JoshT

Hi Wired1, I didn't realize that your dealer won't give you your money back, but I can virtually guaranty you that that is illegal. Here in Mass I'm quite sure it would be considered a deceptive and unfair trade practice with severe penalties. Once the dealer realized that the speakers are not available, and may not be indefinitely, they must refund your money. You didn't "contract" to buy the speaker with that knowledge. I doubt Klipsch would condone such conduct, and you should pressure them to call the dealer and undo the transaction. If Klipsch refuses, then you have a valid gripe against Klipsch. On the other hand, so long as there is full disclosure from the outset (which I gather was not the case with you), then I don't think you can blame Klipsch just because things might take longer than anticipated. --JoshT

I'm with Boomer9911. I think Monster makes decent cables at reasonable prices. I guess it depends on what you are comparing their prices to, but I like their M series interconnects and think they are a decent value.

Congratulations on your MM-5 acquisition rowoo!! I have a Rega Planar 3 in one system and the NAD 533 in the other. Over the past two years I have gradually started to listen to vinyl more than CDs. In my mind, there is simply no comparison. I remember my first CD -- Thomas Dolby's "The Flat Earth" which I bought in 1986 in college. My roommate owned the LP, which we listened to CONSTANTLY. I was sooo excited to now have a CD player. I popped in the CD, hit play and . . . two minutes into the song said to my roommate, "errr . . . this sounds a bit mechanical, eh?" He disagreed, thinking it sounded "cleaner," but I have never fully enjoyed CDs, despite the convenience factor. On July 4 I found a used copy of "The Flat Earth" for one dollar. Wow. My impressions of 15 years ago hold. It sounds A LOT better than the CD (and it ain't a bad CD)! Oh, yeah, your question. Unfortunately, I don't think any brushes are that great. I have the AudioQuest, the Hunt and the Discwasher. But I also own the VPI 16.5 vacuum record cleaning machine, which is a beautiful thing! Generally, if I buy a used record, I wash it on the VPI. Then later I use a carbon brush to reduce static and pick up some dust. If a record that is generally clean has a lot of dust, I use the Discwasher, since the carbon brushes pretty much just line up the dust. People get pretty nuts about this stuff though. I guess if I were to have only one choice, and didn't want to spend $$$, I'd get the discwasher brush. Enjoy your music!!! -JoshT

Wired1, With all due respect, while I would be annoyed having to wait for a product I've ordered, I just don't see what basis you have to complain about Klipsch's conduct. First, this bulletin board provides all of us with insights that very few other companies provide to their customers and potential customers. I tip my hat to Klipsch for devulging what other companies might consider to be trade secrets. Second, BobG and others have been totally candid with us. Do you think that Klipsch would intentionally delay the process of partnering with a new vendor of the Heritage series drivers? To what end? Of course Oosting is right -- if you don't want to wait, you can always buy used. I'm sure Klipsch appreciates that it will lose some sales as a result of the delays. I too am concerned about the future "purity" of Klipsch. I too am a bit skeptical of the new Reference line replacing the Legends. I want the Heritage to be available again -- like YESTERDAY -- just to know its there! But I trust they are not just sitting on their hands. I appreciate how you feel. I just think that lately this BB has turned into a forum of bashing Klipsch for everything. My $.02 --JoshT

I like Charlie's (aka Spider124) ultimate solution the best. Get a turntable, a decent cartridge and phono stage, and spin some LPs. Ahhhhh . . . two channel analog. And vinyl is educational too. Yesterday, I learned that spiders can get dizzy. I noticed a spider on the record, and turned the turntable off to avoid the little critter getting mashed by the approaching needle. The thing started to walk, wobbled, and walked in circles! I would not have experienced that with DVDA or SACD, regardless of whether they had digital outs or bass management. I must admit though, the little I've heard of SACD sounded awfully nice.

Actually, I was a bit surprised to see the cross over at 2200 Hz myself. I thought I read somewhere that the new horn on the RF7 could go higher than the tweeter of the KLF20 and lower than the midrange of the KLF20. If that is true, why not have the cross over at 750HZ or lower? If it were, than I would disagree with rgdawsonco, because I would argue that the new single horn in fact does the job of the KLF20's tweeter and midrange horns. But it looks like it does not, as it is cut off quite high. That is not to say I am picking sides here, but I wonder a bit what is the point of the horn if it only handles the highest frequencies?

