lost alot of hearing above 7K, so I was surprised to be able to tell the difference between the tweeter diaphrams. For some reason the originals sounded more to my liking. The titaniums did seem to be "more".

Fish, I see you have RF-7's AND KLF-20's. Since I don't know anyone who has both, I have to ask...how do they compare?

Let us know the results of the shootout!

Dude, that's the nicest looking pair of Forte' II's I have ever seen. Well done.

Something sounds broke because Forte' II's have fine bass. I recently recovered a pair of Forte II's that I was the original owner of. When I got them back, I plugged 'em in and they sounded bad. Bass was lacking and they sounded harsh. I ordered new diaphrams and crossovers from Crites and started experimenting. (I was not sure what was wrong and I have slightly less patience than money) I took them apart and put them back together so many times I lost count. After I replaced the crossover caps, the bass reappeared. I'm still not sure how this works mathematically. P.S. I did not favor the titanium tweeter diaphrams, so those are sitting on the shelf. I did use the Crites mid range diaphrams. They sound nearly identical to the stck midrange diaphrams, but I think one of my original was damaged, 'cause it sounded harsher than the other three.

I have rock speakers in my back yard. I have the outdoorspeakerdepto.com RS790(HF9). They are 8" Rock Speakerss and go for about $280/pr. These speakers really surprised me with how great they sound. I mean really suprised. If you want to spend more they have a huge selection including larger ones and even subwoofer rocks. After about 5 years outside in the weather, rain and snow, one of them got filled with water, so I ordered another pair, but I made a mistake and ordered the RS670(HF7) which is about the same thing, but a smaller 6.5" rock speaker that goes for only $130/pr. A step below the RS790, but still impressive for the price. To me, outdoor sound is better coming from the ground, rather than the typical outdoor speakers mounted high on the back of the house.

First, that's a great price on the KLF-20s. I recently saw a pair go for $850 where I Ilive. Second. I'm another Legend lover. I have both Forte II's and KLF-20's and I have spent time comparing them on lots of music and in different rooms. The KLF-20s always win.

Well, what did she say?

Ha!, off raisin' kids, that's where. Now the kids are off to college and I am able to spend much more time with my audio hobby lately. This is where I go since (a) I'm just a Klipsch man (as my son says), ( I grew up in Arkansas and I like Arkies, © Speakers and the room are what matter most, everything else is mostly jewelry. Thanks for asking. :-)

According to the data here http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm#wiretable, 14AWG should be fine for distances up to 80ft for an 8ohm speaker. I think the rationale is something like if the overall resistance of the wire is less than 5% of the resistance of the speaker it it inaudible. I'm not trying to open a can o' worms, but you do not have to spend a fortune on wire. You could probably run 18AWG with no audible effect according to this table and rationale.

Frankly, I don't think the C-7 is a perfect match in a typical KLF-20 HT system. Here's why: Its a two-way speaker and sounds different than the KLF 20. Also, the tweeter is oriented as if the speaker is designed stand vertically, instead of horizontally - in other words it disperses 90 degrees vertically and 40 degrees horizontally, when laid on its side as is typical - the opposite of the KLF 20's. And, my C-7 sits below the screen and therefore about 1 foot or foot and a half below the tweeters in the 20's. While it is not perfect, its the best you can do short of canabalizing a klf-20 and creating a monster center. I keep the C-7 on when multiple people are in the room. But when it is just me sitting in the sweet spot, it is alot better to just turn it off. If you're sitting off axis a center helps keep movie dialog in the center, but if you are seated in the suite spot, you are better off without a center, specially with how well the 20's image there. I have not tried the C-7 with the Forte II's, but I suspect it is an even worse timbre match. I would guess that the Academy is indeed better with the Forte. As an aside, the C-7 sounds noticably better when oriented vertically, IMHO, but who is going to use it that way. It looks stupid.

Yes, I have a couple Denon AVR's that have Audessey. I will probably not ever get a receiver without it. I think it is fantastic. However... My Denon 3310 has MultiEQ, Dynamic Volume, and Dynamic EQ. MultiEQ is the equalizer part, Dynamic EQ is a volume dependent EQ adjustment based on human perception at different volume levels, and Dynamic Volume attemps to maintain volume consistency across program sources and within program material. I keep Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume turned off. While Dynamic EQ is great and probably the best implementation of its kind, I find I don't consistently like it on. It works great for low volume listening, which I rearely do. So I just keep it off. Dynamic volume adjusts the volume and the net result is that "0 dB" is adjusted to a much lower volume level than otherwise. This is no big deal since it is just an arbitrary number display change. Your not really losing anything. But you feel like you are. Anyway, I just keep it off. Now Multi EQ adjusts your speakers in combination with the rooms contribution to their response. This part of Audessey is fabulous. It has made a dramatic improvement in all the systems I have used it on. But I have gotten crappy measurements before by being careless in the automatic setup. For example, USE A TRIPOD. Turn off the furnace/AC. Turn off the dishwasher. Disable the garage door. Make sure everyone is quiet while it goes through its measurements, or better yet do it with the house empty. You get the idea.

I'm in Colorado Springs. I read through the threads. Wow. Now that's what I'm talking about. I think what I have in mind is very doable. My grill's and backs are fine. I have no dings or dents. So this looks doable. Just glueing on the veneer and finishing them. Thanks for the tips!

Not that I needed them, but I snatched another a pair of KLF-20's last weekend. I would say they are in "fair" condition finish-wise, which is why I got them for a good price. Sound-wise, excellent. I want to completely refinish them. I have zero experience refinishing stuff. I would only do the work myself if I had to or it was by-far cheaper and easy. I am thinking it would be cool to have them re-veneered with something cool and unique looking. I'm looking for ideas and hoping I can get a great result ~$500-$1000, but I have no idea how to go about this or how much it might cost. Ideas and advice welcome.

