Fried Elliott

Ray gave a GREAT response. The MDF you get at home improvement centers is real dense and kind of looks like it was made of super pressurized cardboard. I have used it in a couple of projects. Good compression load bearing material, not so great lateral. Takes screws and fastners well. Cuts, mills, and sands very nicely with SHARP blades and CLEAN sand paper. Because it is so smooth, any scratches or flaws you introduce will be magnified so work slowly.

$150. Wow! I just paid $290 for a used pair in excellent condition on eBay and thought I was getting a pretty good deal. All the KG-4s on eBay the past six months have gone for $300+

I have no idea who this Rollins guy is but his picture makes me tense. What makes me more tense is the flash intro. Flashy animation with a purpose is one thin, but just to be flashy adds no contentand is annoying. To me, this sends a message exactly the opposite of my view of the "Klipsch Listening Experience"; i.e., realism, clarity, and no frills bs-free audio engineering.

I had noticed a large number of serious collectors here had KG-4s as their "seconds" so I figured it would be a good starter set for me. Thanks guys, for your guidance to this point! There is a pair of SS-1 on eBay in white, which will be perfect for their location in the HT room. I am going to get started building the HT equipment frame this weekend! (And yes Doug, I own that Makita miter saw and Bosch sander.)

The KG-4s arrived today. To say I am a bit misty eyed as I write this would be an understatement. I grew up singing in a boy's choir (age 8-13) and playing trombone in band, orchestra, stage band, and drum and bugle corp (age 12-21). My "ears" miss the sounds as I heard them then. As soon as the KG-4s arrived, I hooked them up to my recently acquired Denon AVR-1801 and since I don't have any input sources yet, my Sony portable CD player. In the old days, every time I moved the stereo, the first record that went on was "Return to Forever" by Chick Corea. The turntable and records are stashed somewhere and so I cued up "Make Some Noise" by Liquid Soul (acid jazz). The sounds that have been trapped in my head these 30+ years --- they're all there. The trap set sounds like a real trap set and the sax sounds like a real person is playing a sax. The trombone growls and the trumpet flutters. There is a real, honest mid-range. The bass isn't mushy, and the high end is crisp. Its real. I am verklempt. Talk amongst yourselves.

Check out: http://pix.crutchfield.com/HTIG/150dpi/HTIG_150.pdf for a good review of the basics.

My RX-7 was metallic blue, with the black interior and grey seat insets. Oops. Wrong forum. I agree with JTS8 --- he has it down perfect.

Ross/Doug --- If you gentlemen are having interference problems from the saw blade, I suggest you upgrade to the Makita LS1013 Dual Slide Compound 10" Miter Saw. In continuous use, it creates a very pleasant full spectrum standing wave in almost any garage/HT. I think you will appreciate its versatility. Of course, if you need a higher frequency noise cancellation unit, nothing beats my personal favorite, the Bosch 1274DVS 3" x 21" Dustless Variable Speed Belt Sander. From a low growl to a subsonic whine, this baby will eliminate any notion of a coherent audio environment for 100 feet. I had considered upgrading to the larger 4" x 24" Bosch, but found I didn't need the extra punch at the lower frequencies. You can find these fine instruments at most home improvement centers. The best prices, new, are found at Amazon. Saw: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/stores/detail/glance/-/hi/B0000223I3/103-9860361-7914235 Sander: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000223HB/qid%3D998941931/103-9860361-7914235 This message has been edited by Fried Elliott on 08-27-2001 at 03:03 PM

Twin-size tri-fold futon.

Hey gang --- Just scored a pair of KG-4s over the weekend on eBay for $296. My very first Klipsch speakers!!! I ultimately intend to use SB-3s in the HT and put the KG-4s in a larger room as our primary "audio listening " speakers being driven off of our HT room. But for now, I was thinking about using the KG-4s in the HT setup. Assuming I go with the KG-4s as the front pair for now, what would be the best next speaker(s) to add to the HT: (1) KSC-C1 center, (2) CSS-1 surrounds, or (3) KSW-12 sub? Or something else??? With the KG-4s, I don't think I would really need a sub until I switch over to the SB-3s --- correct? Also, I notice very few SS-1 are being actively bid on eBay. What is a good source for these?

Hi Juan! I think the most important thing is to first establish the distance between the television/monitor and the perfect seating location. Much like setting up your desk/chair and your computer monitor, there is an optimum distance for you and your television. I would get that nailed down first and design the rest of the environment outward from that. Everyone will have their personal preferences. Personally, my wife and I prefer sitting closer to a higher quality set than sitting farther from a larger set. A screen-to-eyes distance of about 7' for our 32" Sony trinitron is nice and it looks like this will also be good for the 48-53" HDTV sets.