I went by the local Tweeter to see if they had any of the new Reference Series speakers in stock. They didn't, which is fine. But when I mentioned the RF7s, the manager said, "Oh, you mean the RF5s. The wood veneer version of the RF3s." I said, "Well, I know the RF5s are coming out soon, because they are in your catalog, but I think they are more than just wood veneered RF3s. Also, I'm even more interested in the RF7s with the ten inch woofers!" Blank stare. So, I suggested he check out the Klipsch website. Blank stare, slight frown. IS IT REMOTELY POSSIBLE THAT HE REALLY HAD NOT HEARD OF THESE SPEAKERS, OR IS HE REFUSING TO ADMIT THEY ARE OUT THERE BECAUSE HE WANTS TO SELL PRODUCT TODAY, RATHER THAN TOMORROW? What a jerk! I've gotten that reaction before from others at the store. You mention anything from this website, and they get defensive and change the subject. UHG. I miss the days when Klipsch was sold by specialty audio shops, rather than A/V outlets like Tweeter has become. Not that I blame Klipsch, as Tweeter can push a lot of product, but it's too bad that there aren't high end stores selling this stuff too.

Tweeter is already advertising the RF-5, but not the RF-7, in its catalog. BTW, Tweeter's catalogs can be terribly inaccurate. They referred to the RB5 has having a 6.5 inch woofer. Very sloppy. Anyway, I am eager to go audition the new Reference ASAP, though I'll hold onto my KLF 20s for quite some time. Unless, maybe, the Reference will be offered in Medium Oak? I would recommend that for those of us who have oak furniture. Please?

I don't know about Klipsch's method of testing, but I doubt that the 30s go lower than the 20s based on what I've read and heard from may people, including BobG. I understand that by designing them to be more efficient and more dynamic, some bass response was lost. While I have no personal experience comparing the 30s to the 20s, I have compared the 20s to the 10s, and the 10s go noticeably lower. They are not as dynamic or efficient, and they are weak in the midrange, but they go lower.

I have owned KLF20s for almost two years now, and enjoy them immensely. I think they represent one of the greatest bargains in audio. Though they can be a bit unrefined at times, the dynamics and presence are so real and wonderful, it's hard to believe the price. But let me tell you, if you cannot aford KLF20s, or if they are just too darn big for your room, you cannot lose with the SB3s. I LOVE those speakers. A good friend of mine has a pair hooked up to an NAD C740 receiver and C540 CD player. Wow! All things the same, I'd chose the RB5s over the SB3s. BUT, The RB4s cost more than half again as much, and I don't think the difference between the two are that great. The SB3 is just a fantastic speaker. I think it ranks up their with the old Advents and old KLHs (in Henry Koss' days), but better. Could become a classic if marketed correctly. I haven't heard the SB1s, but I bet they are sweet too. Have fun and welcome! The Klipsch sound is a lot of fun!

LOL Doug! Actually, your answer was quite concise, yet thorough. Then again, some of my clients think I charge by the word, so . . . But thanks, that makes sense!

I am puzzled why receivers and surround sound processors have video inputs and outputs. I have my DVD component video cables going straight from the DVD player to the TV. Is there any reason to run them instead through the processor?

That's a good point, actually. The Legends have been around for quite some time. And the salesman at Tweeter did volunteer that they were not magnetically shielded now that I think of it. I wonder if B&W CDM1 or Nautilus series speakers are magnetically shielded. Not that they come close to the Legends for home theater, but they certainly are marketed for it.

Woah, that last post was a bit over the top, don't you think Forrest? Numbnuts? Sheesh. But, I do agree with your criticism. I consider myself lucky, frankly, in that for some reason my KLF20s do not interfere at all with my 32" Sony Wega. And they ain't too far away from the edges. But still, I freaked a bit when I realized they weren't shielded and waited to see if there would be a problem with the new T.V. I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that a speaker that is marketed for HT as well as music is going to be shielded. Just because the marketing material doesn't say they are not, does not make it an unreasonable assumption. The KLF20s and 30s are perhaps the best HT speaker for any price. I truly believe they kick the sh*t out of my friends' Thiels and Aerial Accoustics speakers, which were much more $$$ (like four and eight times as much, respectively, I think). I've never really bought the cost-saving argument in this particular case. It's like Rolex making a diving watch that isn't water proof. I see Klipsch speakers as sort of the 1960s muscle car of high end gear. They are really quite amazing, especially for the price. They can really trounce the competition, and in surprising ways. But they can also be a bit crude and tough to live with. And, no offense to the Heritage fans, but I think that has been the case since Klipsch has been around. I love my Legends, but I see why others hesitate to share the enthusiasm.

