henry4841

I bought two of these. I just did a complete recap and cleaning of this one. Always liked the Yamaha look of that era.

Just bought a Sansui 210 for restoration. Works as is and plenty power for 85db test speakers in small room. Just 10 watts also. Sounds good.

Gotta love the look of the Victrola. That thing brought many hours of joy to the original owner. Any old radio guys here. Pictures welcome.

I think I remember GI's talking about bringing audio gear back from their tour. Pretty common thing back then.

I did notice on the spec's supposedly from Carver that the power rating does not specify what rating it is using. Such as most now use RMS rating. My thinking is they are using the deceiving music rating. I am sure you have a very good amplifier no matter what. Best now since you have already purchased is to use your ears and forget about it and just enjoy it for it's lovely sound.

Does it really matter if you are proud of what you have? Please post pictures and keep this thread going. I personally like the aluminum faceplate, wood veneer cabinets of days past.

Doubtful the K33 ever achieves max extension with the slot in front of it making it a compression driver. From all that I have read PWK wanted the woofer to extend as little as possible via horn loading limiting distortion of said woofer. Forget the exact amount of extension normally seen from slot and horn loading. From all accounts the Eminence Kappa C is a good replacement for K33. At least that has been what I have read from members that have done so over the years. Good decent subs are cheap these days so this subject of LaScala needing a sub for low extension is not an issue. Most audiophiles will have a sub anyways with any speaker they own. Most of the time I listen without my sub. The bass it makes is fantastic beating anything else I have heard.

Bought an Onkyo TX-5000 for refurb and recap. Pulled output board to recap and the electrolytic Nichicon caps tested as good or better then the replacement caps I use. Since it works fine I decided to leave complete recap off. So much for all 40 year old electrolytic caps as being bad or going bad. Sure they are old and may fail but so will the sun one day. Probably has more to do with the quality of the Nichicon caps of that era.

Interesting and I believe you are correct. Never seen a crossover designed like that but what made me reconsider the design is the wattage of the 15 ohm resistor in the mids and the 5 ohm in the tweeter. Burning a lot of juice by their rating. Do not understand why they designed it the way they did but I am sure they had good reasons. Eat crow, not the first time though.

The crossover network is the brains of a speaker system. Deviating from what the engineers designed is not for the novice. Very very few individuals has access to an anechoic chamber for testing or the equipment needed to do so properly. Most of the time best to leave well enough alone. Changing parts will change the sound but one may not like what they hear. Crap shoot actually. I did experiment with different ones a long time ago and it took months and months trying 30 or more designs. Some I like better then stock but in the end I just put my AA's back in my LaScala's. No fancy caps or inductors either. Went with what PWK liked best motor run caps as well.

I agree with that but engineers have an obligation to their company to design circuits that work for as cheap as they can. Simple with few parts mean saving money. One reason autotransformer are no longer used for attenuation if 2 resistors can do the job just as good if not better. I think actually better.

Yep, a 15 ohm resistor is what is needed for attenuation. Something has to be missing. You did not read my previous post of how much attenuation that would be. Unrealistic amount. No way.

I agree with that statement. But there is one person that will disagree about how important after market x-over are and will keep posting and posting and posting.

OK guys you win and I am wrong and Dean is right as always. But I see no way a 15 ohm series resistor is used for attenuation. No mid driver that I am aware of needs that much attenuation. Most drivers I have seen are like 108db to 109db at most. A 6 db attenuation would use a 4 ohm resistor. A 9 db value of attenuation requires a 5 ohm resitor. Guys 9db of attenuation would bring a 109 db driver down to 100db but unless I am mistaken the db rating of a K-horn is around 103db so it only needs 6db of attenuation for a 109 db driver to make the mid drive compatible with the bass bins normal 103 db. I gave up trying to find how much attenuation a 15 ohm resistor would be but it would be astronomical. Basically this is where attenuation is needed. In the mid horn and the tweeter section to bring them down to the bass bins efficiency rating. This is the series resistor only. Forget about the parallel one. You cannot defy the laws of physics when you apply it to electronics guys. If Dean and other members think it can be done who am I to question what they think. I am just going to assume you are like Dean mboxler and believe one can just throw in a series resistor for attenuation and not have a parallel resistor to correct the circuit. A 15 ohm series resistor for attenuation is just not feasible. There is more to this crossover design we are not seeing. From what I understand Klipsch now holds their secrets close and do not share it outside of the company. This is a social media forum and not a technical one so you all can believe what you want. Guys I am not your enemy. Only posting what I have learned with 50 years of electronic repairs. I am not Deans competition so there is no need for members to gang up on me. The only authorized dealer for Klipsch crossovers now is JEM Performance Audio. From all accounts he is a technician and not a layman who will repair or replace your crossovers where they will perform as the engineers at Klipsch originally designed them without using exotic parts or replacing parts not needed.

