fini Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 So far the LP's look good but there's quite a bit of surface noise, which I don't know the cause of. It's worth it just to hear something different and get some musical education. Michael, did you clean the record first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Ok, so the little piano 'run' at the beginning of Bach's Prelude in Dminor is what is used by the keyboardist for Ritchie Blackmore's (Deep Purple alum) 'Difficult to Cure' live piece, which borrows quite a bit from classical numbers including that 'Jesu Joy of Man's Desire' (or whatever that's called). WOW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 So far the LP's look good but there's quite a bit of surface noise, which I don't know the cause of. It's worth it just to hear something different and get some musical education. Michael, did you clean the record first? shut up Fini! of course, just Discwasher and fluid, don't have one of those fancy jobbies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Turns out I'm in for a great musical education. Apparently clavier refers to any number of stringed instruments played with keys like harpsichord, clavicord, pianos of all ages. The 'well tempered' part is about the writing style. This series of works is kind of a primer on various keys and starts with Cmajor moving through each key in turn using Preludes and Fugues to illustrate the various tunings of the instrument Close. It actually refers to the tuning of the instrument rather than the writing style. Yes, clavier or klavier can refer to any keyboard instrument, though the harpsichord often comes to mind first.You can read about the WTC in Wiki. The main point was that if one tunes a keyboard/piano to sound perfect in one key, other keys will sound out of tune! It gets worse as one plays in more and more remote keys. If C major sounds perfect, F-sharp major (6 sharps) will sound very bad. The only way to get around this is to compromise the tuning so that all keys sound more-or-less OK, but none of them perfect. The standard practice is to detune all keys about the same amount, although some tuners will make common keys slightly in closer tune and let the rarest keys go to heck. So, what Bach did was to demonstrate that by using an "average" or "mean" tempering of the tuning, pieces written in every imaginable key would still sound OK. He goes through the cycle -- C major, C-sharp major, D major, etc. Apparently he was the first, or one of the first, to do that. He may have intended some keys to be in better tune than others, hence the slightly mysterious "well-tempered" in the title. Quoting from Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well-Tempered_Clavier): Bach's title suggests that he had written for a (12-note) well-tempered tuning system in which all keys sounded in tune (also known as "circular temperament"). The opposing system in Bach's day was meantone temperament in which keys with many accidentals sound out of tune. (See also musical tuning). It is sometimes assumed that Bach intended equal temperament, the standard modern keyboard tuning which became popular after Bach's death, but modern scholars suggest instead a form of well temperament. There is debate whether Bach meant a range of similar temperaments, perhaps even altered slightly in practice from piece to piece, or a single specific "well-tempered" solution for all purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 The main point was that if one tunes a keyboard/piano to sound perfect in one key, other keys will sound out of tune! It gets worse as one plays in more and more remote keys. If C major sounds perfect, F-sharp major (6 sharps) will sound very bad. The only way to get around this is to compromise the tuning so that all keys sound more-or-less OK, but none of them perfect. The standard practice is to detune all keys about the same amount, although some tuners will make common keys slightly in closer tune and let the rarest keys go to heck. VERY interesting! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Thank you Larry, I was hoping you'd help out. Now I understand better. I'll liken it to photography. At a faster shutter speed, the lens has to be more wide open, so depth of field is shallower. There seems to always be a trade-off. I'm not much of a trained musician but it seems that this is a physical shortcoming of an instrument as the traditional musical scale is applied to it? Am I to take it that on a piano work of Book1 then, that the piano is tuned in such a manner that the scales on the wings if you will sound as good as the major and simpler scales? How does one even being such an undertaking? This surely is some mastery of scales beyond most mortal's comprehension. At any rate,its a pleasant enought collection of preludes and fugues and the lessons are a bonus. It makes for interesting listening at the simpler scales might be thought of as more 'relaxing' and the complex needing more active listening, therefore the listener is lulled at first, then becomes more involved in the musical piece as it continues. Just a theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 OK... here's the deal on the CD's... long story short, they were given to me. They were going to put them in the yard sale and I told them I'd be interested in them if there were any left. I wanted them to have an attempt to salvage any value out of them that they