hwatkins

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An FYI - I found that this is a great time to get an older amp/tuner/reciever that has a Phono input to use as a pre for the Denon 3802. Folks use to know how to handle turntables and you can use the record out (or similar output) to feed analog input on the Denon. Sound wise? Mine worked very well and there was not a noticable (to my ear) sound quality difference. This is with a Beogram 1700 TT.

Jonesey My sincerest apologies for appearing to find faults in your opinions. Let's be clear, I find fault in your evangelistic engineering (faith in an unseen thing) and I clearly believe that you have not listened closely to either of the subs mentioned. "Not my cup of tea" would be hard to apply to either of these quality products. My last word here - this is a wonderful Klipsch board and full of intelligent and thoughtful people that give me and others excellent advice regardless of the product. Folks rarely come here with baseless claims and generally place opinions where substantial subjectivity is required (your SVS is ugly comment is definitely an opinion point - notice nobody said lots about that comment). You should expect to get handled rudely here. good luck on this thread... ------------------ Hwatkins

Too much fun for me to stay away. Jonesey - You are a piece of work. Heck if I or others care about your reluctance to evaluate the sound and concentrate on structural integity of adding a plate to a cylinder. Trust this engineer (dare I call my self a good engineer?) when he says that the compromises made by this modification to the cylunder can be wonderfully offset by how that plate interacts to create the sound. You cannot have severe reservations about the sound quality of either the SV or RSW if you have listened to both. A preference yes, but nothing of the level that you profess. However, regardless of your infuriating lack of knowledge and baseless claims, you offered a great piece of advice - Try them on for size and see which one you like best. I think that others have already given their honest appraisal. Lastly - Jonesey, please do not return with the worn out line that I 'may' be attacking your integrity. Truthfully, you are either inept at judging sound (or engineering for that matter) or blatantly misdirecting (dare I say lying?) this thread. I hope you are the latter because niave folks are just downright hard to fix... ------------------ Hwatkins

Absolutely beautiful - excellent work and enough to generate envy from the ost arrogant.... I will PM later to discuss center mods. I am in the thinking stage (and testing the used market) to modify Heresy parts to make my center. ------------------ Hwatkins

I use both in main HT - HII front and H for sides. Tonal match is excellent. I really have to work hard at hearing a significant difference in the speakers. Since HT is also my main music I am also very pleased with 4 channel stereo and the wonderful match in sound. As to the difference - I can hear (if I really work at it) a fuller mid range from the HII. You have a good way to go regardless of your decision. ------------------ Hwatkins

Agree with all - my preference is heritage. Look for used. Heresy are a great fit for limited space but probably want a good sub with them. LaScala seems to be a good deal on the used market - if you have the space you would never look back. I'll go one step farther - focus on your two main speakers even if you are looking for HT - plan on making enough cash to fill in later with matching sound. This is a great way to ease into an addiction called upgraditis... ------------------ Hwatkins

My sincerest apologies for not mentioning Dreamboat Annie = Absolute killer album. My bad... Just took a quick look at my stash and also want to mention that most of the early Al Dimeola stuff is very clean and horns seem to repeat acoustic guitar very well. ------------------ Hwatkins

I'll add: Little Feat - Waiting for Columbus (Master recording two record set of live performances) Patrick Moraz - (self titled) Keyboard player that was Rick Wakefield's replacement with YES when he took an hiatus in the middle of their popularity. Excellent. Jean Luc Ponty - Enigmatic Ocean - Electonic fiddle that is a work out for dynamics. All the Alan Parsons Project albums are well made and excellent mixing - my only problem is that I only really enjoy about half the mixes on each album (However, 'I wouldn't Want to be Like You' may be my favorite vinyl cut of all time). Ditto on Yellow Brick Road and all the Supertramp stuff (Supertramp mixes and quality was always high). Madman across the Water has a really bad press made for the Columbia Record club, so you need to find one that wasn't made for that (sorry, Don't know how to tell the difference, but got a copy at a retailer after a really bad version from Columbia House). Pink Floyd 'Darkside of the Moon' - still very neat in its discrete sounds. "The Wall" is also a favorite, but my pressing isn't quite as good as Darkside. That is a shortlist of my favorites - I use a Beogram 1700 for listening pleasure. ------------------ Hwatkins

