HornEd Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 Here's a subwoofer question that might belong in the technical section... but the bottom dwelling mavens, like TV, tend to look here first. Having had a pair of Ultras from the very first batch, I have had time to try them in various ways. But I thought of a way I haven't tried and would like some advice as to whether I should. What would happen if one Ultra stood on the floor and the second ultra was in the same corner, inverted against the ceiling... leaving the vents to vent toward one another? I don't know... but it sounds interesting... and, boy howdy, would that be a lot of umph from a little footprint? What say you? HornEd =========================================== Caution: Brain MUST Be Engaged Before Shifting Into EAR! =========================================== "Where Klipsch Legends Cavort Six Ways to Someday!" FOREGROUND SOUND STAGE: KLF 30's: Left Main, Center Main, Right Main SB-2's: L & R Front Effects on 5' sand filled columns BACKGROUND SOUND STAGE: KLF 30's: Left Surround, Rear Effects, Right Surround LARGE MOUTH BASS: Twin SVS CS-Ultra subs, Samson Megawatt Amp KLIPSCH SPEAKER SUPPORT SYSTEMS: Mitsubishi RPHD1080i 65", Yamaha RX-V3000 Receiver Toshiba Pro Scan 6200, Toshiba Pro 6-head SVHS W808 in constant homage of the Eternal Tweak! Music Respite Room: Vintage Cornwall's in Transition Klipsched Class "A" Motorhome: On the road testing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 7, 2002 Share Posted February 7, 2002 That's a interesting idea. How much space do you plan on having between the port end of the subs? I wonder if having the ports facing each other would have a cancellation effect? I also wonder if you would notice the Bass up towards the ceiling, where the upsidedown sub would be. I'm not much help, am I? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 8, 2002 Author Share Posted February 8, 2002 No, Mike, but at least we have the same questions. SVS uses the floor like a ground plane... it stands to reason that the ceiling could do the same for the inverted sub. I suspect that a baffle plate would be needed between the two subs to divert the waves... similar to the one at the base. Generally, bass-experts, like Tom Vodhanel, have urged me to put multiple subs in the same corner to avoid cancellation... so there ought to be a way around the problem. Sure hope some real experts show up pretty soon. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 Al K has brought up the same thing, about subs being next to each to prevent cancellation. Or having them next to the mains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig6519 Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 WOW HornEd, I sure love that center channel, how does that T.V. support it? I've always wanted to do that. Craig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 8, 2002 Author Share Posted February 8, 2002 Craig, I had intended to put some kind of hinged plate down to spread the weight and provide a better aiming device. But, I was so eager to hear the center that I just put it on top to see what would happen. The big Mitsu has had no problem with it. I still expect to add a plate downstream. Try it Craig... you will more than like it! HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig6519 Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 We'll HornEd, when i finally get back to the states in 5 months after 17 years overseas i'll try it. That's if i can find another pair of 30's. Oh yeah i'll need one of them there BIG T.V. thingy's too Craig ------------------ Klipsch KLF30 Mains (OAK) Klipsch KLF-C7 Front Center (OAK) Klipsch KLF-C7 Rear Center (Awaiting 6.1) Klipsch KSP-S6 Surrounds Dual SVS 20-39CS+ Sub's (coming soon) Samson S1000 Sub Amp Yamaha DSP-A1 (2)Acurus 200x3 Yamaha MDX-793 Mini disc Yamaha TX-492 Tuner Sony CDP-C701ES 5 disc Player Sony S565D DVD Hitachi MX6080EM Muli-system HI-FI VCR Hitachi 29" T.V. Denon DP-37F Turntable This message has been edited by Craig6519 on 02-08-2002 at 03:24 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 HornEd - Over at the Home Theater Forum there was a guy who did indeed stack SVS subs on top of each other. Here is the link: http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=12910 ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 8, 2002 Author Share Posted February 8, 2002 Hey, thanks EQ... that answered some questions and raised some more. Building that "Tower of Power" had the cooperation of SVS's Tom Vodhanel and