heresy2guy

I happen to agree with the above statement; I've read more then a few complaints on this forum about that genre on the heritage lineup. I think it has to do with the fact that, overall, the heritage lineup can produce deep, clean, very realistic bass. But listeners of Rap & Hip Hop tend to want "boomy", "sloppy", or "exaggerated" bass to make their music sound "right". In other words, they want a kind of bass that the heritage line does not offer. As usual, the above is just my opinion - I don't claim it to be gospel - lol. Happy listening! -H2G

I think PWK hit the nail on the head with respect to the "audiophile" pie - a decent slice of it is composed of "audio-chondriacs"...the exact sort who, as PWK stated, are capable of rating a LIVE orchestra third, behind two artificial "playback systems" (i.e. amp, speakers, turntable, etc)!! But in the end, all that really matters is what sound you, the listener, enjoys most. If you can hear a difference from bi-amping and you like the sound, then why not simply continue to do it? -H2G <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

Okay...the above links seem to work. When you click on the image it'll load to your computer...then make sure you click on the image AGAIN, **after** it loads on your browser...this will really blow-it-up / super-size it so you can read it easily. As always, the DFH makes for entertaining and informative reading. -H2G

Hmmmm....that's strange. I've posted pics before on here and they've worked out fine. Perhaps it's due to the file size on these current pics (circa 550k each)? Regardless...I just posted them to an image hosting site on the web. I'll post the links below:

I simply took a few digital snapshots instead of scanning them; hope it suffices. -H2G

When I switch from my three-way speakers with horns producing the midrange (Heresy, La Scala) to my two-way speakers with cones (KG4) I always notice what you say about "the middle missing." <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I simply chalk it up to my own personal observation that the Klipsch two-ways (Reference, KG series, etc...) tend to produce excellent bass with excellent highs but are lacking in the mids due to the cones producing them. If you can recall the old graphic equalizers of the 70s/80s, the Reference and KG sound would be akin to the ubiquitous "V" shaped pattern, with the mids being at the bottom of the "V". On the contrary, if you're listening to Khorns, Cornwalls, Fortes, KLF30s, KLF20s (or other, well-rounded - sonically speaking - speakers from Klipsch), the mids seem as excellent as the highs and bass; in other words, no more "V" shaped EQ sounds! The problem with the Heresy and the La Scala (La Scalas depend somewhat on the music being played and their physical positioning, i.e. Craig seems to get very good bass out of his) is that they have excellent mids and highs but weak lower bass. In other words, they can sound as "uneven" as the Reference or KG series. The above is simply my own observations; like you said above, silversport - it's not a "scientific" test by any means. -H2G

Hi guys, I've never played classical music myself, but I love to listen to it, especially pieces with heavy violins [i.e. Meditation (Thais), by Massenet]. Personally speaking, (and since we're talking violins here) I've never heard them sound as real or natural as when played through my La Scalas (or Khorns); there are no cone drivers that can even come close to the sound that comes from the k401 midrange horn. As PWK said, midrange is where we live, musically speaking, and the graphs below confirm this: If you look at the instruments and their corresponding frequency ranges, you'll understand that most of the "action" is over by 2.5khz to 3khz. That's where the Reference series runs into problems, in my opinion, because they don't cross over from the woofer to the horn until approximately 1.7kh to 2.2khz or so, depending on the model. This means that only a small amount of the "music" is being produced by the horn - most of it is being produced by the cones! <?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /> I'm not trying to turn this into a heritage vs. reference debate; I'm simply offering some observations and facts from a fellow classical music lover. There's a h-u-g-e difference between sound produced by a cone and sound produced by a horn. It's a purely subjective issue, to be sure, but regardless of where you may stand on this topic, there *is* a major difference in sound presentation...one that's easily heard. If you like to listen to classical music, you owe it to yourself to listen to a speaker with both a horn-loaded midrange and a cone midrange before making a purchase. I have no idea which one you'll prefer, but you *will* hear a difference. Good luck! -H2G

Hang in there Craig. My father was diagnosed with advanced stomach cancer approximately one month ago; it's in the liver and various surrounding lymph nodes as well. It's terminal, of course. My uncle recommended this book to me - The Purpose Driven Life, by Rick Warren; it's based on Christian ethos and rooted in various scripture. I've read it in its entirety and (I know this may sound corny) I now take a different perspective on life; its helped me understand and deal with my father's scenario by helping me understand and deal with my own. Anyway, since it had such a profound, thought-provoking yet soothing effect on me, I thought I'd mention it. Warm regards, -H2G

I've got an old DFH (70s vintage, I think) where PWK officially recommends not biamping the heritage line (as it's now known). I can dig it up and scan it if anybody's interested. -H2G

standardlackierung studiostruktur, schwarz. andere ausführungen, zu definieren anhand von RAL, NCS oder Sikkens-farbkarten, auf anfrage. siehe beispiel links mit sonderlackierung _ http://www.stereo-lab.de/tractrix.html

HA! What a great slogan!!! [] -H2G

That's a nice invitation Steve - thanks for the offer. Unfortunately, I live in California so I can't make it (wink). Still, it was mighty nice of you ask. How's the weather there in VA this time of year - good enough for a outdoor bash? I'm orginally from the North East but have been living in Southern California long enough so that, during the daylight hours, anything below about 62 F is now considered COLD - lol.