could... instead, they really insisted I simply take them and after bantering about for a few minutes, I finally agreed to. So... I've got these CD's and I've been going through them. About half have so far, been stuffed into my collection as something of interest. I'll dig into them a bit more slowly over time. I can always get rid of them later if I decide they didn't meet my initial expectations, These listed below are those that for what ever reasons, had zero interest to me so here's the deal: I went back through this thread to try to find indications of interest so that person could have first refusal. Otherwise, I will give these away to anyone that wants them... all I'd ask is reimbursement of shipping. Here's the list as it currently stands: I tried to include the cd number on the spine to help any research someone might want to do. Who Artist Title Type Number 10,000 Maniacs In My Tribe CD 9 60738-2 Colter Aimee Mann (MFSL) Lost in Space SACD, CD UDSACD 2021 Alanias Morissette Jagged Little Pill CD 45901-2 Colter Ambient 2 (Harold Budd - Brian Eno) The Plateaux of Mirror CD 7243 8 66497 2 0 Colter Arild Anderson Group Electra CD ECM 1908 9824337 Ben Samuelson Art Ensemble of Chicago Live in Paris CD 302 061 383 2 Batagraf Statements CD ECM 1932 987 1461 Ben Samuelson Beetles Abby Road CD CDP7464462 Beetles 1 (as in "one") CD CDP 7243 5 29325 2 8 Beetles Help! CD CDP 7 46439 2 Bossa Nova, Stan Getz Jaxx Round Midnight 12 CD 314 557 400-2 Don Cassell Music Pals CD Local, "bluegrass" with Chris on it Iro Haarla Northbound CD ECM 1918 987 0377 Colter Jacob Young Evening Falls CD EMC 1876 B-0003022-02 Dave Mallette Jan Garbarek, The Hilliard Ensemble Officium CD ECM new series 1525 78118-21525-2 Jentsch Groupe Large Brooklyn Suite CD FDSJ 57987 Jimmy Scott All the Way CD 9 26955-2 Los Lobos (MFSL) This Time SACD, CD UDSACD 2024 Colter Nat King Cole (Tivoli Audio) The King of Sound SACD, CD TM-SACD9006-2 Ornette Coleman Quartet Ornette! CD R2 73714 Paramount Pictures presents! The Godfather CD MCAD-10231 Colter Peter Gabriel Passion SACD, CD SARWCD1 Colter Peter Gabriel Up SACD, CD 069-493-536-2 Stephen Hartke Tituli, Cathedral in the Thrashing Rain SACD, CD 4761155 Colter Steve Kuhn w/strings Promises Kept CD ECM 1815 B0000238-02 Dave Mallette Stile Antico Music for Compline SACD, CD HMU 807419 Colter Sting Brand New Day SACD, CD B-0002428-36 Tal Farlow The Swinging Guitar CD 314-559-515-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 lovely double post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 So far the LP's look good but there's quite a bit of surface noise, which I don't know the cause of. It's worth it just to hear something different and get some musical education. Michael, did you clean the record first? shut up Fini! of course, just Discwasher and fluid, don't have one of those fancy jobbies Neither do I. I get excellent results from a Disc Doctor brush, homemade fluid, and Costco microfiber towels. OK, now I shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLSamuel Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Richard, I'd love to have all the Beatles as my collection is lacking. I'd also be interested in the Ornette Coleman Quartet and Jimmy Scott (for some reason the name sounds familiar), the Stan Getz, and Los Lobos. And the Weather Report though it looks like maybe you've decided to keep it. Even the Alanis Morrisette and 10,000 Maniacs. I've no idea about some of the other ones. I'm starting to get greedy... but I like trying new music and for the price of shipping 1 or 2 worthwhile discs would be cool. I'd even take the Dan Cassell with Chris playing on it if its mostly instrumental though maybe you'd want to keep it. Not really interested if much bluegrass singing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 The photography trade-off is similar. No, it's not a physical shortcoming in the instrument, and it can't be affected by how it's played because the tuning of the piano's or clavier's strings is already there and the player can't alter it. (This differs from string instruments btw, because the string player can adjust his/her pitches slightly by moving finger placement on the string. Professional violinists will do a little "perfect temprement" on the fly to make 2- and 3-note chords sound purer than if a piano's notes were exactly replicated.) The idea behind the WTC is that every scale (in theory) would sound equally good and/or equally bad. However, if "well-tempered" actually meant some keys were a little more in tune and some a little more out of tune, then some would sound better than others. That's not done ordinarily, although I wouldn't be surprised if some players specialize in doing that! The whole subject of tuning is very complicated and different theories abound. Too complicated for me, and the differences are mostly very tiny or inaudible to most. I am not familiar enough with the WTC to say if vigor or relaxation are key-related. BUT, the group of 24 pieces (actually 48, because he did a second set later in life!) are first-and-foremost a fine musical composition, so that Bach would have written them as a musically logical whole, making the sequence of pieces sound musically right. Just like we expect succeeding symphony movements to sound "right" to us and incomplete if any are left out or substitutions brought in. Although I guess Bach was interested in numerology, I don't think he followed a totally rote key-based formula. