RoboKlipsch

Klipsch may have it. Im not sure the warranty status. Parts express would have a suitable replacement if not available.

Great thread....long lag between posts I wondered how I missed it. Why is it so fun thinking through options like these?

Thank you Chris and the others in the dicussion for sharing. Please feel free to continue on discussing as there's a lot here. I had originally thought to post that maybe, the engineers build a soundtrack with a crossover in mind, but then decided not to suggest it because it seemed to me to presumptive. Even though I considered that, I had not considered what you said, which is if you cross lower, you are in essence using all the speakers then to create those frequencies between the soundtrack's crossover to mono and the sub's actual crossover. Brillant stuff if you ask me. My mains and back surounds are spec'd down to 30s/40s, but my center and surrounds are in the 60s so 80 has seemed to be best theoretically. I do have the ability to cross them separately but don't have enough to knowledge to know if it would be better than a global crossover.

DJ you got no fear making these things, they look great and professional. Good luck and please finish it within the next 10 days :) :)

I agree, surround sound in games are much more immersive in movies in my opinion as it reacts in real time. Especially first person shooters. I remember when I first got my 15'' sub set up and played HALO 3. I just ran around blowing up everything I could to see how it would rumble. Shooters are always incredible nowadays and the latest COD certainly fits the bill! Another huge bonus, and to tie back into YM's thread, are the tactile transducers. Once I put them in my couch and played games with them, you no longer care about or want the controller to rumble. The couch rumble is night and day. I was playing Far Cry Primal the other night and when hunting the Wooly Mammoths, you can feel them shaking the ground (couch) with each step. No matter what a sub can do, the bass shaker are incredible adds too, I hope YM considers them, possibly a few buttkickers as an option for crazy action flicks (i.e. Jurassic World)

For me, as someone who has been interested in these topics seriously for less than 1 year, I have found this study to be the most enlightening for me: https://www.harman.com/sites/default/files/white-paper/12/11/2015%20-%2006%3A12/files/multsubs.pdf

It always makes me a little uncomfortable when one of the authorities on a subject says something seemingly controversial, such as that correcting the frequency response of the fronts is a bad idea! I'm not saying he is wrong, as I have no authority to say that, but it goes against much of what I hear elsewhere.

To better understand much of what was written above, let me ask a basic question about sound mixing in a movie studio. The sound engineer has the ability, I would assume, to send the full frequency range to any of the channels being used in the recording. Chris you refer to this as being the way movies were recorded back before the implementation of the subwoofer concept in a commercial theater. So back then, were they only recording 2 channels for movies, or 3? I don't know the history of theater sound development, but am guessing that at some point, it was discovered how immersive it could be to have a channel to the sides of or behind the listener for fuller envelopment. Since a listener is almost for sure NOT sitting in the center of the theater, a center channel "anchors" the sound to the center of the screen, even if sitting to the side. For both the theaters and home theaters, the concept then of trying to match the bass to each channel (i.e. have full range speakers) became to costly and/or size prohibitive, and so subwoofers were implemented as a cost/size solution for theaters and the home. Because there is no "universal" crossover point for lower frequencies, I guess a sound engineer has no choice but to send the full signal to each channel and then let bass management handle it being crossed over. If some/most of what I posted is on track, then why is there an LFE channel? Why bother having that extra channel when, for example, a desire to have a low tone come from the "center" simply would be a tone that is equal across all channels, and handled by bass management? If I can understand these concepts,then my question turns to the 1/4 wavelength, or approx. 3.5 feet. 3.5 feet from the mains....or more than likely, from anywhere within the "circle" of the surround setup? As always, please forgive a lack of proper terminology or comprehension. Correct away as my goal is to learn.

In most places the public goes gators are fed enough not to be hungry. That is the main solution. I went to school at UF and saw them everywhere. Lakes streams golf courses marshes and the everglades. Takes getting used to for those not native. No fault of the family at all of course.

Nicely said Derrick. I knew it was a joke but I maybe know you a little better than others. I like people who know the old culture and arent afraid to express themselves. All in all a really nice thread

Love the idea and the enthusiasm DJ. Can't wait to see these beasts ☺ Aftershock lol dwfinitwly the right name!

I have the rp250c. If what you are wondering is....is the newer one better than the rc52 or rc62? I would say no...and driver size is different. Budget permitting the rc62 is better.