Missouri sounds interesting to me - private message with details would be a start. ------------------ Hwatkins

Here is a picture of what I did - they are big and hard to secure; ------------------ Hwatkins

On veneer repair - I go one step further. I always leave the area to be repaired in its natural jagged shapes (in other words, do not square the edges for ease of shaping the veneer you will be using to repair). I get close to the shape (not exact), glue and then fill any gaps with a combination of the sanded veneer sawdust and a little glue (kind of makes a wood paste)that forms a very natural, imperfect patch. I have always been pleased with the results and you can stain over the sawdust paste and get similar absorption. ------------------ Hwatkins

My theory is that most folks hear classical music in the worst settings - FM radio or poor stereo equipment. A significant percentage of clasical music recordings are poorly recorded and mixed. Therefore, classical music is viewed as high hat and snobbish. Classical orchestration is, by nature, generally complex in the number of different sounds and is as radically dynamic as any rock and roll (in my reality rock and roll is the only thing that comes close to the dynamic sounds of good classical orchestration). That means that if you have a setup that you like for rock and roll, you will most likely like classical music in the same setup. Just like rock and roll, a good live classical performance may well win you over - it most definitely gives you an appreciation for the complexity and wide range of sounds that make the final product. The point of this ramble - most of us hornies will say that we like our horns because of the very 'real' sound that we think aproximates a live performance. This is also very true with classical music and you will find many Klipschorns in classical music buffs listening rooms (I refer to this as being able to distinctly hear the triangle in the midst of twelve other sounds). Classical music is the root of rock and roll. You are not simply getting older, just wiser..... ------------------ Hwatkins

Darn - wish I had gotten here sooner. I am a big fan of the taboo party conversations - Sex, politics, religion and the criminal justice system. Reigion and politics in one thread is great. Snapshots: I was a republican when younger - Maturity, both emotionally and logically, turned me into today's version of a Liberal. Self centered politics IMO has no place in a government for the people. Religion is deeply personal and should remain that way. References to God never has upset me, nor influences me. The pledge inclusion is a non event and should be ignored (all this with one caveat - the inclusion of that line in the pledge was specifically ushered in by some very dangerous conservatives in the 50s that intentionally wanted to segregate this country into christian/nonchristian factions to easily identify the good guys. These conservatives labeled all Jews as communists and were responsible for America's own version of the 'dark ages'.) Most humor, to be effective, is offensive to someone. I prefer to laugh than cry. Giggle factor is the best barometer. Isn't it a shame that I cannot enjoy a trip to the bathroom without my reading glasses. Let's elevate this conversation and move on to sex... ------------------ Hwatkins

Well I have you beat - I grew up in nowhere Arkansas (Hamburg). My next door neighbor for the first 14 years of our life was Sam Pope - I don't know if you have been in Wynne long enough to have known Sam and his folks when they lived there from thr late 60s to the late 70s I believe. I suggest the trip to Memphis (or maybe Jonesboro) to look for Klipsch. Searcy is too far out from real competition, so you probably can't deal. At least in Memphis the sales person knows you will be able to go someplace else to buy another high end equivalent, so they will possibly deal. ------------------ Hwatkins

Yep - went through a stretch where I thought that was the next step in the newest and best. I have had Magnepans and believe that in my brief ML auditions they are very similar. First of all - I went to electrostatic because they could fit in my space. I remained a loyal horn fan, but found I did not have the right room for my true desire - Klipschorn or Altec VOT. The stats could fit in my space and I got a very good used deal on the speakers. My thoughts - first - stats require lots of 'good' power. They are not what can be described as efficient in the same terms as horns, especially compared to quality horns (expect to spend bunches on the speakers and bunches on equipment to support). Second - My ear says that the stats may well have the best mid frequency reproduction I have ever heard. They define seamless in these middle frequencies. Third - in the bass there are multiple ways the manufacturers have addressed - ML mostly uses a hybrid approach - cones for the low bass and ribbons for the rest. I think this is probably better for my ear than the Maggies. Bass reproduction is surprisingly good. Comparative - ribbons are much more dynamic (IMO) than cones for highs and mids. The stats are less directional than comparative horns and take the cone 'smoothness' to a different level. All considered though, I find good horns to still be crisper and quicker from the high mids to high frequencies - all this being done with greater efficiency and a significantly better price point. If you thrive on the sound of the mids - stats are a great way to go. I retired my maggies because I was trying to make them replace my desire for Klipschorns - that is a mistake. They simply are not the same sound as horns. That said, I really think that if you like the sound of cones, good stats take that sound to an extraordinary level. Geez- probably more of my opinion than anyone cares to hear.... ------------------ Hwatkins

