Dave A

Talk to Bob Crites. I would imagine he would analyze your crossover for a reasonable fee. Fluke has a 117 multi meter that will check ohms. diodes and capacitors. Check EBay for prices. It will not do larger value caps well though and no ESR measurement. The Fluke was over 10% off what I measured with a B&K 885 on caps 30uf and up. Every crossover cap that old I have measured has had high ESR on the caps even if they were in spec otherwise.

Just bought a pair of Chorus I's for $700 although that is getting very hard to do. I like them better than Cornwalls and Fortes and they have good bass + pretty musical in all other ways to. Dub to Cello if I was not running Pro gear these would be the ones for me. No they are not like 20hz subs but they do go easily down to the lower 30's. Every person who has tried running their speakers off iPhones I have personally met has hurt their sound quality. I sold a pair of older KP250's to a guy recently who insisted on running them with his small tube amp and iPhone which he brought with him. Sounded really bad until we hooked up his amp to feed direct from my PC audio splitter and then it sounded right. The dude gets home and I check in to see how he liked them a few days later. They don't sound like they did down there at your place he says. Are you using the iPhone? Yes. Stop doing that and you will be OK. He did and it was rave reviews after that. Wired not wireless would be my choice also. Posted before reading to the end. There are people here who buy and sell overseas all the time. Don't know what the hassles and costs are but it goes on a lot. I sell at times to a Korean guy who accumulates and then sends a shipping container back home full of Klipsch and other things. I bet someone is doing that in your area too if you can find them

Just catching up today as my main house PC has lost it's hard drive apparently. I thought I was doing the right thing by making backups and doing what Microsoft said to do but my tech guy says their system images are not very good. Made one a week and a half ago and thought I was covered but apparently not. I had a ton of things on there I thought were safe. Told him I needed to hire him to teach me what to do so this never happens again. There are third party aps which will do it right he says so on I go. For those who have asked no I have not fired anything up yet. They are in a large neat pile though and now I am back online with my laptop I will post a picture of the pile.

I know I know but still it can catch you when you didn't intend offense but just had a poor choice of words. There are places where I want to offend but that is not here.

Moderator if you found my comments offensive please remove them and I will re do my road trip post. Otherwise I have said all I am going to and we will just have to agree to disagree. It is surprising the quicksand you can step into with people whom you never intended to do so.

All right guys you can choose to beat me up over ugly but this is what I am told when sell speakers.Wives that come with spouses here to buy speakers ( he is the one interested) may like the sound but would rather have a pair of pretty smaller Fortes than big ugly black boxes that sound far better. Perhaps I should reword my comment to be many people who have pretty speakers have never heard Pro line speakers which only come in black. So yes I like pretty veneer, who wouldn't but I like sound far better and there is no veneered speaker that comes even close to the better Pro and Jubilees. I base this on my own listening experience and until I got these KP-450's I just had no idea of the better world of sound out there. But yes for those who come here to buy Fortes and Chorus and Cornwall speakers any flaws are grounds for getting beat up in price and the big black ugly boxes get a pass. So pretty counts in a big way with my customers over sound quality as long as there is a good level of sound quality. They choose appearance over sound when both are side by side to compare and this is not conjecture it is my real life experience.

My other option is to pair a 402 horn with the 456 bass bin. If in fact it will even need it. The 450's I have are really nice and the 456 horn may be all I need and a much smaller foot print. Never heard an MCM before so who knows. The specs say the 456/450 digs deeper in bass and since I like organ music that is important. Maybe I should keep both heh heh.

I had a pair of KG4 speakers once. Painted black and I removed the paint to see what as underneath. Very nice Walnut veneer with a bondo'd corner. I ordered a gallon of tintable Duratex just to see what might be done with something other than straight black. Had it tinted medium brown and they looked pretty sharp. Black does not have to be the only color available and it is an option besides veneer. Raw birch is fine too and I had a pair of La Scalas I stripped down and coated with satin spar polyurethane and they looked really good. That's even cheaper than having to paint them black and what imperfections there were did not detract from the end result.. It just seems a shame to me such a great product has so little public presence and suffers accordingly in the market place.

I am not sure what I am going to do. I have heard so much about these that I will set them up and have a listen at least once. I do have space for them in my shop if I put them on wheels so they can be moved when needed. These are in great shape and came with a crossover so I can plug them up with my single Crown amp and let them rip.

Also on the way back I stopped in to see Cory at Metropolis Lake Outfitters. My first time to hear Jubilees and I am very impressed with them. After spending some time with him I think he is a fellow audiophile and dedicated to the idea of good sound. While he is like me in that knowledge of all things audio pales into the trivial when compared to say Chris A or Claude and some others he does have ears and can judge what sounds good and he is striving to learn much more about it all. I enjoyed my visit with him far more than any audio store I have been in where people who did not really love sound like I do blabber on and on about crap. Sitting in Cory's sound room with the Jubilees was a complete revelation and I knew I was sitting next to someone who would never lose his amazement of what Star Wars games and music could sound like. I share that same feeling and Star Wars brought goose bumps to me as I write this remembering what I heard there. I have pretty darned good stereo in my shop but that is it and there is no X Box or big screen. Just a comment here to Klipsch. Besides the poor effort at publicity Klipsch seems to suffer from I don't understand why the pro lines can't have a "homeowner" finish that would make them more acceptable to people who sadly worry as much about appearance as they do the sound. Now to me sound is the most important but many suffer under the has to look good while doing so ego problems. Cory also had a pair of La Scalas there and while they were very pretty the sound was purely second rate compared to the Jubilees which were not far from the same price. I can close my eyes and hear speakers. I can plug up my ears and see speakers also and that however brings scant and purely fleeting enjoyment. I have to drive for a LONG way to hear good speakers from Klipsch but I can drive to Nashville and hear these stupid looking pitiful sounding $22,000 Bowers and Wilkins Buck Rodgers looking monstrosities at HI FI Buys. At three times the price of the Jubilees and far less audio ability in every regard. They do have those $1,000 diamond diaphragms though so I guess as long as you could put that on a little stand up card in front of the Buck Rodgers B&W any of those owners could be reassured it was money well spent.