Dean post the schematic you are referring to. I suppose the engineers could accomplish what you are saying but for the life of me I cannot understand why the would do so when the industry standard for attenuation for decades is just to use a discrete l-pad circuit. From my limited knowledge of electronics, 50 years or doing repairs of electronic gear, engineers design a crossover lets say for an 8ohm driver and then decided it needs attenuation. If they just add a lets say 8 ohm series resistor and omit the parallel resistor across the driver they have change their design to 16 ohm driver. 8 + 8 equals 16 ohms. But if they use ohms law of resistors in parallel they can add an appropriate parallel resistor to correct the resistance to the desired 8 ohm of the driver. All of this is just simple ohms law. This article explains it better then myself. https://www.electronics-tutorials.ws/attenuators/l-pad-attenuator.html This is the calculator I used years ago when I was playing around with different crossovers for my speakers. https://www.diyaudioandvideo.com/Calculator/DriverAttenuationLPadCircuit/ There are many online for free. If you know how they attenuated the crossover you are describing without using a discrete l-pad circuit I would like to hear it along with how they did it from you. It was not done by just adding a series resistor but had to be done in the circuit before it. For the life of me I do not understand why an engineer would do such a thing making it more complicated when a simple discrete l-pad circuit works just fine and is much more easy to do. Also you are showing an old motor run capacitor that has failed mechanically and not electrically. Of course it should be replace if it is leaking. That is the only circumstance I can think of where a film cap would need replacing. We have drawn the attention of Travis with our back and forth and to me this is not worth it.

I honestly do not know how many tube amplifiers I built that I have right now and you are right most are built with 5K OPT's. Just curious is why I asked because like I said most designs I have seen use 3K. I am using One Electron's and the one they offer for the SE 300b is 3K UBT-3. Not sure they are even in business anymore. Antique Electronic supply no longer show them available. Makers of OPT's are getting fewer and fewer.

I notice you used 5K output transformers instead of 3K ones. What is your reasoning for choosing that value? All the old designs I have seen used 3K. I ask for I am sure you had good reasons.