Thanks for the links to the translators! After some experimentation (going back and forth from English to French and vice versa) I can say that they're a little rough around the collar. But they certainly seem to do the job well enough so that you can get a good idea as to what the person's train-of-thought / idea happens to be. Train-of-thought, by the way, is a good example of something that can screw the translators up - somebody in another country speaking another language might take the translation literally and not understand what they hell you're talking about - lol. It's best to speak clearly and concisely in order to afford somebody the best possible translation. -H2G

Oui, le traducteur semble avoir fonctionné. Je peux comprendre les remarques que vous essayez de faire. J'en ai fait expérimentant avec certains de ces traducteurs et elles semblent fonctionner mieux quand vous vous servez d'un langage simple sans aucun argot ou contraction. Je suis d'accord avec ce que vous avez dit au sujet du Klipsch La Scalas. Ils sont très réalistes et vous incitent à croire cela qui le symphonie ou la bande est exacte dans la chambre avec vous. J'espère que vous appréciez votre Klipsch La Scalas ! Au revoir !

Very true! Measurements only get you so far...amazing how somthing so similar on paper can sound so different in "real life." I'm pushing 34, and I don't think my ears are what they used to be!

My K77M fell off just as Bob's plot shows but not as fast. Of note: I couldn't hear anything after 15K Hz. -jwcullison ______________________________ JC, Did you mean you couldn't hear anything from both tweeters after 15khz due to your hearing (ears)? If so, and you never had any obvious trauma to your hearing (accidents), I wonder how many of us over 30 are able to hear past 15 khz, and how much does our hearing "slide" with age? Could it be that by a certain age, our upper-range of hearing (15-20khz) is pretty much shot? -H2G

Gil, What internet translator did you use? Could you post a link by chance? This could definitely come in handy... Thanks, -H2G

Here's some additonal direct links to the NAD PE amps and integrated amps: http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_3400.pdf http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_3100.pdf http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2400.pdf http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2240.pdf http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2200.pdf NAD's "big gun" with 100 wpc and 6 dbs of dynamic headroom http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_2100.pdf Here's some additonal direct links to the NAD PE receivers: http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7240.pdf http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7225.pdf http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7400.pdf http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7600.pdf 150 wpc but "only" 400 watts on peaks because it "only" has 4 dbs of dynamic headroom. http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7140.pdf (I have this unit myself. Picked it up from a guy on craigslist for FREE. He bought a new reciever because this one wasn't "working right". I took it home, put all new fuses in since two were blown, cleaned the switches, PRESTO!, works PERFECTLY.) http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_7100.pdf

Proton units with the high headroom were labeled DPD (Dynamic Power on Demand) while the NAD units were labeled POWER ENVELOPE. Look for model numbers with those terms after them and you'll be okay. For the record, the Proton and NAD units were virtually identical (must have been made by the same supplier/manufactuer). Biggest complaint most people had (including myself with my own Proton D940 reciever) was that the switchess/pots on the pre-amp section needed lots of cleaning. Easy to do, really - I had to do it with my HK 430 receiver too - but the typical user doesn't know this. Just make sure you take the knobs off and spray the cleaner into the pots from outside and then inside (take the cover off) and make sure you move the switches back and forth rapidly in order to clean the gunk out and to make sure the contacts get cleaned. Oh yeah...you'll wanna make sure everything's completely DRY before plugging it back in and turning it on - lol. Other then that, there's been no other issues or problems with those units in my experience or to my knowledge. some links: http://207.228.230.231/info/NAD_3240.pdf The above link was taken from this list http://www.nadelectronics.com/support/productinfo_framset.htm best thing is to browse the list and find the old 80s/early 90s stuff and look for the Power Envelope feature. Don't have anything for Proton, unfortunately, but their main products with DPD from that era were the D940, D540, and D1200. Hope this helps. -H2G