I'm quoting Derrick here, but Chris I would like your opinion on Derrick's crossover discussion above. Is he "right", generally speaking, about where the crossover should be set? Generally speaking, do you think all the speakers should be crossed at the same frequency? Thank you, RK

See https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/151087-why-horn-loaded-sounds-better-than-direct-radiating-faq/ for more information and a visualization of the difference between modulation distortion (AM and FM) and harmonic distortion. You can easily measure the levels of modulation distortion by looking at the sidebands a two-tone test signal played on the woofers of your fronts or subwoofer. Just use REW to produce the two-tone signal and look at the side band amplitudes on either side of the higher frequency signal. It's not hard to see them. Horn-loaded woofers exhibit much lower side band amplitudes than direct radiating woofers, typically 25 dB lower, i.e., amplitudes about 1/20th to 1/25th the amplitude of the same woofers used in direct radiating mode to produce the same SPL output. That's why horn-loaded bass bins sound so much better that direct radiating ones, especially vented boxes, which also experience a big rise in group delay at port resonance frequencies. The trick of choosing a crossover point between your direct radiating subwoofer(s) and your other direct-radiating woofer surrounding loudspeakers in-room is a trade-off between the factors listed in post #4, above. The OP is free to ask questions on any of these various factors. I find two factors usually control where to cross over: 1) room acoustics (subject mainly to the dimensions of the room, the placement of the loudspeakers, and the placement of the listening position), and 2) the inherent sound quality of the bass bins/subwoofers, usually controlled by the diameter of the bass drivers, the expansion efficiency and rate of the associated bass horns (if any), and the linearity of the drivers in "large signal" (Richard Small's terminology) amplitudes. I find that having to cross over at frequencies above 80 Hz is usually driven by poor sound reproduction system choices for bass reproduction for a given room. Educating yourself on the physics of bass modulation distortion and room acoustics usually leads to different choices in bass configurations, and in room choice--loudspeaker/listening positions. Chris Wow. That was quite a side-trip into distortion! Most interesting is that if I am understanding this better, what I thought was headroom is actually lower FM Distortion. When a sub is given it's entire range of frequencies to play, say from 20-200, the fact that it plays such a large range of lower frequencies causes higher FM Distortion. When pushing a sub to it's mechanical limits, AM Distortion comes into play. Its no longer as linear and this difference translates to our ears as distortion. When pushing a sub to it's thermal limits, compression comes into play, and the frequency response is no longer the same, another form of distortion. (FM distortion again? Chris am I on the right track?

I've read probably a hundred reviews of subwoofers, and they always seem to make a point to talk about how high up they can play flat....i.e. this one is flat to 200hz. When it comes to crossing over the mains, there has been a lot of discussion that by crossing them off higher than their lowest frequencies, they gain more headroom i.e. if the speaker could go down to 35hz, but you cross it at 80, it provides "headroom"...if I am using the terminology correctly. When reading reviews of the subs, they make a point to talk about how this sub can go this low, it also can go up this high and remain flat. My question is, do subwoofers also have the headroom issue like other speakers? For example, if your sub can go up to 200hz, but you cross it at 80hz or 100 or 120....are you gaining "headroom" with your sub at the lower frequencies, or does this not apply? Always trying to learn. If I asked the question incorrectly, please feel free to correct it. Thank you, RK

As a rookie I made this discovery also after doing some reading. I actually used an entry mat, folded over, and have done so for both my subs on the hardwood floor in the main room. It made a world of difference, no doubt!

Jim your points are valid and make sense. I understand where you're coming from and if you guys know each other well it makes a lot of sense. We each have opinions and no doubt judge. I feel that unless someone asks for an opinion that it can be dividing to share it sometimes, that is all.

Valid points guys but too much judgement. He shared his strategy which most have experienced and I appreciate and understand where hes coming from.

For the average home theater maybe a closed sub would make a difference....not in your though. The vented idea works great, and whether you use the DS4 or the UMAX18 I think the way to get something new and improved is to go with a box size you haven't had yet. A lot of the DS4 models seem to be shooting for around 20CFT, and the extension you would have that way, right behind the couch would give you the benefits of a closed sub with 4 drivers in it potentially. But opening the door on an even larger box may tempt you to change the others too...

You will need to experiment to see if the front corners are better than one up front and diagonal to the back. Its a big room and 2 will sound great wherever they end up.

Mediabridge is terrific imo.

Toole, considered one of the better researchers in speaker design and placement, suggests that with two in a room that shape, putting one at the midpoint of the front wall, and the midpoint of the back wall, provides the optimal starting point for output and smooth response. Second best starting point is midpoints of the side walls. Some like to have 2 up front by the mains. Depending upon the subs themselves and their output, you may want to try opposite corners.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/ele/5632199246.html This IS my posting, and can also be found in the Garage Sale. I prefer to sell to a forum member, and will give preference (FYI). RK

Derricks comments on the room are key. A 10inch sub in a room with a hardwood floor may be louder or deeper than a larger sub in a carpeted basement.

Those that dont game may not understand but call of duty or tomb raider and other top games in that theater could be as fun as any movie. As great as home theater is, some games have even better sound than movies. Hopimg to hear about a game session!