[Moderator Edits and Comments:For the love of Pete!!! I should send you guys (Dean, Henry) "to Guam. After All, this is just [audio]. Not singling out Henry here, I see there was some friendly difference of opinion in the previous page that seems to have led up to this post, but this one's a bit over the line. Additional moderator comments/ in this post below will be in brackets like this one] Dean [SNIP, rest of the sentence deleted. If you quote someone, or if you mention their name you need to be sure what you are saying isn't a personal attack or offensive]. You cannot use just a series resistor for attenuation. If you do you will change the impendence the amplifier sees. For instance if you have an 8 ohm speaker and add just a series resistor of say 3ohms for attentuation you now have an 11 ohm speaker. To correct this you have to add a parallel resistor to make a discrete L-pad which all speaker manufacturers to my knowledge now use instead of autotransformers. This is simple ohms law of resistors. Basically what the parallel "swamping" resistor does across the autotansformer of ALK's universal. That is those that do not use a variable L-pad which is what I think you mean by your above statement[ . . . . .] [Rest of sentence deleted]. [Next two sentences deleted as completely unrelated personal BS] Engineers design circuits send them to the factory where the executives hire people off the street who can follow directions and solder to assemble them. That does not mean the assemblers know or understand what is happening in the circuit. [Deleted sentence] The honest truth is that the crossover that came with [these] Klipsch speaker[s] will never fail in your lifetime to provide excellent sound. Simply the truth. As far as replacing capacitors I do not know of a technician or restorer of audio gear that replaces film caps. They simply last for decades and decades without deteriorating or changing value or ESR either to the determent of the sound. The only place you will hear any different is on this forum which was started years ago from those seeking to profit. [Many, many respected and knowledgeable people agree with you on that. One in particular, John Allen (designer and maker of the A-55G driver many here on the Forum love so much) told me exactly that. He apparently has golden ears (numerous stories of him hearing an anomaly of some prototype speaker in the Klipsch lab listening room (something like "sounds like you have a X db dip/hump at about Y Khz") confirmed to be exactly what he thought it was from sweeps in the chamber). I had the pleasure of sitting with him at lunch in 2016 and I asked him after how many years would he recommend changing caps in the Heritage networks he said "never." He said his 40+ year old networks were original and he would never change them because they didn't need changing and it would only compromise the sound. There are also many, many here that believe exactly the opposite. None of the people on opposite ends of the spectrum and everywhere in between have anything they are selling. They believe what they want to believe, they hear what they hear.] [Comment about ALK's comments on his website. Good grief. ALK has harsh words about everyone, including Roy Delgado (called Roy a liar, in this Forum when Roy was trying to help him understand something). That was why he was asked to leave the first time, which he did. Nobody else had anything to do with that. From there he went to AK, and a couple of other Forums and was promptly banned from those as well. He came back here a few years ago, and I quickly helped him find the door. Many in that thread (about an EE on the East Coast building an amp as I recall, Al came in to attack (bully) him), commented that they would never, ever buy a thing from ALK with the attitude he displayed. For the record, only one person got ALK banned from here, and that was Al. Some people left with him. Oh well.] [By the way, Al went to the first first ever pilgrimage ('04, 05?) and the group of visitors were taken to PWK's house to meet "the man." ALK started asking PWK questions about network designs, and talking about what he was doing, and . . . well, according to two Klipsch engineers who were present, PWK didn't think every much of Al or his thoughts and theories on networks.] [Harsh words by Al are considered by many to be an endorsement]. No trauma on my part because I do not depend on this forum to make a profit as you do. I do not understand how the people in charge of this forum can allow this to happen over and over again. I can leave and never look back not needing this forum to profit from it. I am sorry if the truth hurts anyone. [Not sure what "this" is referring to that happens over, and over again - statements that replacing caps is necessary after X amount of time? That X brand caps are the only way to go? We should lock/delete any posts that say the caps should be replaced? Or just that if they suggest that film caps should be replaced. I have zero technical knowledge, are those those yellow thingys on the wood blocks? Is it ok for people to suggest that those WWII surplus caps that look like tobacco cans and get rusty should be replaced? (Those are the motor run caps right? PIO?). OK, let's do that. Should I shut down any threads about cables making a noticeable improvement? How about I only allow comments that if you insist on changing your filament caps you can only post a recommendation to give the authorized cap replacement outlet, JEM (which I have pinned and locked to the top of this thread)? [Or are you referring to the swamping resistor/L-Pad issue naming convention? I can recall many threads about L-pads, some have taken an ugly turn, can never understand why. So we have to try and figure out who is right on that? That ain't ever going to happen with me at the wheel because other than knowing ohms law and what a resistor looks like, I don't know anything about circuits. I suppose I could drag Roy in here to settle the argument, but he will just say you all are boneheads, and neither is right, that Paul said it was a Z.] [If the "this" is that threads/posts on this subject always turn into personal attacks from one person towards another, I will take care of that. Post haste. [END OF ORIGINAL POST] [The truth is always welcome, along with a difference of opinion, another viewpoint, another approach, or whatever it is, as long as it isn't personal. As long as it doesn't deteriorate into an ad hominem attack when someone doesn't agree with someone else. This is beneath both of you. I have seen both of you, numerous times, provide useful information, and respectfully respond where you have a difference of opinion]. [Yes, many, many have sold their wares here over the years, that's certainly true. Roy dubbed them "peddlers." Bob Crites, Dean (for at least a time, not sure if he currently is or not), Greg, our amp building friend Craig, several others. Not really a lick of trouble except when if try and sell their speakers on here. The personal stuff just isn't necessary is it? Over a disagreement on a swamping resistor? I'm sure there is more to it to that, and it's entirely possible that Dean had an equally inappropriate personal banter, but I'm not going to go back 7 pages to figure out who started this (if it even started here), but you guys need to get over yourselves. I see that Bruce @Marvel has responded in here and @Edgar, I don't even need to look at their posts, even if they disagree with something, they know how to express it in a respectful manner. They are truly gentlemen, try and model yourselves on them]. @Deang and @henry4841 please continue with your opinions on this subject if you wish, just do it without replying, or referring to each other. You can each make your case without dragging the other in to it. @Deang, I'm not going to hunt down posts you may have made that contain personal things aimed at Henry, go back and edit them or delete them to get rid of it please. If either of you have any questions, comments or concerns, please PM me.. We are not going to have any further public comment on this. Is any of this helpful to the OP? Is he still alive? For Christ's sake it's Christmas, the Holidays. Peace on Earth and Good Will Towards All Men. P.S. They only thing I abhor more than personal bullshit, is people that get off on watching two guys sling personal arrows at one another. This would not be a good time for those not involved to comment.

