RockOn4Klipsch Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 why does analog and digital audio sound so much different? Maybe it's my setup or the DAC's in one or the other. I upgraded from an onkyo 805 to a stage one and 2005 combo, I have a cheap 25 disc player by pioneer that I use for CD's (looking to upgrade), I also have an xbox, ps3 and a cable box that i've used to listen to music. The pioneer sounds great (RCA connections in direct mode) with the stage one, seems to be fuller on the lower end but doesn't loose the mids or high much. When using the digital out from the xbox or ps3 (pcm) the lower end seems to shrink and the high end becomes more pronounced. When using my cable box on the music channels (both pcm and dd 2.0) the sound is similiar to that of the xbox and ps3, seems to lack in the lower end, when I hook the cable box up with RCA and put the stage one in 'direct' mode wham the low end becomes fuller again. What's the deal? The direct mode on the stage one sounds great but when in stereo it does an A/D conversion and seems to loose some of the low end? Anyone else seem to notice these changes when listening to analog vs digital signals? I've grown up in this "digital" age but I think I'm starting to like the analog sound better. is there any reason the 2 should sound so completely different because IMO it's like I have 2 different systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 What are you calling analog sound? Do you have an analog source or are you comparing digital inputs/outputs, some of which may have various A/D or D/A conversions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Remember, it all starts as analog and it all comes out as analog............. anything less is not true to the source! Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Are your speakers changing from large to small when changing yourinput source? That would account for a drastic change in low frequencyresponse and could also explain the apparent rise in high frequencyresponse (less bass and more highs sound like the same thing). Good digital gear is completely identical sounding to good analog gear. Infact, I prefer to think of digital as a subset of analog...in otherwords, all digital signals are always completely analog. A "digitalsystem" with a noise floor of 100dB has more resolution than an "analogsystem" with 90dB. That means the final analag voltage from the digitalsystem is more accurate than that of the analog system...a finer stepsize than the analog system if you prefer to put it that way. Thetradeoff is limited high frequency extension, but it's already abovethe audible passband... So all that to say, digital and analog should sound the same. That'snot to say that digital can't be screwed up in ways that analogcan't, but I doubt it's screwed up digital causing your problems(unless the D/A stage on your Onkyo is crap). Keep in mind that many ofthe settings on the receiver will result in the sound being digitized,even when sending in an analog signal...so you might be comparingdigital to digital (with extra conversions on the middle). There is also the possibility that your Onkyo might have some sneakyfilters built in to exagerrate the effects of the direct mode. It'scrazy though because I usually have the experience than direct modesounds dull and lifeless and a little lacking in the bass....probablycuz some cheap decoupling caps are being used (though I've never pulledthe lid to find out for sure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 You probably have a crossover setup in your pre-amp (L/R set to small) and that is being bypassed in direct mode. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 "Remember, it all starts as analog and it all comes out as analog............. anything less is not true to the source!" The problem with thinking like that is that analog is of course also an analog of the original. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 All of those fine words mean nothing, unless you are playing it all through digital compatible speakers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 All of those fine words mean nothing, unless you are playing it all through digital compatible speakers... I know that's not what you meant, but I think digital signals sent to active speakers is the future of uber high-end audio....so would that be digital compatible? [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 Are your speakers changing from large to small when changing your input source? That would account for a drastic change in low frequency response and could also explain the apparent rise in high frequency response (less bass and more highs sound like the same thing). Good digital gear is completely identical sounding to good analog gear. NO NO NO !!! It Ain't so!!! In fact, I prefer to think of digital as a subset of analog...in other words, all digital signals are always completely analog. A "digital system" with a noise floor of 100dB has more resolution than an "analog system" with 90dB. That means the final analag voltage from the digital system is more accurate than that of the analog system...a finer step size than the analog system if you prefer to put it that way. The tradeoff is limited high frequency extension, but it's already above the audible passband... So all that to say, digital and analog should sound the same. But it don't!! That's not to say that digital can't be screwed up in ways that analog can't, but I doubt it's screwed up digital causing your problems (unless the D/A stage on your Onkyo is crap). Keep in mind that many of the settings on the receiver will result in the sound being digitized, even when sending in an analog signal...so you might be comparing digital to digital (with extra conversions on the middle). There is also the possibility that your Onkyo might have some sneaky filters built in to exagerrate the effects of the direct mode. It's crazy though because I usually have the experience than direct mode sounds dull and lifeless and a little lacking in the bass....probably cuz some cheap decoupling caps are being used (though I've never pulled the lid to find out for sure). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 You just haven't heard good digital yet (or should that read good analog?) [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I think digital signals sent to active speakers is the future of uber high-end audio....so would that be digital compatible? Have you had a chance to hear the Meridian active speakers? Meridian seems to have the closest thing to an all-digital signal chain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 No, but I just checked out their website...very cool. Now to find a company that does the same, but with horns [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Coytee, My digital speakers go to 11! Thanx, Russ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators dtel Posted January 15, 2009 Moderators Share Posted January 15, 2009 OK Coytee i have a serious question...........where did you find that gif ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 That crazy azz forum Max touted last year has some interesting smiley thingies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Richard Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I think digital signals sent to active speakers is the future of uber high-end audio That's exactly what's happening with recording studio monitors. Genelec and others sell active monitors with AES/EBU inputs. If near-field speakers are what one wants, they are out there. http://www.genelecusa.com/products/2-way-monitors/8250a/ Compared to some high-end audiophile speakers, pricing is reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 OK Coytee i have a serious question...........where did you find that gif ? Arky is right. I got it here http://hifitalk.forumotion.com/index.htm Not necessarily a place for those easily offended. Now show us what you like Christy to do to you when no one is looking.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockOn4Klipsch Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 DrWho, Speakers stay on "Large" when going from one input to the next, the processor stores each source input settings into memory. I've went through and verified the speaker settings, levels, cross-overs and size, everything is the same when going from "direct" to "stereo". From my understanding the Stage One does an A/D conversion when the source input is an analog connection and set to "stereo" and does no convervison when the "direct" mode is selected. The "direct" mode sends the signal to it's "audiophile" quality analog preamp with no alterations, I prefer this mode as it sounds much fuller. The stage one sounds great with it's D/A and A/D conversion but the sound is completly different from one another, maybe it's shotty DACs in the CD player and in the Cable box but none the less sounds much different to my ears aswell as others who have listened to it. Could it just be that the analog pre-amp in the stage one is doing that much different of a process than the digital side to evoke such contrasting sounds ? I have never been a big fan of the "direct" mode for 2ch listening on other recievers because of the same reasons you stated, lack of bass and sounding dull, the stage one is 180 degrees in that respect, then again it could be the DACs of the devices I'm using aswell. I wondered if others had these same thoughts/experiences if anyone ever comes to the Omaha NE metro area is welecome to stop by and hear the difference for themselfs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Are using the digital output on your CD player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockOn4Klipsch Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 no, i'm using the analog out via the cd player, no digital out on the CD player, when I use the digital out on the PS3 or the xbox the sound is way different than the analog outs on the cd player. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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