Jim

4 is the number of speakers going in the ceiling, or the "angled" speakers that will go on top of the mains and surrounds facing up towards the ceiling to "bounce" off of it. So 7.2.4 is 7 channels, 2 subs, and 4 "Atmos efects" speakers The models with the most problems were the 709,717 for your model if I'm not mistaken. I had the 609,709,and 809 (twice).The problem was they used cheap resistors and capacitors. There is an addition you can add onto the board to bulk it up.It disperses the heat better as they have issues when heating up due to the lack of heat being able to escape the inside of the unit. Try running an external fan if you want to extend the unit, or if you can get Onkyo to exchange the board do that. They will also offer a "trade up" on the next model up.

The update is already available on this model,and you may be able to get it cheaper on EBAY. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Onkyo-TX-NR838-7-2-Channel-Network-A-V-Receiver-/281381302684?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item4183a1f19c http://www.ebay.com/itm/ONKYO-TX-NR838-7-2-CH-Network-AV-Receiver-THX-Certified-/271659078666?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item3f4024940a http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-2014-ONKYO-TX-NR838-4K-7-2-Channel-A-V-Receiver-TXNR838-HDMI-2-0-/131339768755?pt=Receivers_Tuners&hash=item1e9475d3b3

Marantz and Denon would be my choice, along with Yamaha when they do theirs. I would never ever buy another Onkyo again. Especially since they can't even keep their HDMI Boards working. Not to big of a confidence booster for their new products when their not so old lines can't stay working. 3 units and all 3 had issues with HDMI. I personally don't think ATMOS will even be usable for the next few years,except for a few and far in between movies to dangle a carrot in front of us. That,the lack of 4K video, and the lack of the younger people out there streaming most of their video doesn't seem to be a big booster for any of the above mentioned. In my opinion it will only be viable for people who are into Analog, vinyl, and the older generation of people who still enjoy the sound quality as it's supposed to sound. I don't see the average person having the money to upgrade their receiver, speakers,layouts,blue ray players,etc to be able to push this.I know my kids and their friends alone prefer to watch things and listen to music on their tablets or phone.

Mine also has adjustments, I just have to set it once hooked up. I'm assuming that it is for making the center channel seem fuller in sound? I am also contemplating doing this. I just purchased 2 small amps that are 60 watts per @8ohms or bridgeable at 160 watts into 1 channel, so I may just use them for the fronts. I got the amps to run the extra channel in the living room, and was going to use the 2nd to go full 11.2 in the family room, but may hold off for a little.

On your front height., are you using speaker brackets and tilting them down into the listening area, or just hanging them on a screw or shelf facing straight out into the room?

If you're in Portugal, maybe you are thinking something else than "max" volume? The 626 is about 95 watts per channel @20hz-20khz, and 115watts @ 1k setting. if you are looking for more volume, maybe all you need to do is raise the "level" when doing Audyssey. If it isn't raised it will not sound as "loud" and will need to be adjusted. Once adjusted the sound will be louder at the same db level showing on the screen. I've had the TX-NR 609,709,AND 809 and without adjusting the levels it sounded like it had less power output than Yamaha and Denon. Once I set the levels differently, it adjusted to a higher level and the receiver didn't seem like it was working harder with a lower sound output. You may also want to adjust the xo as it may help with clarity which might sound louder, and also check the EQ setup to make sure the compression is changed. It will seem louder when adjusting from light,medium and heavy and keeping it off of Dolby surround setting.Play with those settings and you should be able to get more power out of it. Your room size will also help determine why they are/aren't that loud with/without distortion.

I have 2 subs already in the system. My plan is to use the 2nd set of KS-3's as the FH due to their build as the 1st set is used for side surrounds. I really don't have the room to do the rear surrounds so I'm going to use the FW unless again I took a set and put them right up against the ceiling angels down to the main seating area. That is only going to be about 18 inches behind and 8 feet high of the couch. The Deonon receiver allows me to do this, however my Yamaha only allows 1 set of presence in the front. My plan over the long run is to run a 9.4 in the living room, and a 11.4 in my family room

Thank You everyone, I wasn't sure

It's a Denon AVR X4000. I already have it set up 7.2 with the front wides and side surrounds.It's expandable to 9.2. My living room setup will not enable me to use rear surrounds due to size, unless I put them either in the ceiling or Bookshelf (the KSB 1.1'S I have) at an angle from the ceiling facing down. I only have about 2 feet behind me and the S-3's are being used as side surrounds. I have a 2nd set of S-3's I want to use as the "height" (not hooked up yet) and a set of "wides" (the other set of KSB's). So if I add an external amp, I can up the system to 9 channels capability in 1 room. So the question is the S-3's are 110 watt input, but I'm assuming the surrounds aren't going to be putting that much out, so hence my questioning on how much power should the amp have. Hope that makes a little more sense.