Technical minded people do not stay on this forum long. At least those that say the truth about a subject that disagrees with one of their long term members. Admittedly things are starting to change with different moderators putting a stop to misinformation being spread on this forum. Instead of buying those boutique caps some sellers like buy Klipsch recommended polyester caps from their authorized seller. In my world engineers know best. Stock crossovers that Klipsch designed are more then adequate for outstanding sound. Rarely if ever does an inductor or autotransformer go bad in something as simple as a crossover. Heat is what destroys those components and crossovers have no heat to speak of. Film caps also rarely need replacing in any electronic product. Sure if you replace them your speaker is going to sound different. The case with different vendors as well. Crap shoot if you will like what you hear.

In other words you do not know. I do not know what I said or done to you for you not to like what I post. Truth maybe.

Guys I know how threads like these go on this forum. A seller of crossovers starts posting saying I know more about crossovers then any engineer so buy mine instead of his. All his friends then join in and try there best to run them off this forum. I have no dog in this fight. All the sellers on this site sell decent crossovers with quality parts so they should not have to "trash" talk a competitors crossovers. That's all I am saying.

What is the truth then since you think you know. Share it with others not so smart. What I see is an impendence correcting resistor where one can change the amount of attenuation on the autotransformer much as the second resistor in an L-pad circuit which now Klipsch uses for attenuation instead of an autotransformer. I fail to see how a resistor has that much effect, if it does not change the impedance of the speaker, on the sound of a crossover network. The autotransformer and capacitors and inductors have way more effect on how a crossover network works. I do not want to start the conversation all over about what Al calls a swamping resistor that has been hashed way too much on this forum. Hashed so much that many intelligent technical people just gave up on this forum and left leaving the ones that talk louder. I see absolutely nothing wrong with it technically speaking. I like the ALK universal crossover. Excellent alternative to stock crossover.

You are correct about that. Just as doctors and lawyers disagree when a bunch are in a room together. PWK had a badge for some of them. But when it comes necessary to believing someone on a social media forum or an electronic engineer I lean more to listening to what an engineer has to say. Electronic engineers design circuits technician's fix what they have designed. I built ALK's universal crossover from the schematic and thought it one of the best I have heard. Really like the fact one can change taps on the autotransformer to tailor the sound to your room. I can remember years ago those on this forum trashing what Al calls the swamping resistor in his universal. My thoughts were they just wanted to be important on a forum, not that they understood exactly what that resistor truly does.

Al Klappenberger is an engineer, if I am not mistaken, in frequency circuits who decided to sell Klipsch crossovers. Highly talented and is respected in his field. Highly opinionated but talented people as himself can be somewhat eccentric. This is not to say I like all of his crossovers but some of his designs are improvements over dated designs of the past. Self banned on this forum is what I am reading on is website. Worthy of consideration if one has to try and improve one of PWK's designs. But if it is not broken why try and fix it. Not a fan of steep networks myself unless there is a need for such. Sucks the soul out of the sound in my opinion.