They'll be fine. As for me, I like surround speakers for surround instead of towers because it usually impossible to mount towers high like the sorrounds should be. Surrounds should be mounted a few feet above ear level.

I have 20's and I also have Forte II's. I have done some side by side comparing lately. I agree with gbpusa and his comparison. the 20's have a better soundstage and the bass (very room dependent) is consistently better in 9/10 situations. Of course, if you look at the old literature on the 20's, better imaging in a taller/narrower box with the same Klipsch hallmark attributes were the design goals. Klipsch said at the time...They succeeded.

I just installed them along with the titanium tweeter diaphragm. My forte II's were damaged so I can't give a comparison to properly working stock. They look identical in every way to stock to me, but I think I read somewhere that Crites says they measure better than the original.

Ladies and Gentleman. Got home about 10 last night and found the new diaphragms and crossover kits in a box on the porch. So I replaced the tweeter and midrange diaphragms in one speaker and the difference was night and day. But it was too late by then to continue so saved the rest for this morning. I replaced the mid-range and tweeter diaphragms in the other and waited for everyone to wake up so I could do some semi-serious listening. The crossover parts are still in the box; I've not gotten to that yet. First, some observations. I could not "see" any sign of damage whatsoever with any of the diaphragms I replaced. The old ones looked fine to me. The tweeter diaphragm I took out had some fiberglass wadding in the area behind the dome. I suppose it is supposed to be there, but I think probably some of that fiberglass wadding had frayed was occupying space in the magnet gap along with the diaphragm coil. Also, when I replaced the old diaphragm with the new titanium ones from Crites, it seemed to me that the plastic "thingy" (phase plug? not sure what it is called.) in the bottom of the horn was actually touching the dome of the tweeter diaphragm. It impossible to see by looking, but I could hear a slight "crinkle" sound of the diaphrahm when I placed and removed the horn. I cut n additional a spacing washer using an index card and the issue went away. Now for the mids. I had these forte II's serviced once in ~1995 because I was hearing something funny on certain piano notes. Now I might not be able to find my car registration on tax day, but somehow I can sure find my 15 year old service tag on some Klipsch speakers that I bought 18 years ago - go figure. Well I looked again at what they had done back then. It said they replaced the midrange diaphragms and cleaned metal shavings out of the magnet gap. It said they replaced the diaphragm with a K-53 diaphragm. Now the astute observer would recognize that the forte II does not have K-53's, it has K-61's. (The original forte had the K-53.) I started to think that this may be the "problem". But the diaphragms I took out looked identical the the new ones I got from Crites, and perhaps they are interchangeable with the K-53 diaphrams, I'm not sure. Results. TADA!!!! These things sound like forte's II's are supposed to sound. Authoritative. In your face. Rock and Roll babay. They might still need some breaking in, but so far, I have to call "touchdown". This has done the trick. BTW, I happened to send an e-mail for Klipsch asking if they still had diaphragms available for the forte II's. They said yes. I happened to get mine from Crites, but I guess if you want "original" you can still get them from Klipsch. So I am a happy camper! I'll let you know how the crossover repair kits go when I get to it, but that might be several weeks away given my current schedule. Thanks to the Klipsch community for all the advice, opnions, and suggestions.

I'm pretty sure the woofers are fine (thank goodness). I decided to order some new diaphrams and caps from Crites, and we'll see what that does. I plan on doing the diaphrams first. First the tweeters, then the mids. I'll listen after each step and see what changes I can hear. I'll post my results as soon as I can. These things aren't obviously damaged, but I do suspect some sort of damage/wear causing the poor sound.

I started thinking more about Wuzzzer's question...Could they be damaged? I'm now suspecting that may very well be the case. I listened a little more carefully today to the midranges, comparing one speaker to another. They both sounded bad, but one was clearly worse than the other. I think one or both midranges may be damaged. Would replacing the diaphrams fix damaged midrange drivers? I'm hoping yes Based on responses so far, it seems the most prudent thing would be to replace the mid and tweeter diaphrams and see what that does. Agree?

wuzzer, how would you describe before/after w.r.t. the mods you have made?

Perhaps, but they don't sound like theyare "blown" like I might expect. I wonder if there is some sort of test audio file out there that I could play to see if there is such damage. How would you describe your before/after experience with the crossover and diaphram upgrades, especially w.r.t. bass? I've been trying to figure out how aging effects capacitors and I'm not seeing big big numbers. I don't know anything about how drivers and passive radiators age either, could they just get really stiff? I don't know.

I am the original owner of a pair of forte II's I bought in 1994, sold to a neighbor in 1997, and bough back last week. (I sold the forte's in 1997 so I could buy some KLF-20's, which I still have and love.) So the forte II's are 16 years old and appear to be in excellent condition. But I think they don't sound as good as they are supposed to. Bass is very lacking and the mids/highs seem like someone is shouting at me through a bull horn. Is age the culprit? I have read here on the forum about many forte owners, who have repaired/replaced their crossover networks, tweeter, and even sqwaker diaphrams. One person said that capacitors wear out and negatively impact bass performance. I have been skeptical in the past about crossover part upgrades, but clearly, something's not quite right. Is it my own ears - I'm very used to the KLF-20's? I'm prepared to try crossover and diaphram upgrades, but I thought I'd see what the forum's thoughts are first and I always like to understand the the "physics" of what I'm doing. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Nice! I am similarly happy today. About 14 years ago I sold my Klipsch Forte II's (oiled oak). I am buying them back from the guy I sold them to and will pick them up tomorrow. Yipee! The wood needs to be oiled, but otherwise they are in excellent condition. I am so happy to have recovered my long lost children, haha!