Thanks for all the nice words, but I think a thing of beauty is John Albright's LaScala overhaul - both back to basics electronics and the satin, slide right off finish. One must never forget to look at Ed's tiger and set up. There are so many good things done by you folks - and you continue to be my inspiration - to make your audio as pretty as it sounds. It really is amazing how we can get so into this - it is so nice to have friends on the lunatic fringe... Oh, by the way, I really do like the way my setup sounds. ------------------ Hwatkins

Yes - the design is custom, however, I built it when I had an older center - would do differently now, but I will experiment with a box for heresy tweeter and squawker before redoing the cabinet. If you notice, the TV insert is ready for a larger TV, and I raised the TV so the sound would be a better match for HT and give me the corners for music. The Heresy in the ceiling (originally purchased in 1980) are the sides - I have some infinity minis in the nook to the right and behind the ceiling speakers. 40+ lbs. working in an attic with one near an eave was an adventure. I custom made brackets to set inside the joists to hold speakers with the joist as a support (3/4" plywood, 2x4 overhanging joists with long bolts and nuts for tensioning), then I simply set the angle with furring strips glued and screwed to the speaker. It is a very pleasant room, still lacking, but the open areas seem to actually enhance the bass and the Heresy make a great fill. ------------------ Hwatkins

Finally figured a way to ship pictures. Web1 is a view from behind main viewing area - Heresy II's in each ceiling corner of the cabinet, SVS 20-39PCi in left corner. Web2 is the SVS Web3 is my marvel of engineering - placing the Heresy in my ceiling - these are the side speakers and are generally directly overhead from where I took the Web1 picture. These are beautiful, look built in and didn't cause a divorce as was the original scare. Have fun. ------------------ Hwatkins

And the answer is --- 42. (Hirchhikers Guide...) ------------------ Hwatkins

I have both and as most know I stay with what I hear and only get to technial stuff when looking to upgrade, build or fix problems. So the hwatkins ear says: HII is little different in the tweeter stuff (if at all to my ear). Below that you get a more complete (better lower range?) and filling sound. As a standalone I think the HII is the better sounding speaker. All Heresy leave you with a desire to fill the lower end (at the woofer) IMO. I have added a much more 'musical' sub woofer and with an 80 HZ managed crossover have found that I will be keeping the Heresy pairs I have for some sort of inclusion in my will. Make that move and you will find either the Heresy or the Heresy II a very wonderful speaker that, IMHO, is perhaps the best bang for buck I have ever encountered. If you find the sound pleasing you can search for a pair of speakers in a price range that tops out at a $200 - $500 premium over the Heresy and not get near the same performance on the highs (granted, the bass will invariably be more pronounced on these speakers). I think that when you add the good sub you have to start looking at a higher price range for comparative evaluation. Gosh - that sure sounds like a biased hornblower approach. Oh well, without individual bias the world would be boring... ------------------ Hwatkins

1. What Heritage speakers have you owned, currently own, or want to own? I have three pair of Heresy - 1980, 1981 and 1989 HII. Mains and sides in HT/Music. Mains downstairs for music/TV 2. What was your age when you first purchased a Heritage series loudspeaker? The 1980 Heresy at 24 3. What is your current age? 46 4. Why did you choose Heritage loudspeakers over another Klipsch model? My first love of music in college was with some Altec Lansings, then I heard a friend's father's Klipschorns. Convinced my brother to buy (he had the corners) and have been a grand fan ever since. I bought the Heresy when I could put it with the equipment that made it worthwhile. I have searched for better (still have the Maggies - pretty good, but didn't win me over - just fit the space I had)and know that when I retire (looks like maybe about 4-6 years) the new (or second) house will have a room built for Klipshorns in each corner with a belle in the middle. 5. If you currently own some Heritage loudspeakers, and could purchase some more Klipsch speakers(new or used), which ones would you purchase? Why? Klipshorns as noted above. I will be making the attempts at a center to match the Heresy - hope I make it happen in a box to fit on top of RPTV as mentioned by someone earlier. 6. Do you think the upcoming Jubilee should become part of the "Heritage" line, since it was also designed by PWK? Yep ------------------ Hwatkins

