hwatkins

Timbre and tone are very important to match with your center. I found that this matching was most obviously necessary with the mid freqs on up. The lower freqs do not seem (to my ear)to have the variance in tone that I get with the higher freq drivers. That said - yes, matching efficiency is a very important thing to do (after matching the horns for mids on up) and will pay off handsomely. You can get the efficiency with 2 8 inchers wired parallel if you make the right choices. You need the T/S parameters for the 12 inchers you are matching to find your best drivers - Klipsch tech support generally can get this for you. This efficiency matching makes the speaker work like a good mate. Before I built my center (modified Heresy) to go with a couple pairs of Heresy, I noticed some irritating mismatches (the center too soft or too loud or too tinney) that were clearly solved by some diligence in mating the crossovers and efficiency of the woofers and directly matching the horns. If you use a good sub, the lows can be managed with diligence only to the crossover point to the sub, which can uncomplicate part of the timbre matching issue..Good luck, write me direct if you want more info on my specific project.

What a dangerous place to state opinions, but I can't help myself, sorry. I give diddly sqwat about Kain's position on this war and I am personally offended by most (maybe all - too many words to read through) of his positions. I will only defend his right to those opinions. As to Cybergeek - when you start putting Liberals in the enemy category I am equally offended. Thanks for a stereotypical analysis. You have some good points, then start attacking liberal folks like me. I still defend your right to those opinions. I am not sure I would have made the decision to enter this war, but I do not know all that our leaders went through to arrive at the decision, so I really can't go any further than that - having been on the 'inside' of some past national policy decisions (just a fact of the job I had) it was always my experience that a significant amount of secure information was used by generally well intentioned folks to arrive at the decision. I do put trust in our leadership having gone through that process. When we start shooting at folks, it is always good to have an 'end objective' as this war does. This helps our soldiers focus and probably saves lives. When we chose to be very cautious about civilian casualties, it complicated the soldiers duty - especially when the opposing military uses this as a shield and a tactic. We need to support our soldiers as they tackle this difficult job. Lastly, as we take on the 'Axis of Evil' and remove the current membership, what do we do next year with the new 'Axis of just as Evil' (sorry to borrow this from John Cleese)? While I support our leadership, I do not plan on wearing blinders, so I will have to be watching and gathering information to find where my opinion and vote is best used. I do know that history tells us that the introduction of Democracy through force takes longer to grab hold since the affected population has an extended period where they are unable to tell the difference between the last dictator and the conquering army. May this war end with speed and victory. Let's hope the right thing is happening and that the world approaches the post war activities with humanity and integrity.

Hello Dave - hard to say from the specs. I am dangerous here as I have only built one speaker todate, but working on more. I have read alot but cannot claim to not misinterpret what I think I know. Since the in wall is set up as an infinite baffle - IB (basically a free air unit) I am not sure what happens when you close the box. This is of no consequence (or more precisely very little consequence) with the tweeter, but may well have some effect on the woofer. Klipsch doe not put the Theile/Small measurements on the site, but if someone in tech support can pass that to you for this woofer you can simulate the effect of a closed/sealed box. With the specs you can also simulate the effect of a port if the low freqs are of importance (quite honestly - if set to run small I would not bother). There is no reason you can't design an approriate box, just don't know what size it would have to be to sound best. A simple solution to the IB would be to open the back of your enclosure to the the wall interior between the studs - this would closely aproximate the free space these units were designed to work in. I would only be a little concerned about baffle mounting, but it can cause some anomalies if done poorly or doesn't match, but I assume the baffle is incorporated in the speaker. I think it is a great idea and let us know how it turns out. Also - let us homeboys know when you want to sell those Academys

As to break in - I have had it happen on new speakers. In the last two cases I have had to readjust for SPL changes after a couple of weeks (of course I never measured SPL before and I didn't notice a problem). Both speakers got louder by a little during this time. Both have been stable for over 12 months, so my experience is that about 20 -40 hours of use is plenty for any changes you may see.

My 3802 allows two sets of surrounds, but only let's one set work on any source. This way you can have 'A' surrounds for side positioning and use with HT and 'B' surrounds set in the rear corners for music. Just tell the 3802 your preference for the source and it will send the signal to your designated speakers. Still just 7.1 at its core...

Ah CyberGeek and CC... It is so refreshing to find someone who is willing to discuss the facts and is not mired in attacking those that think differently than they do... Webmaster... Do not let this banning stuff eat at you and get some rest. The job is difficult and whenever negative action is taken you will question if you did the right thing. Invariably, there will be negative critique of strong willed action. Regardless, your action was one of several 'right' choices you had and to date has been effective. Don't lose sleep over some minimal fireworks. You are doing a great job. Everyone needs to remember that this is just like your television - if you don't like the program, either change channels or listen to music...