Oops, I just double posted by mistake. Let's see how much the edit feature will allow me to delete. BTW, Dean, it's been a long time since I've seen you here or at AudioAsylum. You still have the RB5s? I still wonder whether I should have bought the RB5s, or Heresys, and a tube amp rather than the B&W CDM1SEs and the little Krell monster, but I am enjoying the variety (Klipsch/Rotel in living room and B&W/Krell in bedroom). Regards, JoshT

Hi Dean, So, you are the one. I do remember someone putting that thought in my mind on this bulletin boardn quite some time ago. I must admit, though, that I bought them for the Krell/B&W combo in my bedroom, to tame some high frequency sizzle. I finally have the correct terminators for the B&W binding posts and will move them to the bedroom system soon. At 12 feet, the cables are a bit too long for the Klipsch system in the living room (the components are all off to the side of the speakers in the bedroom system, but are in the middle of the speakers in the living room). If still available at AudioAdvisor, I will get 8' lengths for the KLF20s in the living room, as my earlier assessment of them still stands. Imaging is improved and the bass sounds stronger. I like! Sorry to all who did not know about the boxes at the end. All MIT cables have them, and that is what they are famous for. I bought them because of many positive reviews, particularly from folks with more forward sounding systems, and because of the 30 day return policy. Ciao!

Clegar, I'm just wondering if you ever took mdeneen's advice about moving the speakers out a bit farther from the back and/or side walls? Really, you will be amazed at how different the speakers will sound if just moved inches, and that is FREE (unless you pull a back muscle moving those MOTHAHS). It took quite some time for me to find the right spot for my speakers (I am disabled, so I had to rely on patient friends, bribed with six packs of beer). Originally, they (the speakers, not my friends) were too close to the rear wall, and sounded a bit flabby in the low end, without any imaging to speak of. Then they were too far out, with nice imaging but no joy or grunt left. Finally, I found the right spot and the bass is truly great -- in MOST areas of the room. Remember too that where you sit will affect the spl of the low frequencies. Don't spend any more $$$$ until you have exhausted speaker placement! Mdeneen and I may disagree on the value of speaker cable, as I truly believe that my KLF 20s sound both stronger and more natural with MIT cables; but I agree with him whole heartedly that placement is absolutely crucial. I was not the slightest bit interested in experimenting with cables until I know the speakers were set correctly. Also, once they are positioned correctly, and ONLY THEN, you must use the spiked feet. They will tighten up the bass quite noticeably (but don't rush to that until you feel they are placed correctly, as they are almost impossible to move with the spiked feet in place). Remember, the 30s are not the 20s, and they will require a different placement. Good luck, DO THIS, and then let us know what you find. Regards! --JoshT, living in Eastern MA

Well, James, I guess I LET THE DOGS OUT, eh? I really just wanted to share an experience with others, not start a contentious thread. But perhaps I was being naive -- cables and burn in seem to cause fierce debates here and at AudioAsylum and AudioReview. Eeee Gads! Actually, discorules and DPonder each raise intersting points. The whole pyschoaccustic factor. I have no doubt that what one thinks he or she is hearing can be influenced by what he or she is told or sees. I also admit that some days my system sounds better than other days. Is it the mood I'm in? I think probably yes, though some would insist it's because the electricity is cleaner at some times of the day than others. Who knows? But these are not necessarily "new phenomena," as Mdeneen suggests, but rather old, established, though admittedly debated, topics. I will reiterate, though, that I do hear a difference between the MIT cables and the pair they replaced. And the difference was not a good one at first. But the sound of the cable changed rather dramatically over the course of a few weeks. I don't know why. For those who claim cables make no difference, I say you are wrong. Maybe I cannot convince you, but you certainly cannot convince me. Heck, many nay sayers insist that AMPLIFIERS (at least ss amps) don't make a difference in the sound of a stereo system (only speakers and turntable cartridges), and they too can cite anecdotal evidence. But I can tell the difference between, say, a Krell and an NAD immediately. Ah well. The debate continues . . .

Nah, Tweeter is the only show in town for Klipsch unfortunately, and they either do not discount at all, or very little. No negotiating either. They use their "price protection" as an excuse, which don't mean anything when you are the exclusive regional distributor! I like Tweeter alright for electronics, but let's face it, it's a big, faceless chain with a lot of really bad sales personnel who pretend to know more than they do. Of course you may luck out and get a good salesman, but he won't be able to do much for you. It's like going to Chilis or some other dreadful national chain restaurant. You're stuck with what corporate headquarters provides, no matter how good the waiter. Too bad. When it was founded in Cambridge, MA in the 1970s (?) it was a nice, small, high-end store. Then it started gobbling up stereo stores, regionally first, then nationally, went public and . . . well the rest is history. There is a place in Worcester that you might check out, but I know nothing about em.