Looking at picking one of these two units for my first-time HT setup. Recent completed eBay transactions for these two units are averaging $240 for the Yamaha and $275 for the Denon. Recently purchased a Denon AVR-1801. Intend to hookup to pair of SB-3, KSC-C1, KSW-12, (surrounds TBD). I also hope one day to have a 300+ Sony CD jukebox to add to the mix. 50/50 movie and music. Small room, so probably will never REALLY be cranked up. Would one advantage of the Denon possibly be simpler remote control operation in conjunction with the 1801? Which DVD/CD player would this august and wise assembly of Klipschies choose for under eB$300 (eB$= a dollar on eBay)?

quote: Originally posted by samuel r: sorry fred, i didn't mean to put that quote in. just experimenting and it went through...all of it. hope you didn't think i was mocking you. No problem! I have no doubt what you say is true. I think the core of my observation was to say well terminated, well shielded, and good solid connections are the critical elements. And it sounds like you have such a system. I think my point may be a literal one; i.e., the actual "wire", other than a very nominal current carrying capacity, is not the issue. And, depending on the quality of the passive filter components used in their HTS1000 and similar items, that too can make quite an improvement in signal quality. *** I am NOT saying what follows is in any way related to you or your experience with Monster products!! *** I think alot of the Monster bandwagon is urban myth and a very cool name. I mean, wouldn't YOU use wire the size of jumper cables to hook up your 500MW amp? What? You mean you don't have a 5000MW amp? Dude! Speaking of 5000MW amps, that remind me of... THE ORIGIN OF MONSTER CABLE Once upon a time I had "Stairway To Heaven" cranked up on my 5000MW amp and I started getting static and popping in one of my speakers. Now, chances are its not because of the cheapo 18 gauge zipcord I used --- its because the speakers have been dancing around the floor the past six months and the last little strands of copper are hanging on for dear life in the little clippy binding post thingies (a technical term I picked up on another thread here on this forum!) But I am not paying very close attention to the details and since I am pretty sure the 5000MW of POWER is not getting to my speakers, I figure I need MORE WIRE. I mean, just look at those fat pipes the electricity comes into my house on, right? So I go out to the garage, grab the jumper cables, clamp them babies in there, and wow! What an improvement! Anyway, from that point on, everytime me and the homies are chillin' listening to "Stairway", we flash back to that whole scene with the jumper cables and we tell everyone our story. The rest is history.

eq_ Stopped by the Lowes and Home Depot in Garland out on the very east end of 190. Both have SuperStrut. Also, both have a 3'x3' version of the mat almost identical to the mat I use they call "Industrial Anti-Fatigue Mat". The HD had something called "Powerlink" and "Soflink", which are the consistency of a tumbling or gymnastics mat. It would be good for lighter components like turntables and other players. Check 'em out.

Yeah, you're right about drooling all over that site! The best one is the combo cat scratching post and feeder!!! Or maybe it was the electromagnetic lock cat door! I just found a NAD 716AVR 5-channel receiver on eBay for a "Buy It Now" price of $125. The CFO better get home pretty quick! I have also been using some X10 stuff as part of our bag of tricks for managing remote server/network installations. We plug a X10 controller into the back of our UPS and from there segment everything into two different plug strips on two different X10 channels; a "routine" reboot and a POGFOJ reboot (a POGFOJ reboot is the one you start with the words, "Pray Oh God, Father of Jesus..."). Then we call the main controller and cycle power to one plug strip or the other depending on the situation. We can be anywhere and call in to the X10 controller from a cell phone, which is very handy and looks like FM to someone at the other end! This message has been edited by Fried Elliott on 08-22-2001 at 08:40 PM

Me too! I go put some tape on the wall/floor, measure, go hit Visio, go surf eBay, come here, repeat... I have built some really cool load bearing structures with the SuperStrut. Its really not that expensive either. Get yourself a cheapo cutoff blade for a circular saw and just start hacking it up. Be sure to wear goggles! WoodWorld on Floyd Road has a good selection of hardwoods and hardwood paneling. Their prices are equal or better than HD or Lowes. Depending on how "techno" you want your look, you might use the mat as the top surface too. A little recessed pad area for each component...