Horonzak - in case no one else did, PostFini made me laugh out loud. You stuck that right in the middle of geek talk (I recognize it because I speak it) just to see if anyone was paying attention. Clueless - a 'prewhore' is a 'postvirgin'.

Yep - I too agree with AudioFlynn's concern about censorship, but since our friends at Klipsch pay for our privaledge of discourse they have a complete right to determine what goes on here. That is a basic tenet of capitalism and I applaud the webmaster for choosing to make his life less miserable and not have to respond to complaints. I for one enjoyed the views expressed (there was some necessary weeding of the obnoxious) and it does serve to remind us that while we cannot agree on everything there are still common threads - houses, bills, taxes, pets, work and (of course) loudspeakers that make us as much alike as we are different...

Well Speedy - I may have jumped the gun on the spam comment - my apologies if so. When a first time poster touts a product and includes where to look for the product and the price within the first two sentences my warning flags are raised. I wish you well with this new sound you now have. As to A/B - I have two folks that have proven over the years to have similar tastes and share my opnions on the way equipment and loudspeakers sound A/B the Quantum Purifiers. Both could not tell any difference - while they may be in a small group that can't hear the difference, I am probably right there with them (since our tastes and opinions are so similar). Bybee sure gets some good press and far be it from me to 'engineer speak' - so I leave it to each their own.

Interesting stuff in both this and the other thread. Just to chime in with my opinions: 1. Suicide murder is not courageous unless it serves to save the lives of others. Otherwise, it is a cowardly approach that resolves the participant from having to face the consequences of their actions and is most often couched in 'higher calling' terms - this serves to absolve the perpetriator (sic) from responsibility (e.g. - In service to Allah, for God and country, etc.). 2. From the other thread as well - with relation to the Eastern Europe incursion under Clinton some folks are trying to rewrite history. They were in the midst of ethnic cleansing. Before entering the frey several hundred thousands had been in forced labor and murdered to 'cleanse' the populace. Our actions stopped that from continuing. Maybe we should look for other such opportunities that have an immediate effect (several African countries come to mind). 3. I do tire of quotable factoid arguments. That is an evangelistic approach that attempts to rally the masses without asking them to think. It is an unfortunate reality that so many want others to develop their opinions and are willing to forego analysis to embrace a noble cause. This is a partisan talk show host approach. We have even made it clear through our listening/watching habits that we do not want thoughtful insight - shame on us.. 4. Regardless of your individual conviction - Our very honorable soldiers are in harms way. While we can contest the rightness of the battle we should hope for a timely solution. I am very self serving here - let's resolve with as little bloodshed as possible to keep soldiers alive. While I think this war isn't necessary, I believe we should finish our committment with success to the stated objectives. 5. We should be very leary of a new world as being envisioned by our leaders. Zealous addiction to 'our way of life' and a desire to deliver that to the world bears a strong resemblance to Jihad when backed with force. 6. Liberal media? I was on the road for 7 hours Friday and scanned the radio for the duration. From my experience the media I encountered was predominately conservative. I did notice that when ever many of the conservative opinions were questioned a rush to bash 'liberal media' was the common response. I was also very much disturbed by misinformation and parrot like repetition of inaccuracies. A simple reading of news reporting and listening to our military leaders pronouncements would have served to deliver the truth - it appears that the truth would have damaged an opinion, so it wasn't deemed necessary. Forresthump2 - thanks for getting me to think. It is the radical 'facts to fit my mission' approach that gets me going. The arguments sometimes dwindle to the equivalent of shouting obscenities and become very much a one on one debate designed to fortify our own position as the only alternative. Let's hope that approach (and yours) does not become our tactic with the rest of the world. Enjoy...

Hello speedy - Sorry to say, but this is suspiciously spam like. Quite a few of my 'trusted' reviewers say quite the opposite. Your experience is obviously different, but I will hold off for now.

My listening of the two speakers and my opinion (based on all the placement issues others have mentioned): It is not a measure of specifications (to my ears) that is the difference. Quite honestly there is limited spec difference above about 300hz and the low end extension is fairly similar for what my ears heard. HOWEVER, there is no doubt that the Khorns sound 'larger' in all ways. By this I mean that the sound is really full at all volumes and the clarity seems to add a dimension that is hard to describe objectively. The same holds true, in my experience, going from Heresy to CW.