Settle down boys!! 1997 BMW Z3, 5 speed, 2.8 Litre inline six cylinder. Boston Green , Tan interior, Tan top Extras: 17" Borbet wheels, Yokohama AVS Sport Tires, Dinan cold air intake, Dinan exhaust, Dinan stage 3 software, Strong Strut front tower brace, Butt Strut rear sway brace and fog lights. Car turns about 235 hp at the rear wheels (as much as I think this suspension should handle). One owner, 37K miles - driven like a sports car. Daddy owns the keys and negotiates with those that want to come out and play. OK - Forresthump - chime in about what the hell does this have to do with the forum.... Politics next week - I'll return in a few days with a report on the results of my tweaking the system (as you can see - I even tweak the car) ------------------ Hwatkins

My first of promised review of the SVS 20-39PCi. Setup is Denon 3802 with Heresy main and sides, AR2c center (frequent readers know about my quest here) and some Infinity fillers for rear surround. Unit arrived around 4 p.m. yesterday and was setup via VE disc by 6 p.m. SPL on DTS is around 75db for all speakers and 78-79db for sub. Sub crossover is disabled, speakers set to small and volume on sub amp is about 50%. The channel level for sub is set to -4db. I will run through the paces over the next several weeks, but here is the first impressions: 1. Solid performance all around without missing a beat in HT - Monster, Inc trailer was outstanding and crisp. The sound hit you in the chest on the door knock and falling to the floor. 2. Plenty of headroom. I, quite honestly, believe that one must be deranged to be able to bottom this thing out (especially in my configuration). 3. Music - Oh yes...I will be tweaking here, but this is a pure delight. Like the HT stuff - quick, clean and responsive. I really notice how badly my other sub struggled here. This baby clearly covers the low side with uncomplicated ease. A note - The Denon allows me to set separate channel levels for type of output - In stereo or direct I have to adjust the sub to 0db to get the desired effect. While I will be tweaking as I run this throught the motions, I do believe the ability to vary the channel levels by effect is an excellent match for this sub. After 3 hours of music sampling - this is an excellent match to the Heresy. 4. The need for two subs? I can't see it. The crossover from the sub to the Heresy woofers is very unnoticable, I cannot isolate bass to a specific point in the room and I cannot see how I would need to get better feel. Maybe room openings negate any standing wave problems - time will tell on this, but remember this is not a small room (I'd say medium). Finally - appearance. In my classic wood floor, cabinets and trim this unit is blatantly discerning. While fairly out of the way, it is a dominate presence. As to WAF - I got the same look from her that I got in her 21st hour of labor seventeen years ago - you know the one that said 'this is all your fault'. The sound will only partially win her over - a bigger room would do the trick. Pool side furniture shopping this week will ease the pain. 17 year old daughter loves it. Of course she is very nice to me because she wants to take the Z3 out on a date. I'll contnue to dangle that carrot until she tires of failure. Good stuff SVS - I will tweak and listen over the next several weeks in anticipation of a good follow on review - Admittedly I am replacing a crap sub, so the first accolades are easy. As to comparative, I can't offer that here, but as to price/performance (having spent enough money on this over the years) it is a great deal to this point. Specs tell me you would get limited return for much more bucks on most other's products - still think there are some closer priced units to review for purchase (Lord knows I did), however I am quite confident I will not regret this purchase for a match to my horns. Back to tweaking and more to come.... ------------------ Hwatkins

Very clear now - thanks boa12. It is as hoped - will start with small speakers then go from there. I shall return with more undereducated, inane questions..... ------------------ Hwatkins