Hey eq_ I have been debating that very question myself with my own little setup. It sounds like I am in a slightly different situation than you (e.g, NO CORNWALLS) but the issue is similar. Here are my own thoughts, mostly based on the care and feeding of computer rooms. In all of my computer facilities we use the black rubber mats you see in heavy use commercial facilities centers like kitchens or checkout areas. It is fairly stiff, approx. 1/2" thick with an approx 3/4" hole pattern. I have seen it in some of the local home improvement centers and I have a source locally if you can't find it there. This stuff will carry huge amounts of weight and it seems to work great for our servers. I would probably cut up the carpet and install something on top of a layer of this rubber pad. As you are well aware, your gear is all extremely heavy. What I might consider doing is building a metal frame using HVAC SuperStrut and put your plywood on that. If you space the SuperStrut correctly, I bet you really don't even need the plywood except for cosmetics. I know our Home Depots carry SuperStrut and I think the HD on the Tollway just north of 190 has a great selection. So I guess what I would do would be: 1.Cut up the carpet 2. Build a SuperStrut frame to the perfect proper height, width, etc. for each component 3. Glue the black padding material to the frame's bottom where it touches the concrete 4. Skin out the frame with plywood/veneer etc. depending on cosmetic details. Go check these materials out and I bet you can whip up something really cool. fried EDIT The SuperStrut is in the Electrical section and the black rubber mat is around the flooring section where they sell the door mats. Not all the stores carry the mat I am thinking of, but when you see it you will recognize it. It's about the only thing that screams INDUSTRIAL NOT FOR HOME USE in that section. This message has been edited by Fried Elliott on 08-22-2001 at 04:51 PM

You guys are geniuses, just stinkin' geniuses! The winning solution may be a combo of eq_'s cool coax adapters and Doug's version of option #2. I had just about decided on a Denon DVM-1800 in combo with some version of a Sony jukebox and if I toss my Adcom gear into the mix I will have everything to go with Doug's setup, which sounds like just what I need. Our two teenagers are long gone but during their occupation we naturally just HAD to have a cable television setup in every bedroom, every family room, the kitchen, and the pool deck (hey, its Plano). I think the only rooms without a coax drop are the bathrooms (we're Eastside, not Westside). When they left for college they took all the televisions with them (natch) leaving all the cable behind; all of which are A/B runs! By repurposing the approx. 3,923 miles of coax in my house, surely I can hook up a few speakers. The truly coolio aspect of eq_ and Doug's suggestion is that all these now unused cables "drop" into my garage attic, which is less than 15 feet away from the HT setup and easily accessible. I can install the second amp in the garage (air conditioned, but that's another story), run the Sony's analog from the HT to the garage adcom stack (<15 feet), hook up the coax from the various rooms to the amp using some of eq_'s converters, and I am done! All I need now is a remotely controlled master speaker switch? Or should I do that at each speaker location, perhaps with some cheesy volume control rheostat? Oh yeah, and some cooler weather to get up there in the attic! BTW Tony, it would probably be Leann Rimes versus Herbie Hancock but you were pretty close to the mark! EDIT --- Better idea... Sell the Adcom gear, get a cheaper receiver for the garage (background girl music, remember?) and put the balance into the RB-5 KLIPSCH speaker fund for my office!!! (Shhh!! she'll never know...) This message has been edited by Fried Elliott on 08-22-2001 at 03:15 PM

The Newbie Poses Another Duhhh Question... I am now the proud owner of a Denon AVR-1801 (and eventually some Sony 200+ CD jukebox) which will be at the center of my burgeoning HT setup all in a dedicated media room of the house.. Before I even get the HT setup finished, the lovely Mrs Elliott wants to know if "we" can listen to DVDs/CDs in the living room on the new system. You know --- that all important "background music" when the girls are having their little chats. Me? When I'm listening I'll be front and center in the friggin' HT room with the Klipsch speakers! There is currently an unused TV video cable running between the two rooms. Otherwise, its a difficult wiring run. I have an Adcom Receiver and 2-channel amp I could press into service and a pair of Paradigm minis. What should I do? My understanding of the options are: 1. Hook up another pair of speakers to Channel B of the 1801 and figure out how to run approx. 100 feet of speaker cable. 2. Use some "output" (preamp out?) of the 1801 to source a remote amplifier that in turn drives the living room speakers. 3. Get her an inexpensive 5-disc CD player/receiver, hook up the Paradigms, and deal with the complaining resulting from having to move CDs from the jukebox in the HT to the living room system. Is there a more elegant solution that solves this problem and for other rooms as well?