Jim - What are your total apprehensions? These are close to me and may be just the thing for storing til I have space for them, but I would like to know what problems I may be getting into. This is far less trouble than trying to get my original pair of Khorns back from my brother.

hdbrbuilder - Been to the river and done that - Our river was the Caddo outside of Arkedelphia (Arkansas' city of brotherly love?). Set up on the gravel bar with car 8 track wired to LaScala's, keg of cheap beer (usually Pabst) and several other entertaining activities. We would often, if Degray Damn was letting out water, ride those innertubes for about 8 miles. We would ride the Caddo until it met the Ouachita and follow the Ouachita River to the Highway 8 bridge coming into Arkadelphia. One inner tube always rigged for the keg...Those LaScala's belonged to friend and they took a beating over three years- beer spills, falls off the pickup, three paint jobs and general disrespect - and they still sounded great. Now for the quiz (no prizes - unless we want to all chip in for Moon's heritage setup) - How do us Arkansans pronounce 'Ouachita'?

Hello Tony I have made a modified Heresy (I) center using two Fostex smaller woofers - mine is low profile. If I had the headroom I would have done what you are doing. Regarless, the woofer-tweeter over squawker-woofer really widens the sweet spot for center information and is a quality performer for HT and music. I like it much better than the single heresy I trialed for a bit. John Albright has it right on the Xover - the type 'E' is specific to the K77 and K55 drivers (I can't recall if there is a significant issue with the woofers) and would have to be modified to work best with the HII stuff you have. Trey Cannon with Klipsch should be able to help identify the Xover for your HII parts. Al K could give you great help if you modify the Xover - the man has it down on the electronics. STL is also right about the series wiring. If you keep HII speakers and Xover you will probably be able to do some small in line modifications to a series wired woofer to even it out. For mine I went parallel - smaller cones needed this to get a closer match to the T/S parameters of the K22 the Xover was built to manage. Trey Cannon can get you the T/S (Thiel/Small) measurements for the woofer you go with. With these parameters you can use a couple of free (or near free) design programs to size your box. You can also simulate the frequency response of series and parallel wiring, and venting or sealed. You are only concerned about the woofers since the horns are separately sealed devices. In all cases you need to get an idea of what your internal volume of the box - be sure to exclude the space occuppied by braces, horns, drivers, xovers,etc. The T/S parameters are part of the basic info needed for design software. The programs are Unibox (great tool, but you need to get some education about what it does and what you can change), WINISD (which does a great job of the 'golden rule' box size calculation - you supply the internal volume and two of the dimensions -length, width, height- and it gives you the best third dimension to minimize box resonance) and Boxplot (a smaller tool that is quick and accurate). Search through google and you should be able to find these. I manually spot tested each of these programs calculations and compared them to each other to get confidence in their results. Be careful - this speaker building can get addictive. Just started a Pi Speaker project. The next will be a wooden horn project - Darn if I ain't sick...

I would think that even if your speakers needed to 'break in' again, it would only be afew hours - not days. I don't know what you had before, but 'getting use' to new speakers is important. Most likely (as has been with a bunch of new Klipsch heritage owners) you are getting use to the matching clarity and the dynamics of the mid to high frequencies. Lots of cone folks do interesting things to their speakers to get the resemblence of more dynamics (damping tweeters, booming woofers, etc.) that are fairly much in your face and give them a bold sound. Some times you have to get use to the change when you increase efficiency and do less to color the sound. Once you are broken in the rest resembles an addiction - welcome to our club...

The words used by President Bush were common wartime rhetoric that his speech writers borrowed from every upside leader in WWII (Hitler, then Musillini, then Hirohita(sp?), then Churchill, Then Roosevelt and finally even Stalin), so it is nothing for me to get uptight about. Most of what is being said now is intended to get us use to the fact of war, not to present any dogma. The real question is motivation - Is this a Cowboy's code reaction to some not so nice folks or is it real battle against terrorism? The 'war' that was proclaimed and had few protesters, was the war on terrorism. The question being asked is - Does this fit that war? I am disturbed that the terrorism issue has taken a back seat - it is our only declared war. That in itself is what others in the world are wondering - if it is not terrorism they are after, then what keeps them from developing a reason to not like me and take action against me. Let's say that this was Russia twenty years ago saying they wanted to attack Guatemala (another not so nice leadership issue of the times) using the same rhetoric after a massive terrorist event on their soil. How would you interpret this major military action in our part of the world? What would their words sound like to you? I bet it would sound more like 'Cowboy Code' than a rational approach to meet their previously stated goals. It isn't so hard to see why we are getting tepid world wide support. Don't worry, we should eventually bully that support out of our dearest friends and we can proclaim a 'global mandate'. We just need to be on the look out for the battered spouse syndrome...

Absolutely beautiful - great job. I am also anxiously awaitng your crossover answer. Having a modified Heresy as center I am on your side with this - Yours may be more artistic than mine, but I am learning.

