Bubo

Thanks for turning me onto the outboard amps, I may have overdone it.....but the sound is superb.

It's a keeper, built out the rack and integrated the components last week. The new cables and a few adapters and cooling fans are on order. Perhaps the best system that I have listened to, and that's with the Synergy B3, S3 and C3 speakers, with better speakers, I'm sure the sound would only get better, the last 1%....

I'm interested and following

This thread is on using Pro Crossovers to derive the signal for the sub woofers, also some good suggestions on subs. One of the things we were playing with at the get together........ It's in the Mac Section. My LaScalas bottom out at 56Hz, how low can you go? http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=621586

I have sampled lots of different systems, IMHO the Heritage line is the standard to measure the other consumer speakers by. I have done no sampling of the Pro line other than theaters, so I won't comment on the gear and haven't done a spec out. Strongly recommend using the THX setting of 80Hz for the surrounds and sending the rest to the subs, this is how the movies are made, and probably a lot of the TV content too. The LaScalas have tremendous clarity and punching power, yes they bottom out around 60Hz, but below 80 is going to the subs.... A Heresy for a center speaker is better than almost any center speaker on the market, for my current home experiment I will be using LaScalas for the Fronts and a Heresy 1 for the Center with 3 outboard Yamaha MX-800 Amps. Using my Synergies, the results are WOW on the music videos. I expect the Heritage products to be noticeably better. I don't have room for Heresys as the rears, or I would put them up in a second. I will most likely be building a second rack in the near future, and may move the TV to a wall mount so the Heresy can fit under it without sticking out into my tiny room. Given the application, I would use solid State with it's tremendous power reserves in the Caps. My Pioneer Elite Receiver MCACC auto equalizes for the speakers and the room and cancels standing waves (If I understand it correctly). Side by side, the RF7s can't punch with the LaScalas, not even close. The RF7s are fine sounding speakers. Stock LaScalas with something like the MCACC equalization should deliver stunning results, a Heresy in the Center and surrounds would rock. I like the TV at eye level, and the same for the Horns on the LaScalas, so the center has to be shorter. My two cents.....

Are we taling about my Mac system?? If yes, I am still thinking about it. The current surround expermiment has me rethinking 2 ch pre amps and DACs etc. For example if the Pioneer Elite is THX compliant, why not use one to front end the Mac Amp and ditch the DAC, and Pre amp, and eliminate the need for a separate EQ, Crossover and acustic analizer and compensator?? The Pioneer MCACC does all of the above with only one D-A conversion, is integrated and probably a lower cost, certainly in a used unit. Phono input would be an open issue.

My plasma puts out enough heat as it is. I can't imagine 7 channels of tube amplification on top of that. I'd have to buy a separate air conditioner for my living room alone. Or move the Chicago, tropical by comparisson to Minnisota......

Startech relay rack with wheels. You can get them everywhere, Amazon has them for approx $140 delivered. I use the APC G5 Power filter and Sequencer in the middle. It is better than almost anything at any price, it protects against undervoltage which is the real killer as opposed to overvoltage. Lots of good features and dirt cheap. I know APC from Telco, Industral and Military I was very happy to see them make some small stuff for out hobby. I use 15 inch vented shelves which fit almost anything, watch the weight ratings, for the Mac Amp I had to buy a special shelf for the 90 lb load. Again everyone sells standard shelves, I did very well with Centeral Office surplus, aka new old stock shelves on the auction site. I purchased enough for two racks, since the deal was good and I wanted a match if I started a second rack, which it appears is about to happen. Also watch the direction of the lips on the shelves, I like both bent up slightly to avoid accidents. If I were in a quake zone, I would attach the top of the rack to wall attached bracket, these are also standard products. I left a little more than a one inch gap between systems for cooling, magnetic and electrical fields and easier to clean with a duster or air compressor. Also easier to take the gear out the front or rear when needeed. Power cords are routed on one side and cables on the rear and other side. Total cost rack, shelves and power unit was approx $500. Good luck and enjoy. This is my current surround experiment which will require a second rack if I move forward on it.

thats how i ran the adcoms you saw at my house I'm waiting for the all tube surround experiment, using something like the MCACC function on the Pioneer to equalize for the room and the amp performance. I'm really begining to wonder if 3 very inexpensive 2-5 watt tube amps would do the job in this scenario.

Don McClain will have to find a new home, if I keep moving forward on this. The last phase will be deciding if I keep the venerable Mac gear, it does sound so good with vinyl, that which it was designed for.