Proton and NAD had units in the late 80s with insane amounts of dynamic headroom (6 to 7 dbs). The Proton D1200 power amplifier, for example, was rated at 100 wpc but was able to put out 540 watts on musical peaks due to it's 7.3db of dynamic headroom. I have not come across another amplifer that has more dynamic headroom (7.3 dbs) per it's rated power. In fact, most ampliers have a paultry 1 to 2 dbs of dynamic headroom, which supports PWK's statement of needing 3 or more times (if I can recall correctly) the power you plan on using continously in order to secure the appropriate headroom to avoid clipping. I believe this is why he suggested that since the horn loaded Klipsch can take 100 continous watts you can therefore use 300 wpc or so amplifier to provide the necessary headroom to avoid clipping. Naturally, you shouldn't run said monster amp wide open but should instead keep it at or below the 100 wpc rating for the Khorn, LS, and Belle. How one could do this accurately and successfully without vu meters is beyond me. Perhaps that's why he urged extreme caution when using those monster amps. Or, you can simply buy one of the older Proton or NAD amps rated at 100 wpc and 7 plus dbs of dynamic headroom and forget about everything else. -H2G

That "largeness" or "realness" you describe is, in my opinion, due to the horn-loaded midrange. I've yet to hear a cone produce the sort of LIVE, RIGHT THERE sound that a horn can. The Heresy won't sound as big or quite as live as your La Scala (for the record, I own both), but it will certainly sound much more live and e-x-p-a-n-s-i-ve then an RF two-way speaker, again, because of that beautiful midrange horn. If you have a sub to go with the Heresys (which you say you do), then I'd settle for that combination over an RF any day, mainly, again, because of the midrange horn. But music is subjective; some people don't like that live sound and favor the laid-back (or dead?! - lol) sound often produced by cones. The best analogy I can give is that for me, when I listen to horn speaker, it's like I'm hearing the band right in front of me. When I listen to a conventional speaker (cone), I'm listening to a speaker trying to imitate the band. -H2G

"Now, that being said, the horn and tweeter, being smaller on the RF-83, does not, in my opinion, do as well of a job on the mid-upper range vocal extension as the RF-7." ________________________ The horn on the RF7s didn't come into play until nearly 2,000 hz, so to my knowledge, the mids were really handled by the cones, not the horns (the new RF-83 horn crosses over at about 1,700 hz or so if I recall). Hmmmmm. I think Mdeneen posted something on this topic some time ago. Hang on a sec and let me do a search. Okay. Found it. Here it is: 05-29-2002, 1:18 AM mdeneen Joined on 01-09-2001 Ferndale Posts 4,343 Re: RF-7s or Cornwalls I guess to add to the TBrennan logic, an RF-7 is not really a horn speaker, but rather a ccone speaker with a horn for a tweeter. So, whatever its redeeming values are, and I'm sure they are many, they should rightly be compared to cone speakers of whatever brand you like. If you don't have horns at least down into the midrange, there is simply no "horn-like" quality left to the sound. i.e. "All hat, no cattle!" All other nonsense aside, HORN drivers sound FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT than cones. And that matters not whether the cone is made from paper, plastic or crushed diamonds. Whether there is one cone playing or 16 cones. The entire principle of a compression driver is radically differenent than a piston driver, and you can hear that. The sound of both speakers mentioned is fine. They can each satisfy various tastes, but they are simply not "directly comparable" on the same scale. Likewise you can't directly compare a Linn turntable to a Sony SACD player. It doesn't make sense. "Old Hornies" as the term is used around here, simply hear a completely different "quality" to the sound in horn systems than you can ever get with cones. Just take a simple taste test: Find your favorite vocal material - record, CD whatever, then play it on a VERY expensive cone system - any system - even one costing $150,000 - Watt-Puppies, Grand Slams, whatever. Then play that same vocal on K-horns, Altecs, JBL horns, or Cornwalls. I'm not predicting which you will PREFER, but the DIFFERENCE in the "character of the sound" will startle you. Also, take a look at a frequency chart - - you know - where they plot what makes what sounds at what frequencies. You will see that at 2200 Hz, all the interesting dynamic stuff is over. So having a "horn" above 2200Hz is in my estimation nothing more than "window dressing" to say, "Hey guys, we are still in the horn speaker business!" Well, c'mon, not REALLY! You could replace that twinky little RF7 tweeter driver with any number of high-quality standard dome tweeters and the system would sound fundamentally the same. Because the fundamental quality of what you are hearing is those cones. Enjoy which every path you choose and good luck! mdeneen ------------------ Cheers Speakers: Altec 806/511 & 416 woofers Amps: Class A triode tube, MC2125, PL400 II, Dyna MK III Crossover: dBx EQ: White 4400 Preamp: Audio Research SP3 Sources: Dyna CDV-1, Parasound CD-1000, McIntosh MR-71 tuner Sources: Rega P3/RB300/Ortofon Kontrapunkt-b with Cream;Dynaco CDV-2; McIntosh MR-71; Kenwood KT-7500/APS mod Preamp: JuicyMusic Xtreme Amps: JuicyMusic pCAT (P); McIntosh MC-2125; Kora Galaxy Class A Speakers: Klipsch Belles w/DEAN G. Networks. Report