it is stacked one on top of the other... and not inverting the top sub to take advantage of the ceiling as a second ground plane... which should give a free power boost. It certainly bears some investigation. TomV, if you're lurking about, how about a comment or two? Like what would you suggest for a mechanical join between an inverted sub on the ceiling and a right side up sub on the floor? Ah, the grand questions in the life of a bottom crawler turned ceiling walker... HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch-daddy Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 HornEd, That is the worst looking ht setup I have ever seen. I would be down right depressed to have that massive tv,klf-30's, svs subs etc.... Ha!!!!! Just joking. That is one bad *** looking setup. And the sound, I bet is breath taking!........ ------------------ Home Theater: Yamaha RX-V1000 Klipsch RF-3's Klipsch KSC-C1(LOOKING FOR A RC-3 OR RC-3II) Kenwood KSV64 Bipolar Speakers Klipsch Subwoofer KSW-12 Television: TOSHIBA THEATER VIEW 50" DVD Player SONY S-360 CD Changer CDC 585 5 Disc Yamaha Philips Pronto ts-1000 monster cable interconnects/12 gauge speaker wire This message has been edited by Klipsch-daddy on 02-08-2002 at 04:54 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montigue Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 I think Ive seen HSU research do the same thing with their subs. It must work Monty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVodhanel Posted February 8, 2002 Share Posted February 8, 2002 You don't want the ports to face one another...but having the two driver as close together as possible would be of some benefit. Ideally, you'd have the *top* CS_U oreinted normally.(with the driver at the bottom) And you would flip the bottom CS_U upside down. You'd have them baseplate to baseplate this way...and connecting those togehter could be done in various manners...fairly easily I would reckon. The only tricky part would be making a baseplate assembly for the port end of the bottom sub(the sub that is upside down. If you remove the grille(but not the grille mounting ring)...you could find/make a cylindrical *stand* that would fit snug against the outside of this grile ring. Then, you'd have to trim holes in this stand to allow the port to vent into the room. In this design, as each driver moves into its enclosure...they will also be moving opposite ways. So driver reactive forces will tend to cancel and any non linear issues in the driver motor will work against one another which might help to reduce even order harmonics. (in theory, this works...it practice...well...) It might be time to sell the CS_Ultras to a friend and let me build you a autographed custom ICBM HornEd. 30" diameter tube maybe 6ft tall. 4 long throw 12s...and one huge 15" flared port. Run a Crown K2 bridged(600w per driver)...might be a plan? TV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 There ya go, HornED! Major Subbage!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 9, 2002 Author Share Posted February 9, 2002 Indeed it might be a plan for a new residence that is in the offing, TV. What kind of specs could I expect from an autographed ICBM? Does stacking the subs take away from the "free" ride multiplier effect that comes with the proximity of the floor? Frankly, I think I did better when I had the Ultras flanking the mains... but I am still tweaking. Don't get me wrong... it's been wonderful getting to first and second bass... I'm just pushing for a perfect game. I was thinking about having a custom steel or aluminum ring made that would allow me to keep the port cover on and have the ring fit the shoulder just outside... and then have three feet that extended up the sides to embrace the second Ultra. Of course, if it makes more sense structurally to use the inside of the ring, I can do that too. I have an artist friend who builds large, prize winning, metal sculptures. I may commission him to build a far out subs holder... his style is very whimsical and esoteric. Like a bluesman with a soulful face thumping on a floating keyboard... all made out of shaped steel. At least it will be solid! His work now goes for more than the cost of the subs and I helped him get his start. This may get very interesting. By the way, TV, I have always believed that deep bass demanded leather furniture... and now I have a quote from a V.P. Acoustical Engineering, Floyd E. Toole, Ph.D., "Oh yes, leather upholstered furniture is also a membrane absorber, and also provides vibratory