I'm thinking of expanding my living room 7.2 setup to a 9.2 setup and wanted to know how large of an amp I should use.They are going to be used as "height" speakers. My receiver is expandable up to 9 channels with 2 driven by an external amp, so I want to take advantage of this. The other 7 channels are going to be run by the receiver.

Well the 1st set of S-3's arrived and the c-25. The S-3's are a lot larger than I expected.My other surround speakers were set facing towards me on either side of the wall where the couch is about 8-9 feet from the main seating area and about 5.5 to 6 feet off the ground. Should these also face me from the side, or the back wall which is about 2 feet behind the couch as one side of the tweeters is right up against the wall. If I do put them on the rear wall they will still be wider than the couch and will then be about 7 feet off the floor due to large doorway. The other set is going to be used as front height and I have a set for front wides already in. So I will be adding a amp to push the 8th/9th channel as it's a 7.2 receiver. The wides most likely are going to be moved about a foot or two in front of the mains and about 7 feet high also. Right now they are 2 of the KSB's and are on brackets facing on pigeon toed and about 4.5 feet off the floor and 12 feet from either side of seating center point.

THIS is why I joined the forum

No where did I say your speakers were underpowered. What I stated is Klipsch and Yamaha said different, and then got attacked by the "cool kids on the playground". I in no way would even begin to question people on here who are by far more educated than I am within audio. Come into my sphere of knowledge and it's a different story.

I meant that it's a hurdle that people have to overcome. People get barraged wattage numbers all the time by manufacturers but nothing else. I don't recall the last time I saw something advertised "x sensitivity!" We've all been uninformed before. It's part of the growing experience in the hobby. That's basically what I meant, wasn't attacking you.

As I am not as well hearsed as others on here,I have been calling the companies to which I have their products and asking advice,as well as doing the same on here. I chose to get the bigger receiver as I sold the other one on EBAY and then turned around and purchased something used/refurbished and purchased a square trade warranty. I am not saying you need to do this, nor am I saying anyone is right or wrong. My point was to bring it to your attention, as I have same said speakers so you can do your research and make the decision yourself. From my ears they are going to be better suited for movies,and not music as much and having said that,someone else said same above. I also have a separate set in my living room and they sound night and day apart from each other with the clarity, so for now the 28's will be used more towards home theater.

As I stated I am a newbie, and am going by what I was told by both companies. My ignorance is due to not having a forum like this before I purchased my stuff, nor having been involved in the "click" to push in the right direction. Having stated this, whether or not it is true or whether or not it is not true for the speakers being driven by a lower watted receiver should be something a "newbie" would want to know about,and I would think the forum to which we joined would be the place to put that information. The receiver I was talking about was pushing 90 watts, so for the 35 watts extra you have, it would still be "underpowered" as per Klipsch/Yamaha, but even if they are wrong, and I don't discount what you are saying, the 35 watts is going to help overall isn't it? If not why wouldn't they just make receivers push 50 watts a channel across the board? There is some positive for the power. -Unfortunately we aren't all as informed as others on here and that's why we join these forums, to learn. However it seems that your response was the only one really addressing his question.

I'm contemplating putting speakers in my ceiling for rear surrounds and front "height". Does anyone have any info on how these sound,or any other suggestions? I'm not looking to do ATMOS, but I am contemplating doing an 11.4 setup.

Without sounding to naive, I see a lot of people on here with gear like this that they use in their systems. What actually are they being used for? Are they just being used for a 2.0 or 4.0 setup for "music"? Or are they also being used for video also. I'm a newbie so please excuse the ignorance for now.