Well, I knew this would be in here somewhere. Having been a physicist in a previous life, I have always been amazed at the claims people made for these esoteric speaker cables. Give me a break. I am glad to see a ratioanl understanding of the issues prevail here. In another past life as a CIO, I found that our number one HW tech support problem was cable ENDS or noise pickup from unshielded cable. Its amazing what an untwisted pair cable can pick up (second place was poor power conditioning.) I would definitely spend more $ on cables that were properly shielded and terminated. Otherwise, the input/cable/output circuit is all the same.

Okay, late last night I saw we have a little forum for posting pictures of our setups. More fuel for the fire! I have been considering a pair of SB-2 or SB-3 as the mains in my new HT. I am building a cabinet for the whole setup and that got me to thinking it might be way cool to use a pair of SCW-2 or SCW-3 instead. Setting aside the price and convenience issues, and considering only the sound quality, does anyone have any experience with this tradeoff? Which of these four options (i.e., SB-2, SB-3, SCW-2, SCW-3) would you choose for small HT and occasional audio? My untrained, uneducated, NHAOT (never-heard-any-of-them) guess would rank the options as: (1) SB-3, (2) SCW-3 or SB-2, (3) SCW-2. In looking at the specs, it does not seem to be straight-up apples-to-apples when substituting an SCW-2 for an SB-2 or an SCW-3 for an SB-3. Note that Klipsch seems to imply that is the case when it comes to substituting RCWs for RBs. Assume they will go with an SC-1 and a SCW-10 (or -12) and all are being driven by a Denon 1801 AVR I scored last nite on eBay for $280 incl S&H. Woo Hoo! Thanks! fried

Well Doug, I just scored a one year-old Denon 1801 for $290 including shipping on eBay so here we go! Looked like a pretty good deal. The (now previous) owner wants to upgrade to a bigger, badder, Denon. I looked at the 1601 vs. the 1801 in more detail on the Denon website. In addition to the slight increase in power (5 ch @ +10W/ch into 8 ohms), the 1801 has two more analog inputs (+PHONO and extra VCR/V.AUX), one more digital optical input, and adds one more channel of video input and output. Otherwise, I bet they are the same units. With the extra video, I can now "permanently" hook up the video camera cables for the electronically challenged Mrs Elliott along with the VCR. I also liked the idea of the little extra power and the extra optical port, but what really sold me was I can hook up my Beogram turntable onto this system and build it into a nice shelf in the entertainment center I am whipping up in the garage as we speak. Speaking of which, I think I am going to mount up a pair of SB-2 or SB-3's as the fronts with a CSS-C1 center and a KSW-10 sub. Still haven't decided on the surrounds but don't need to in order to get started on the fabrication.

I just saw DwK's observation about Hillcrest HiFi steering customers away from Klipsch and into Paradigm. Well, ten years ago I made that mistake. I knew I wanted Klipsch speakers but I got talked out of them. So now here I am on the Klipsch forums asking you guys which Klipsch speakers I should buy. I could have been listening to Klipsch for the past ten years but the day is soon coming those crummy Paradigms will be up for bid on eBay. I can hardly wait!

Thanks Tony! My initial $400 for everything strategy is withering under everyone's enthusiasm for the RB-5s! I am curious about your experience with the Sony CDP units. I had kind of narrowed down on the CX-335 or CX350. The CX2?? units would be just fine for me but was avoiding because of some negative reviews I saw on audioreview.com --- your experience? 200 series is around $160-$220 on eBay and the 300 series is around $200-$300.

I have a couple of questions about surround sound. What is actually being recorded for the surround tracks? What I am trying to ask is, what do the producers/recording process intend for you to hear on those channels? Does anything go or is the sound of "lesser quality"? It seems this question would have some bearing on how to spend your speaker $$$ to get the most for your buck. It seems to this rookie that four identical speakers, LR front and surround would be the ideal setup (plus the center and sub). Is this a good working theory? But practically, isn't the "important" sound all upfront in the center and front pair, and doesn't economics enter into the picture? To illustrate this point, it just seems morally wrong (if not a waste of the planet's limited high quality speaker resources) for some of you guys to relegate a pair of Cornwalls to spending their lives as surrounds when they could be worshipped and cherished as the primary pair in my system instead!!! My other question has to do with surround speaker placement. Assuming we put them even or just slightly back of our listening position (<18 in.) as discussed in previous threads, what elevation is best: on the floor(tilt up?), ear level, or closer to the ceiling tilting down? Due to the geometry of our room, if we go ear level, they are going to be only about 3 feet away. Problem? Thanks! fried This message has been edited by Fried Elliott on 08-20-2001 at 02:15 PM