sensations to stimulate the audience. H-m-m-m." My oversized, glove-leather, smack-in-the-middle of the sweetspot LazyBoy is a favorite spot for the neighborhood kids... especially with the recliner extended. BTW, TV, did you get a chance to see the KLF-30 Center speaker in the above photo? Since so much sound is poured through the center speaker in 5.1 and above, the three KLF-30 front mains are a dream... a dream set to "SMALL" that dovetails exquisitely with the Twin Ultras... and brings out their best. Congratulations to you and your associates on your continuing success... HornEd This message has been edited by HornEd on 02-09-2002 at 03:30 AM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 TV, Now you are serious about sub bass! Did you finish the sub,how does it perform?Drivers used? The Ultra's drivers or the new SVS SS drivers? Try these monsters(look a bit like the driver in the SS...more linear and peak to peak,plus these are 15"!) http://www.mtxaudio.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/RFL.cfm These brutes are dB drag racing competition monsters,with two or three ICBM's you should be able to break over 135dB's in a large room.With the help of a few large Crown's. Sick sick HornEd, Nice little system HornEd,the center is original,I am thinking about buying another pair of RF-7's,want to change the front board and have a custom high density board made.Should be great to have three pairs of RF-7's. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 9, 2002 Author Share Posted February 9, 2002 Thanks be to TheEars for the astute observation that an RF-7 with a redesigned motor board is destined to be something really worth talking about... three RF-7 Mains cuddling with a big screen... awesome to say the least. It should put that renowned Reference accuracy and detail in the place where it takes raw power and more to excel... the center channel. But you gotta be pulling our collective ears and legs on the URL for the LOUDEST sub in a car... they even put in their specs that their monster is NOT ABOUT QUALITY SOUND... Thanks but no thanks, "theears"... I get too much of that kind of ear pollution passing by on the streets of San Francisco. And thanks for your continuing efforts to inject humor and controversy into our humdrum lives... it just that this sub offering was a tad over modulated. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEAR Posted February 9, 2002 Share Posted February 9, 2002 HornEd, Finally,someone with a sense of humor! Yes my posts are full of TYPOS and sometimes sarcasm. More often then not I am very direct and love to punch some in the same place over and over.Like B0$e owners who think they paid for quality sound(its MARKETING and legal brainwash!).And owners of little amps who claim bass is weak on the RF-7's(ITS NOT). I like the idea of six identical speakers,the RF-7's mains sound great and clearly outperform the RF-5's. I am going to moveRF-5's and get two pairs of RF-7's.One RF-7 will be converted into a RF-7C,or the center channel from hell. I will have to buy the new Toshiba 16/9 HDTV,my tiny 27"(yes I use a 27"! LOL)will not support such a massive center(around 90lbs,maybe more,I want a 1" thick front board!).The RC-7 I have right now sits on rubber feet to prevent caving on the poor little TV. I say never skimp on the center speaker,a great center is a must in any great system.The RC-7 is a bare minimum to enjoy full scale performance. TheEAR(s) Now theears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted February 10, 2002 Share Posted February 10, 2002 You guys remember that article about Bose that Justin posted? I printed it out and gave it to my Foreman where I work, A big BLOWS fan. I hope this will bring some sense to him. THANX! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HornEd Posted February 10, 2002 Author Share Posted February 10, 2002 Well guys, I bought the pieces I need to build an 84" dual Ultra SVS tower. I am looking to see if the drivers working in opposition really create the advantages that are theoretically possible. I'll let you know in the next day or two. HornEd Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seb Posted February 10, 2002 Share Posted February 10, 2002 Oh my Lord, he is a ctually going to do it!!! PLEASE don't forget to post pictures, oh Horned one! Can you imagine that? The Ultra Totem with KLF-30s ALL AROUND!! The Home theater from HELL!! I canNOT wait to see this... ------------------ Bass is good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.