Here is a picture of Tim's shop. I have to arrange and unload today but will get a picture of it all in the shop by tomorrow. I have a lot of arranging to do needless to say. Oh did I mention that the MCM's came with crossovers? I MIGHT have to hook them up and see if my neighbors like them as much as I will ;D

OK now my turn at Tim's. Went Wednesday and driving back was much slower than going. Bought 4 pair of KP-456's, Two three way stacks of MCM 1900, two EV TL440 subs and four knockoff single bin MWM's My van picture did not turn out but I can say that the eight 456's filled it side to side and end to end. The trailer is twenty feet long and you can see what was left over. It was not exactly planned this way but I could not have fit more in any where. I have not heard a single negative word about Tim and after meeting him in person I can see why. From beginning to end dealing with and meeting with him was a very good experience. I had a guy who bought a pair of Fortes meet me at Tim's since it saved him a trip to my place. The guy standing next to the dumpster(just noticed that picture did not make it in but rest assured he is there). Told him he had probably bought the last pair of Forte's I would be selling. I am losing all interest in the consumer side of things as they are a hassle to buy and sell with any reasonable profit once you add in time travel and expenses. While it is a hobby I never meant to subsidize others but pay for my stuff. There is satisfaction in there in one regard though. Many of these I have sold seem to go to older guys who have medical problems and they really like sitting down and listening to music and I like hearing happy people in a situation like that.

I go there tomorrow though my stack will be somewhat larger Good thing is I have a forklift for unloading and moving at my end.

I am thinking great big heavy duty plastic garbage sacks for mine It gets dusty in the shop at times.

OK That's what I will do then.

So just leave well enough alone and perhaps just change out the tweeter diaphragm for one of your's? I see so many people speak highly of these DE120's I wondered. If I did stick an Lpad in there or a resistor is the tone going to improve enough to be worth it?

You can order these direct from Klipsch now both the 12 and 15". You can also get a recone kit from Simply Speakers. If it were me I would dab a spot of black speaker cement on the tear and redo the dust cap. I used black speaker cement like Simply Speakers and others sell to repair one with about a dozen little cat claw marks in it and it did quite well.

Good Morning. That one is about the mid range and what I am talking about is an adapter for the B&C DE120 to the horn lens and then is it suitable for a K-79 tweeter driver replacement. Guess I will answer my own question this coming week as I am picking up a pair to modify, test and then sell.

I am working on just that very thing out of machined aluminum. About a week from now I should have some available and have figured out pricing. I am also going to send some to people I think can analyze them for proof of concept. For those willing to buy them beforehand I can only say this. I put a pair of "Fastrac" style with the APT 50 as offered by Eminence and not the better ones Bob sells into a pair of LSI's while also disconnecting the Zener diodes which are no longer needed. All the shrill went away and those APT's are a lot cheaper.

John have a look at the horn I sent you and see it cast into the throat area. A part of the lens and not the driver.

What got me wondering was that I made an adapter plate for an ASD1001 two bolt to three bolt K-79-K Klipsch stock horn lens but the ASD is pretty heavy. This same plate can also be pre-drilled for the DE120 which people rave about and it is a lot lighter so much less danger of breaking the plastic horn. If indeed that is even a problem. Then of course the next question is that baffle looking thing in the horn lens and should it be cut out. As an aside here. People worry about perfect alignment and exact throat diameters and then here goes Klipsch putting obstructions in the middle of everything and that is OK. Why?

So I see the same values for air coils and iron center coils and autoformers. What precisely is the difference here and why? For instance I have an LF crossover in a pair of KP-450's and the schematic shows a 2.75mh value. I see Bob uses an Autotransformer for the KP-456's he builds and this 450 bass bin is the same one. However Klipsch substituted 4 small air coils for this in their factory LF crossover and I assume to reach the same value with parts on hand. Does it really matter how you reach the goal of mh? I do see differing resistance values depending on what you are willing to spend and have no idea how that affects things either.

Has anyone used DE 120's with a pair of Chorus speakers? I am getting a pair and wondering if this is a worth while upgrade people might be interested in.

I think he was just someone looking for a place to kill some time and thought that constant barrage of topics was interesting. Problem is that on a real forum with people actively involved doing things someone endlessly talking about things and never doing them won't fly. I figure he was retired or unemployed and bored since the number of posts in a short period of time plus hunting for new topics had to be taking big chunks of his days.

No they are not the same.The older ones have a cloth surround and the new ones a rubber one. I ordered one of the new ones and it looked so odd compared to the old one that I decided never top do this again. Now this decision was based upon being able to readily resell them and consistent appearance is important. I got a recone kit next time around from Simply Speakers and it looks and sounds OEM to me. You do have to reuse the 3.6OZ weight from the old passive for the new one to keep the tuning right. As others have said you can use black speaker cement and things like coffee filters are durable and make the patch on the back side for visual but make sure to use the glue on both sides. I have also been told heavy gel superglue can work to and emergency field repairs made this way have subsequently lasted for years. One of the guys who used to do SLV for the Grand Old Opry told me that one.