I do have both sets you are speaking of on here and have had no issues with them. I am using a Yamaha RX A2020 receiver that is 140 watts per channel rated. I have the 28's as my mains (they are set at 60hz), I use a Synergy c-20 as my center (80 hz), and use 2 sets of KS 14's (set at 80 hz). 1 is for the side surround, and 1 is for the presence in the front. I have a 9.2 set up, so I also use KG 3.5's for my rear surrounds and actually have them on speaker stands for a higher sound field than ear height.I'm running 2 subs on this system and with the Yamaha,it doesn't let you drop down lower than the lower end of hz settiings on their YPAO, so they are at 60hz. I usually listen to my music and movies at higher volumes than the average person and I have no issues whatsoever. I listen to everything from Rock to Trance with thumping bass and have no issues with them handling the power if in 9 channel stereo mode. What I was told however by both Klipsch and Yamaha is that those 28's are severely underpowered by a receiver rated at 100 watts per channel as I had a smaller Yamaha receiver powering them. They both said the speaker being underpowered as much as that could affect the speaker and/or the unit as the unit will be working extremely hard to push those, so I did upgrade the unit with more wattage. I am also a newbie here but being we do have somewhat the same set up I figured it may help.4 kids ages 13 (triplets) and 10 plus 2 dogs limit my buying power,so I also have looked for bargains. I got my 28's for $150.00 a piece from Best Buy, the c-20 was $99.00, and the 2 sets of 14's were $220.00 combined,so that was the only reason I purchased them.My thought process was a lower end Klipsch speaker is still better than a mid to upper end Sony or other large name company. Best Buy should be gearing up for their holiday sales, so they may have some open box items coming up. I also call other Best Buy stores while there to see if they have anything else that I could purchase and either pick up or have them drop it off at that store.

it says it is on Amazon, but Amazon only states DVD

The Division Bell started that way for me also, but grew on me. I love both Floyd's but think Gilmore doesn't get the accolades he deserves. Listen to the older stuff and he's singing on a lot of it. The whole thing with Waters totally turned me off to him personally. I saw them in Yankee Stadium and was just in awe. 7th row floor seats mid stage. You could feel the heat from the lights and the laser show was just out of this world.Gilmore has always been one of my favorite guitarists and I definitely look forward to hopefully getting concert tix again if/when they tour. I do however think this new cd won't be as good as the past ones as they didn't make the cut then, why are they making the cut now? I know they added new stuff in with the older stuff to finish some of the work, but I am hoping it turns out to be another Division Bell.

My youngest with our 2 dogs Diesel and Phineous

The Yamaha's are definitely brighter, but can be "warmed" up a little. I like them better for instruments playing and for HT. They seem to have a "fuller" more all around sound to me.The warmer sound from Denon and even warmer sound for Marantz is nice for people who focus more on voice/jazz type music in my opinion. I just felt that they weren't bright enough for the instruments and didn't give a full enough sound for me. Maybe it was the store where I listenend to them. Maybe it's just that my ears have been accustomed to Yamaha all these years, but I like hearing a nice crisp high and thumping bass with the mids not as focused. MARANTZ didn't seem to have the thumping bass, but were ridiculous with voice/jazz and mids. I feel Denon is in between both.I can say the older Yamaha receivers were warmer in sound than they are today. That makes sense. I am a novice on a budget so my Denon is my first high end receiver. I had a POS Kenwood before that that had a miserable amount of sibilance harshness so I really wanted to go warmer. I see what you mean though, Saxophones on my KG 5.5's sound holographic but things like high strings and especially piano is lacking a little. I am happy to have found this forum, I am humbled by the knowledge and experience of the people here. you and me both on being humbled, I literally feel like a little kid asking an adult how to tie my shoes and to show me. very glad I found this "community". For the few days I've been on here it seems everyone looks out for everyone.

I'm definitely going with the Duratex, Thanks Guys! Just purchased a pint

very good,i have been looking already.....I listen to a lot of contemporary jazz......I think I found one for 150.00(Klipsch)....it has the wire hook-ups in back alsi(ins AND outs) that a lot of them don't have,so how would I hook these up? If you have the RCA input just use the input for sub on the back of your receiver and plug it into the powered sub. The just keep the KG's hooked up to R&L Mains. Otherwise, take the speaker wire and go from your R&L Mains on the back of the receiver to the input of the sub R&L and then run the output to the speakers. If the sub is adjustable you can vary the volume for the bass on it as well. It most likely will be if it's Klipsch.