greg928gts Posted February 3, 2009 Share Posted February 3, 2009 I am just starting the process of building tractrix midhorns for my own Khorns. The design is for a 2" driver mounted to a wooden pure tractrix expansion horn with an Fc of 258Hz. The best thing is that these will fit under the Khorn tophat with no modifications. The BMS 4591 drivers will fit nicely, and they can be crossed over at 400hz like the original K55's using the stock crossovers or any of the upgraded crossovers available. I'll be using ALK Universals. EDIT - The stock A or AA crossovers will not work with the BMS drivers, see below - EDIT The construction will be of plywood, and I will build the horns right into the front baffle as one piece, including the side blocks. Once the grill cloth is on, it will look exactly like a stock Khorn. The horn is 24" wide and offset to one side to allow room for the stock K77 tweeter, Bob Crites replacement tweeters, or my favorite, the Beyma CP-25. Inserts will be provided so tweeters can be switched anytime. I'm posting this now, before I even have pictures of the finished product, and before JC does any testing on them, because I want to see if anyone here is interested in buying a set of these horn/grills for their Khorns. I expect the price to be about the same as the ALK Trachorns. It's a lot easier to build these in bunches than to build a pair at a time. If I get the sense that someone else may be interested in buying a set of these, I'd build more than the two pair I'm planning on right now. I will post pics as soon as I have something to show. Please give me some feedback. Thanks Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 feedback.... I'm thinking about a 24X24 inch version...something like a mini k-402. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 4, 2009 Author Share Posted February 4, 2009 feedback.... I'm thinking about a 24X24 inch version...something like a mini k-402. Cake. I just don't think it's right for me to advertise this on the Klipsch forum. EDIT - I don't know though, it would be an upgrade to Jubilees, no different than an upgrade to Khorns. Hmmmmm. - EDIT Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossman Posted February 4, 2009 Share Posted February 4, 2009 How do you mount the Beyma CP-25 tweeters inside the Khorn cabinet? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 I haven't done it yet, but it will be like the Trachorn. There will be a recessed area just deep enough so the front of the horn is behind the grill cloth. The tweeter will set to the side of the mid horn. I plan to make it so the whole motorboard can be flipped over if someone wants the tweeters on the outside, or same side, etc... Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossman Posted February 5, 2009 Share Posted February 5, 2009 Does it require any modifications to the crossover? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 5, 2009 Author Share Posted February 5, 2009 Does it require any modifications to the crossover? If I can get 16 ohm BMS 4591 drivers, no mods to the crossover will be necessary. Still waiting for US Speaker to get back to me. EDIT - Even with a 16 ohm driver, which I was not able to get, I don't think the A or AA crossovers will work, I think one would need ALK Universals, or something like that. I would recommend those anyway, before I would recommend my horns - EDIT Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 I have some new information regarding the crossover. I asked Al K about this, and he told me that the A or AA crossovers are balancing networks, not really crossovers. In other words they work with the specific driver/cabinet combinations in our Klipsch speakers, not independent of them. So according to Al K, an actual crossover network is required when changing to a different driver than the K55. Therefore, I would recommend at least a ALK Universal type network to be used with this 2" driver and tractrix horn upgrade to the Khorn. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Should I use a round to square transition, or keep the throat square? Edit - there will be a transition in the motorboard. - EDIT Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 I used epoxy wood putty and it worked great for smoothing out the square throat. But wouldn't this decrease the area of the throat, and is that a problem? Or does the sound out of the driver shoot right by that anyway, since the driver is round? Maybe the smooth transition cuts out early reflections and produces a better sound? Edit - NO, this is wrong. I dug this putty out of there. The transition will occur in the motorboard - 1" thick, 2" round to 2" square. - EDIT EDIT - sorry for all these EDIT's, as you can see I'm learning as I go through this process and I want to keep this thread updated. - EDIT Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Here's a picture of what is used on the ALK Trachorns. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 " I asked Al K about this, and he told me that the A or AA crossovers are balancing networks, not really crossovers. " I could see why this could be said of an A or AA.....but if you have an AK-2, AK-3, AK-4....I would double check since the later have more crossover network qualities Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ki Choi Posted February 16, 2009 Share Posted February 16, 2009 Hi Greg: I am also intereseted in your 2" horns. What would be the price for a pair of unfinish just wood horns without the tweeter section? I am thinking Beyma CP750ND would be a nice match as two-way set up. Would you have provision for CP750ND mounting? Ki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 16, 2009 Author Share Posted February 16, 2009 Ki - email me about the horns. The Beyma CP750ND is a very nice driver, but the recommended crossover point is 800Hz, especially if used as a two way driver where you need the high end extension, so it will not work with the Khorn bass bins, which cut off at 400Hz. I don't know about the horn I'm buildng and how it would work as a two-way. I don't think it will provide the high end extension. What I would do for a horn for that driver is a 600Fc horn, but I would look for a way to extend the mouth wider somehow. Maybe a hybrid horn of some sort. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 "I have some new information regarding the crossover. I asked Al K about this, and he told me that the A or AA crossovers are balancing networks, not really crossovers." A crossover is just a dividing network and needs to provide the proper attenuation levels to "balance" the output of the drivers. The Type A is a simple electrical first order, and people use modified versions of that network to drive all kinds of things. I sure hope Al didn't say they're "not really crossovers", which would be an idiotic statement. The BMS is a very well behaved driver, and would undoubtably sound very good with a low order filter and little if any correction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Klappenberger Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Dean, Have no fear! I was talking ONLY about the Klipsch designs. The first order network you have been building is a true constnat-impedance multiplexer (crossover). I was also trying to give Klipsch credit for NOT calling them crossovers! The A and AA and all the rest of them have no components restricting high frequency energy to the squawker. All they do is "ballance" the levels. I.E, a "balancing network". Al K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatever55 Posted February 18, 2009 Share Posted February 18, 2009 Ki - email me about the horns. The Beyma CP750ND is a very nice driver, but the recommended crossover point is 800Hz, especially if used as a two way driver where you need the high end extension, so it will not work with the Khorn bass bins, which cut off at 400Hz. I don't know about the horn I'm buildng and how it would work as a two-way. I don't think it will provide the high end extension. What I would do for a horn for that driver is a 600Fc horn, but I would look for a way to extend the mouth wider somehow. Maybe a hybrid horn of some sort. Greg Would this driver work with the jubilee's in place of the k-69 ? What mods if any ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 18, 2009 Author Share Posted February 18, 2009 Ki - email me about the horns. The Beyma CP750ND is a very nice driver, but the recommended crossover point is 800Hz, especially if used as a two way driver where you need the high end extension, so it will not work with the Khorn bass bins, which cut off at 400Hz. I don't know about the horn I'm buildng and how it would work as a two-way. I don't think it will provide the high end extension. What I would do for a horn for that driver is a 600Fc horn, but I would look for a way to extend the mouth wider somehow. Maybe a hybrid horn of some sort. Greg Would this driver work with the jubilee's in place of the k-69 ? What mods if any ? You don't know how loaded a question that is!!! The answer is, I think it would work really well with the right horn. And I want to tell you, it's very difficult for me not to say any more than that!!!! Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkalsi Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Hey Greg, Just bumping this to the top - any updates? Care to tease us with more pics? D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted February 23, 2009 Author Share Posted February 23, 2009 OMG! I just listened to them. No time right now, but I'll post more pics and details later. Gotta get up at five tomorrow morning. Wow. Everything I had hoped for. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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