Congratulations HipCheck! NAD makes awesome surround sound receivers as I understand. What the heck, I'm all for multichannel products if their stereo sound is top notch too. Foost, HipCheck is out in Michigan. Did you mean to address your question to me, a Bostonian? I would recommend Goodwins Audio on Commonwealth Ave accross from B.U. (now called Spearit Sound technically, though not by any of the salesmen) or, if you have buckets of $$$$$, Goodwins High End on Main Street in Waltham (no affiliation to Goodwin's Audio, hence the recent name change). There is also a place called AudioLab in Cambridge that I have heard is very good, but I have never been there. It's in The Garage mall on JFK Street. Ciao! P.S. Go Eagles! Go Crimson! (I CAN root for both, since one is Hockey East and the other ECAS)

I meant . I can't put a finger on why either, mdeneen.

TheEvan, Well, I guess we have a member of the "cables make no difference school" among us. With all due respect, I find people who make such a claim just as tiresome as those who insist that amplifiers make no difference, or that burn-in makes no difference. Of course a lot of people enjoy telling others what they can and cannot hear. That is what has made folks like Mtrycrafts so famous on AudioReview (uhg). Arrogance abounds. I'm not that easily persuaded. I'd rather trust my ears than what others tell me I can and cannot hear. --JoshT

Ever since I bought my KLF 20s in June, 1999, I have wondered if I could tame the high end and strengthen the bass of the KLF 20s. I love the speakers, but at times felt the bass could be more authoritative and the upper mids a bit tamer. But overall I was always pleased. Also, I have read post after post about speaker cables here and elsewhere without anything really grabbing me. I ordered a pair of the MIT Terminator2 Biwire cables from AudioAdvisor a couple of weeks ago. Even at half off, they are around $200 a pair depending on length, and that doesn't include the ICONN connectors you have to buy. I got them for my bedroom system, which also sounds a bit "hot" at times, but the spades I ordered wouldn't fit the fat B&W binding posts. So, I figured, what the heck, I have to burn them in anyway, I'll try them on the KLF 20s until the new spades arrive. I hooked them up and was appalled by how bad they sounded. I'd been warned that MIT cables require a long burn in time, but was ready to send them back. The bass was stiff and weak and the mids and highs rough. Over the past two weeks, however, they have been totally transformed. The bass is now stronger than ever before with these speakers. It's amazing how they have changed. A friend who was over when we first hooked them up, and who had not been back since, came by today and was amazed to hear them. Anyway, I now find the speakers a bit warmer and the bass fuller and just as tight. I am still going to move these MITs into the bedroom system, because the lengths are too long for my Klipsch system. But I may order a shorter pair for the Klipsch. Too bad about the long burn in, and high cost, but has been worth it in my opinion. I'm interested in others' experiences with the same or different speaker cables. What are people using and what are the sonic qualities?

The Rotel tuner is the RT940AX

Hey Hipcheck! How about those BC Eagles beating UNH last night! Err, the Harvard Crimson, now, well, they have hit hard times I remember in the mid to late eighties they would win almost every game they played. It was always great to go watch them play. Sigh . . . I would say go for the C340 and the $300 Rotel tuner (I think it's the 940 something, but their ain't more than two I think, and one is more like $500, so you won't have a hard time finding it). The NAD tuner, though I have not heard it, got trashed by What Hi Fi Magazine. The Rotel got a better, though not excellent review. To my ears, the Rotel tuner sounds quite a lot better than the tuner built into to C740 (which I think is the same tuner as the C50). I'm listening to Celtic music now on WBUR, but am too lazy to get up and look at the model number (actually, I have a disability which makes it a bit of a pain to get up and sit down repeatedly). The sound is sweet, smooth and warm I find. A great tuner for the price. Also, if you later go for five channel separates, they may not come with a tuner. Cables? Uhg, a huge topic. I have Monster M350i on my tuner, which I think is a fair compromise between high end and entry level. After all, it is only a tuner. For the CD player, I have Monster M850i, which are a bit pricey but sound quite rich and detailed in my opinion. I don't know, cables aren't something that excites me too much, so long as they are decent quality. There are just too many brand to keep track of. You could try the Transparent MusicLink RCA Super interconnects. They are $500 a pair new, though, so you'd have to skimp on everything else. Of course, you might find a pair used for ONLY $250 -- a hard bargain not to pass up! NOT! The Monster 350is, which are decent, are more like $30 a pair, which is still not cheap! Good luck with your hockey team this weekend!