Thought I'd try 3 Yamaha MX-800s front ended by my existing Pioneer Elite VSX 21 TXH Receiver, which already sounds great. Phase 1, Unit test to ensure Yamahas work individually, used a bench top stereos for a week each. Done Phase 2: *Systems test phase, started yesterday *Using the B3s, C3, S3s, and RW 12 D Reference woofer. First listens are existing Pioneer MCACC room equalizations settings. Listened to some complex modern music using the THX Settings that derive 5.1 from a 2.0 Stereo Source CD. This Delerium tune (from the Karma LP) is a always a good stress test for any system, the new set-up delivered it in 5.1 with surprising clarity, accuracy and surround effect. Sounds great. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAMeXjeswWg&index=1&list=PLC5DF58B378E55371 Phase 3, Bi Amp the C3, the Pioneer supports this via the B Speaker outputs, I still have some reading and head scratching to do on this one. Phase 4, recalibrate MCACC using Yamaha Amps. Phase 5, may try LaScalas as front LR, and a Heresy 1 for the center and leave the S3s as the rears, no where to put the Heresys behind me, too large for the shelves. Yes I need a bigger room. Before After

The get together got me thinking about surround with outboard amps, I had purchased some for this purpose; but never got around to it. This is the second phase, systems test. I tested the units individually over the last few weeks. Derick started me thinking about an outboard amp and Brandon sold me the first one of these fine Yamahas. I think I'll start a new thread in the surround area.

Botti, yes!

I've been running the Pioneers Elites for at least 5 years. The auto set up feature, MCACC is nice, but takes some getting accustomed to. Pretty sure their is a manual option to reset the defaults. I would find it and memorize the location. The manual is C at best, but with lots of patience you can decipher what you need. After running the auto set up a few times, I made a few minor tweeks with the manual speaker set up. Notably making the center channel a bit lounder since this is where the dialog comes from, I typically don't listen at theater volume. The quality of the amps and pre pre amps in the Elite gear is quite good. Having said that, I will be going outboard and bi-amping the center channel at some point. Better than leaving the amps on the shelf doing nothing and they are not worth selling and too expensive to replace with newer possibly inferior ones. I'll be using three Yamaha MX 800s. This should yield all Class A at most volumes and insane amounts of overhead that I am unlikely to use. But better than collecting dust. Don't be afraid of the manual set up menus, they are friendly once you get the hang of them. On the small v large, I went large with the C-3 and B-3. Typically I keep the sub below the setting the auto set up wanted, occasionaly crank it back for a movie. My two cents......

I am not a woodworker, but do what I must. Given your question, I would not practice on a pair of LaScala cabinits. I would call some local cabinit makers, and see how much they want to stop by the house and cut the cabinits in your garage, and make the top boxes for you. They may want to do the trimming at their shop, in which case either you take them in a U haul van or have them picked up. The top boxes will be at their shop, time to think about stock v aftermarket horm possilities like Crites, or others. You could A. oversize the top boxes to accomadate a differnt horn and a different tweeter like the Beyma baboon but that so many like. Or B. same size top box with larger horn, and a small box with the Beyma tweeter on top, floating as it were. They may like it if you supply the materials like birch so they don't have to screw around with it, cash is always appreciated. If you know the horns you want, I would supply them to the cabinit maker so the holes etc fit the first time. I built a dog house once, it looked like a coffin with a pie hole.

http://www.klipsch.com/heritage-minutia

http://www.klipsch.com/heritage-minutia

Since getting more than a couple of people at a time into my LR would be problematic, I am posting a pic of my systems.

moray, Greetings, you like the 125s better, better sound?? I installed the CT125 into my Heresy and yes I liked them very much. Much smoother and more extended you need to remember that we are talking totally harmonics here no fundamentals. I also changed out the stock phenolic mid diaphragm and went directly to the titanium diaphragm and that is a big improvement. Best regards Moray James. Moray, As always a pleasure to hear your thoughts and experiences. I find the tweeters on my Heresys and LaScalas a bit squeeky to be honest. Some of it is source to be sure, some possibly wear, some possibly engineeering v cost trade offs in the original design etc... or the level of tech at the time of manufacture. Fot it's 25th birthday, I drove my McIntosh gear to the factory for a complete going over, which they did. For a 35th birthday present, I think I will give my Heresy's a going over followed by the LaScalas. I think both may use the same tweeters. The horn drivers and woofers and crossovers are different to be sure. I think I will do one pair of Heresy's and compare them to my other pair given the approaching long Winter. "Winter is Comming" At 35, I feel that the original components have delivered full value, so changing some parts out is in order. I have new crossovers that will be going in too, yes I probably should have just resolder the caps, but this was before I had invested for the ongoing rebuilds of 30 components that will be ongoing projects as time and courage allow.......Mostly re-cappping working products and changing the relays and other easy and time consuming stuff. While it is still warm outside, the Toyota may get some new wires and plugs, at 82K miles, they have done their job...........

moray, Greetings, you like the 125s better, better sound??

Quanitzation error and loudness wars argue against CDs for quality. Older versions of CDs are actually more accurate. As to vinyl vs CD take the music where you can find it. $100 carts are fine, anlong with a quality turn table, vintage can be had for less than $100 plus a trip to the shop for a tune-up. My vintage Mac and Yamaha gear have great phono sections, the Emotiva stand alone gets good reviews too for $200. I have some spectacular sounding CDs, and plenty of not so great ones, Loudness wars had destroyed some great recording sessions. There is also a lot of great old vinyl out there, I average around 60 cents an LP and I'm not even sure if they are still in print aka on CDs. As to streaming, someday......