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 I'd even take the Dan Cassell with Chris playing on it if its mostly instrumental though maybe you'd want to keep it. Not really interested if much bluegrass singing. I've got a couple CD's with him playing on them. One for sure I'm going to keep. Most of the others though.... are simply not my cup of tea. Trust me...if they make this list, I've got zeroooooooooooo intention of keeping them, even if it means tossing them. Not to disrespect any listings here... I just prefer the others so far, over these. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Updated list... this batch is almost gone. I have EASILY this many more cd's to go through so there will be more. I just haven't gotten to them yet. Who Artist Title Type Number Ben Samuelson Art Ensemble of Chicago Live in Paris CD 302 061 383 2 Ben Samuelson Beetles Abby Road CD CDP7464462 Ben Samuelson 10,000 Maniacs In My Tribe CD 9 60738-2 Ben Samuelson Alanias Morissette Jagged Little Pill CD 45901-2 Ben Samuelson Beetles 1 (as in "one") CD CDP 7243 5 29325 2 8 Ben Samuelson Beetles Help! CD CDP 7 46439 2 Ben Samuelson Bossa Nova, Stan Getz Jaxx Round Midnight 12 CD 314 557 400-2 Ben Samuelson Don Cassell Music Pals CD Local, "bluegrass" with Chris on it Ben Samuelson Jimmy Scott All the Way CD 9 26955-2 Ben Samuelson Los Lobos (MFSL) This Time SACD, CD UDSACD 2024 Ben Samuelson Ornette Coleman Quartet Ornette! CD R2 73714 Colter Aimee Mann (MFSL) Lost in Space SACD, CD UDSACD 2021 Colter Ambient 2 (Harold Budd - Brian Eno) The Plateaux of Mirror CD 7243 8 66497 2 0 Colter Arild Anderson Group Electra CD ECM 1908 9824337 Colter Jacob Young Evening Falls CD EMC 1876 B-0003022-02 Colter Nat King Cole (Tivoli Audio) The King of Sound SACD, CD TM-SACD9006-2 Colter Peter Gabriel Passion SACD, CD SARWCD1 Colter Peter Gabriel Up SACD, CD 069-493-536-2 Colter Steve Kuhn w/strings Promises Kept CD ECM 1815 B0000238-02 Colter Sting Brand New Day SACD, CD B-0002428-36 Dave Mallette Jan Garbarek, The Hilliard Ensemble Officium CD ECM new series 1525 78118-21525-2 Dave Mallette Stile Antico Music for Compline SACD, CD HMU 807419 Mark The Police Ghoset in the Machine SACD 069-493-605-2 Mark Weather Report Black market CD CK 34099 Mark Wilco Yankee Hotel Foxtrot CD NONESUCH 79669-2 Mark Peter Gabriel So SACD, CD SAPGCD 5 Batagraf Statements CD ECM 1932 987 1461 Iro Haarla Northbound CD ECM 1918 987 0377 Jentsch Groupe Large Brooklyn Suite CD FDSJ 57987 Paramount Pictures presents! The Godfather CD MCAD-10231 Stephen Hartke Tituli, Cathedral in the Thrashing Rain SACD, CD 4761155 Tal Farlow The Swinging Guitar CD 314-559-515-2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Richard: Put me down for these in addition to the other two: Jentsch Groupe Brooklyn Suite CD FDSJ 57987 Stephen Hartke Tituli, Cathedral in the Thrashing Rain SACD, CD 4761155 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted March 3, 2009 Author Share Posted March 3, 2009 Having never shipped CD's before... does the post office have little CD type mailers? If so, can I ship up to 12 in a single one? How about 9? 4? (those are the quantities so far for individuals) I'll try to go by post office today and see what kind of boxes they have. I'd appreciate any ideas from someone who's already done this so I don't have to recreate the wheel. (searching for the EASY button) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Nothing easier than USPS, faster, or cheaper. You can get all sizes and shapes of Priority Mail boxes at the PO, including CD mailers. For multiples, get the 2 lb Flat Rate Box. 2 lbs is quite a few CD's. Most will arrive in two days, and, while I forget what they are going for at the moment, I always use the 2 lb flat rate for almost anything. Even easier button: Take a few minutes to set up a credit card account on the USPS site. It keeps all your addresses in a file, your card info, and all you gotta do is tell it what rate you want. It prints the postage (I use UPS labels which happen to be the perfect size) and it spits it out with a reciept. It also will email notification to the recipient that a package is on the way. Heck, I think it's a LOT easier and cheaper than UPS or FedEx, and generally as fast. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Richard, I'd be inclined to use the small fixed-rate Priority box for 1-3 cds, or a larger regular box for more. For very large quantities, you might go with Media Mail. Either way, I'd add a good amount of packing material. Lots of places ship cds in bubblewrap envelopes. Those are the ones that usually arrive with cracked cases... http://www.usps.com/prices/priority-mail-prices.htm http://www.usps.com/prices/media-mail-prices.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Yeah, like Dave said.[] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colterphoto1 Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 yes, Media Mail is a special rate that was invented for heavy stuff like books. Cd's qualify. Please some packing material so the cases aren't all destroyed. I'll ship ya a big box of bubble wrap if you need some. M Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 If it's convenient and suits you, I'd prefer Priority. It's faster, they handle it with more care, and since I'm reimbursing the postage I don't mind paying the little extra. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.