There you go talking Amps/receivers - take this to the 2 channel area where it belongs... Geesh.

I am a flag waving liberal. Having sat on a school board and watched the 'like me' country club conservatism (those that are 'in' the group and those that want to be) try to enforce a wide variety of rules that are now covered by the new conservative groups like 'Civil Rights Association' that in essence gaurantee that those 'like us' will not be contaminated by those 'not like us' can be disheartning. It is a new form of segregation and, regardless of attractive evangelistic soundbites, the desire is to have a common type of person as the most priviledged. How unfortunate that the rhetoric makes people believe that the 'not us' are there because they aren't willing to 'pull themselves up by their own bootstraps'. Applying this logic to a 7 year old kid is segregationism at its worst. Enough of my liberal evangelism... OK - here is my delimma: As a proponent of Democracy and capitalism (still being that love my country, flag waving liberal), just how far should we go in making the world safe for democracy? The most common justification for this war has changed from battling terrorism to introducing democracy to a despot lead country. How far do we really want to go with this, and then what do we do with the remainder of the countries in this world that are not democracies as we describe it? This becomes an interesting morality play. I am right in the middle - no doubt that the spread of democracy, accompanied by an expanding middle class, is a recipe for success and internal peace. However, how far do I go to force this solution and what actions trigger my intervention? Do I fall prey to the 'like us' conservative syndrome and force my expectations on that country's society? Or through my internal discussion and subsequent inaction do I let a major funder of terrorism continue? Geesh - morality causes interesting internal conversations. When we make such moves, we darn well better be less rigid than quite a few of our conservative leaders - if you look close they show extreme favoritism to christian, middle to upper class capitalists that love their guns and dislike public discussions of sex While that was said with tongue firmly planted in cheek, the real point here is that if what we do looks like repression of a class or a religion, we can anticipate a world wide response. It is a recipe for war - repressed to the point that they feel they have nothing to lose. Add poverty to that, and initial foray success, then you will see an embolden action that will truly be the start of a very interesting time. No real point-counterpoint here, just an open dialog of some of my thoughts...

Whell - Got it - we are (and were) cool. Boys and girls - This is starting to remind me of Monty Python's 'Argument Clinic'. Although it is kind of fun. Remember I am a liberal, and while I enjoy the Rush Limbaugh bashing I do have to point out that Colonialism is, unfortunately, far from dead. It is still practiced by the United States (Puerto Rico to name one) - it may come under many variations (a favorite of mine is 'commonwealth') but is still more prevelant than most would know. Granted, it takes a much different form than the enslaved native approach of days gone by, yet it still exists. And yes, there is always a portioned of unbargained rule dished out by the nation in charge of the colony. It is dying out ever so slowly... As to the start of the post (since I just joined) let's all remember our friends, acquaintences, family and nieghbors that will take part in this war. Yep, looks like this will happen regardless (which is darned interesting) and those folks that accept their dangerous role as troops for our country need to be in our thoughts and prayers (for those that do so). Now to really big problems --- I think you should have to pass an IQ test before getting a drivers license and a drivers license should be required to vote! Now if Ashcroft would jump on that bandwagon he would have a supporter (I am still not sure he has interpreted the constitution in the same way as me, but to each his own..)

I agree Lynnm - Even though I just commented for the first time there. I think we have to treat it a little bit like the remote control on the TV - If we don't like the show let's just change channels or turn it off....

Hello Whell - I stayed away from this one as long as i could. As to your "History Lesson" - I believe Tom did not focus on 'Republican vs. Democrat' he focused on conservative vs. liberal. The parties reversed roles near FDR - prior to that the Republicans were the more liberal of the two - although the change started around the turn of the century. Looks like both parties ventured toward the center and slipped across to the respective dark side as the votes poured in. All (and that is not an embellishment) the old Southern Democrats are now Republicans. Tom's list is accurate - the conservative 'like us' approach can be very dangerous and is shown through history to have some very severe consequences when radically applied. As to an argument for or against something - I prefer history as experienced information, not the sole factor for decision making. BTW - neither being liberal or conservative makes (or doean't make) one a Hawk. Interestingly enough I have both liberal and hawk tendencies. Probably could be good revenue fodder for a Psychiatrist

Yeah - shipped and all you can get an equivalent pair for $450 to $550, so offer the same to the pawn shop. If they don't take the deal (I can't imagine they bought the speakers for much more than $300) look elswhere. Be sure to leave your telephone number with the shop - I would be surprised if you don't get a call within a week if no one else dishes out cash. Regardless, if they don't take the first offer nor call later - go back in a week or so and try again. Most Pawn shop folks understand the 'bird in the hand' concept...

Agree - Cornwalls or Heresys